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Thread: The Swordmage [PEACH]
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2018-05-25, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
The Swordmage [PEACH]
The Swordmage is my favoirte class from 4th edition, and I've been trying to figure out how to convert it to 5e for a long time. I think I've finally stumbled upon a collection of numbers and features that captures the essence of the Swordmage as I played and remember it, and want to see what you guys here at the Playground think.
I wrote a lot of this in the wee hours of the morning, so if there are sleep-deprived grammatical or syntax errors, please let me know so I can fix them.
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LD3kFEEPSvRg0152Prd GM Binder (uses Markup, so variable success regarding formatting)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oED...ew?usp=sharing (PDF on Google Drive)Last edited by WarrentheHero; 2018-05-26 at 01:38 AM.
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2018-05-25, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
I can't read it. Half the pages are cut off.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2018-05-25, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2018-05-26, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
Minor note-include ASI in the ability write-up.
Dimensional Cleave references "Marking"-that's not a mechanic in 5th edition.
Ah, I see-other abilities mark creatures. That's... Dimensional Cleave sucks, then, because you have to use SEVERAL other limited abilities before it becomes worth using.
Improved Swordmagic is very strong-I'd move it to level 11, which is when most classes see a big power bump.
Energy Theft is just plain neat. I like it.
Total Aegis should specify what happens if you're wielding a one-handed weapon.
Mark of Assault is significantly too powerful.
Actually, the entire Assault subclass is too strong.
Flame Cyclone sucks, since you have to target yourself with it. Overall, Ensarement feels a little weak, but much closer to balanced than Assault.
Mark of Shielding doesn't quite work-generally, you mark ENEMIES, not allies. This interacts badly with, say, Dimensional Cleave.
Ward of Brilliance feels a touch too strong.
Overall, I like it... Mostly. It feels a little unfocused and a little too strong in some areas, but with a little workshopping, I think it'll be good.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2018-05-26, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
1. One of the things that come up to me is there is a lot of potential to stack damage. Just from Improved Swordmage magic alone you are dealing more damage than anyone else at this point and even for a fee more levels.
2. There is a lot of little pools of resources to keep track of and could be difficult. As such finding a more concise mechanic would help everyone looking at this class and playing.
3. So much of the class deals with combat and damage it has no room for utility.Last edited by Amnoriath; 2018-05-26 at 08:52 AM.
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2018-05-26, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
I usually don't, since everyone pretty much knows what it is, but if you think it makes the class look better I suppose I can.
Dimensional Cleave references "Marking"-that's not a mechanic in 5th edition.
Ah, I see-other abilities mark creatures. That's... Dimensional Cleave sucks, then, because you have to use SEVERAL other limited abilities before it becomes worth using.
Improved Swordmagic is very strong-I'd move it to level 11, which is when most classes see a big power bump.
Energy Theft is just plain neat. I like it.
Total Aegis should specify what happens if you're wielding a one-handed weapon.
Mark of Assault is significantly too powerful.
Actually, the entire Assault subclass is too strong.
Not sure about the rest of the class, besides bringing Dual Lightning Strike into once/day. In my eyes DLS is like a Fighter's 11th-level Extra Attack, but limited in the number of times per day, and that you can't hit one target three times; DLS must be used against a second creature, and must consume a Swordmage Step. So I figured it was maybe weaker than the 3rd Extra Attack, and that with the name lent itself to a bit of extra lightning damage.
Dragon's Teeth isn't supposed to be used for damage; it's a deterrent. It forces enemies to choose between focusing other targets and suffering, or engaging you. I can roll back the damage, but I like the idea that the aggressive subclass has a built-in "FIGHT ME!" mechanic.
Hellspike Assault is definitely a strong one, but I love the idea of just becoming this teleporting monster slicing up your enemy. It does end if you miss, of course. I could reduce the maximum number of attacks to 3, maybe? Or keep it as-is but turn it into an Action to prevent comboing it with Extra Attack/Imp. Swordmagic. Maybe specify that you can't use Flourishes with it, but that was part of the cinematic badassery I envisioned it with.
Flame Cyclone sucks, since you have to target yourself with it. Overall, Ensarement feels a little weak, but much closer to balanced than Assault.
Mark of Shielding doesn't quite work-generally, you mark ENEMIES, not allies. This interacts badly with, say, Dimensional Cleave.
Ward of Brilliance feels a touch too strong.
Overall, I like it... Mostly. It feels a little unfocused and a little too strong in some areas, but with a little workshopping, I think it'll be good.
One thought that I had is to convert some of the subclass abilities into Flourishes. It might be weird to grant Flourishes at 6th level when the base class gets them at 7, but there's a precedence with that for College of Lore Bard, which gets "Additional" Magical Secrets at level 6 and the base class gets them at 10. It might make Ensnarement better by increasing the number of times it can use its abilites, and weaken Assault by reducing the number of times it can use Dragon's Teeth and Dual Lightning Strike.
I mentioned this earlier, but Improved Swordmagic is pretty much the same as War Magic, at a later level with more restrictions, though it doesn't lose a bonus action. I think I can/should restrict it tsay that you can't use use a Flourish on the same turn that you use Imp. Swordmagic. That prevents some of the damage-stacking.
2. There is a lot of little pools of resources to keep track of and could be difficult. As such finding a more concise mechanic would help everyone looking at this class and playing.
One thing that I've considered towards this end is converting some of the Aegis subclass features into Flourishes. It doesn't mean you don't have to track them, but it means they're tracked on the same paradigm. Dragon's Teeth, Dual Lightning Strike, Sweeping Frostblade, and Flame Cyclone could all be Flourishes. The Aegis of Shielding features are more along the lines of passive buffs so wouldn't really be good conversions into Flourishes without changing the features completely.
3. So much of the class deals with combat and damage it has no room for utility.
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2018-05-26, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
You're a little overly invested in 4e style abilities where saves were the defacto measure of a spell's duration, and seem to be forgetting that 5e makes concentration a huge thing. Swordmages get to stack effects like nobody else.
And in the name of simplicity, most of the feel of a swordmage could be built with stuff that already exists. If you're playing a fighter, especially one who obviously plans to become an EK, swapping heavy armor proficiency for warding should be a reasonable ask as an ACF. After that you might have to wait a few levels, since most of the 4e Defender concept is currently wrapped up in the Sentinel feat. Pick up the swordmage inspired cantrips, grab War Caster so your Sentinel powered OAs can hit hard (and possibly the Sentinel powered defender-ish reactions, depending on DM interpretation), and both Weapon Bond and Arcane Strike are baked into the package. Not to mention whatever other swordsmanship enhancing spells you might have.
Because I'm not even going into how swordmages make better arcane scholars than wizards, or how Spellbender's Gift can force the enemy's weapons to all take on a particular elemental aspect which your super defendery self can exploit by having an ally cast Protection From Energy on you. Or ask how marking interacts if a swordmage picks up Sentinel. I'm going to instead point out that if a decent approximation can be made from base game materials, it's usually better to use that as your baseline.
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2018-05-27, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2018-05-27, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
Of course, but to do this right you need to bear down on what this is about. As of now there isn't a lot of reason not to pick up heavy armor proficiency and going with it. Additionally your step feature consumes your movement getting to the point where you can't use it all. On top of all that marking isn't at all a standard thing in 5e. I say penalize the use of heavy armor, open up weapons, adopt a ki point like system, and its own marking mechanic.
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2018-05-27, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: The Swordmage [PEACH]
I would also be more selective on how intelligence applies to the attack. Replacing it not only limits you from heavy weapons but it needs room to spread and buff its stats. Focusing on intelligence in a gish build could prove to be a susceptible character.
Last edited by Amnoriath; 2018-05-27 at 09:33 AM.