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    Default [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Rizban's Revised Third Edition
    Spoiler: Table of Contents
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    —• Introduction
    ——• Project Goals
    ——• Design Paradigm
    ——• Credits and Acknowledgments

    —• Races
    ——• Human
    ——• Dwarf
    ——• Elf
    ——• Gnome
    ——• Half-Elf
    ——• Half-Orc
    ——• Halfling
    —• Classes
    ——• Barbarian
    ——• Bard
    ——• Cleric
    ——• Druid
    ——• Fighter
    ——• Monk
    ——• Paladin
    ——• Ranger
    ——• Rogue
    ——• Sorcerer
    ——• Wizard
    ——• Psion
    —• Skills
    ——• Academics
    ——• Acrobatics
    ——• Arcane Lore
    ——• Athletics
    ——• Deception
    ——• Engineering
    ——• Handle Animal
    ——• Heal
    ——• Insight
    ——• Intimidate
    ——• Linguistics
    ——• Natural Lore
    ——• Perception
    ——• Perform
    ——• Persuasion
    ——• Profession
    ——• Psi Lore
    ——• Stealth
    ——• Streetwise
    ——• Theology
    —• Feats
    —• Equipment and Supplies
    —• Adventuring and Combat
    —• Magic and Spells


    Barbarian
    Spoiler: Design Notes
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    As stated in the Index thread, the purpose of this project is threefold:
    1. To improve and streamline parts of 3rd Edition without changing it into an entirely new system.
    2. To revise the SRD classes to be within Tier 2 to Tier 3 in power level.
    3. Because I enjoy homebrewing and want to do it.

    A few notes about this project in general:
    • Skills have been revised completely. There are now only 21 skills. Max skill rank is equal to Hit Dice.
    • Feats have been heavily revised. Most notably among them, Weapon Finesse has been made a normal feature of certain weapons rather than a feat.
    • While this project does touch on material from other sources, it is focused primarily on material in the SRD. Where material from other sourcebooks intersects this project directly, such as with alternate class features and substitution levels, that material will be referenced here but not reproduced if unavailable in the SRD. Where other sourcebooks don't directly intersect, such as new feats and spells, that content will be largely ignored and is considered to be compatible with this project unless otherwise stated.


    The Barbarian
    I'm largely happy with the default barbarian. It's the one primary melee class in the PHB that is widely regarded as good, for good reason. However, I wanted to give it more options as well as an ability to specialize a bit. I took the Totem Barbarian ACF from the SRD and expanded on it to create variations in the base class. However, I made them additional features as opposed to replacement features. I did limit the fast movement class feature to just one of the totems (three, with conditions), but this also allowed me to differentiate the 10 totems a bit more.

    My main goal with barbarian was to give it a little bit of a mechanical boost as well as an interesting option when building one that defines the character's play style a bit better. Whether or not this is sufficient to bump it up to a Tier 3 class, I don't know. I'm not certain it is, but I do feel it moves it a bit closer to that goal.

    I know I'm going to get push back on not giving pounce to the lion totem barbarian (I certainly did in testing with my local group!), but I'm not planning to just give out pounce in this revision, certainly not at 1st level. (However, see the [URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23099181&postcount=5"]Two-Weapon Fighting[/ULR] feat changes.)




    Alignment: Any non-lawful.

    Base
    Fort Ref Will
    Attack Bonus
    Save Save Save
    Special
    1st
    +1
    +2 +0 +0
    Illiteracy, rage 1/day, tribal totem
    2nd
    +2
    +3 +0 +0
    Uncanny dodge
    3rd
    +3
    +3 +1 +1
    Trap sense +1
    4th
    +4
    +4 +1 +1
    Rage 2/day
    5th
    +5
    +4 +1 +1
    Improved uncanny dodge
    6th
    +6/+1
    +5 +2 +2
    Trap sense +2
    7th
    +7/+2
    +5 +2 +2
    Damage reduction 1/–, tireless rage
    8th
    +8/+3
    +6 +2 +2
    Rage 3/day
    9th
    +9/+4
    +6 +3 +3
    Trap sense +3
    10th
    +10/+5
    +7 +3 +3
    Damage reduction 2/–
    11th
    +11/+6/+1
    +7 +3 +3
    Greater rage
    12th
    +12/+7/+2
    +8 +4 +4
    Rage 4/day, trap sense +4
    13th
    +13/+8/+3
    +8 +4 +4
    Damage reduction 3/–
    14th
    +14/+9/+4
    +9 +4 +4
    Indomitable will
    15th
    +15/+10/+5
    +9 +5 +5
    Trap sense +5
    16th
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    +10 +5 +5
    Damage reduction 4/–, rage 5/day
    17th
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    +10 +5 +5
    Raging regeneration
    18th
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    +11 +6 +6
    Trap sense +6
    19th
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    +11 +6 +6
    Damage reduction 5/–
    20th
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    +12 +6 +6
    Mighty rage, rage 6/day

    Hit Die: d12
    Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, Χ2 at 1st level): Athletics (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Natural Lore (Int), Perception (Wis), and Profession (Wis).

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the Barbarian.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    A barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

    Illiteracy
    Barbarians do not automatically know how to read and write. A barbarian may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write all languages he is able to speak. A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a barbarian level does not lose the literacy he or she already had.

    Rage (Ex)
    A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian's hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are. While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Acrobatics (Balance, Escape), Intimidate, and Handle Animal (Ride)), or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except item creation feats and metamagic feats.

    A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the barbarian's (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued for the duration of the current encounter.

    A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level he can use his rage ability once per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, he can use it one additional time per day, to a maximum of six times per day at 20th level. Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a barbarian can do so only during his action, not in response to someone else's action.

    Tribal Totem (Ex)
    At 1st level, a barbarian chooses a single tribal totem, a spirit animal of some sort that represents himself and his tribe. The tribal totem grants several special abilities unique to that totem. The tribal totems are Ape, Bear, Boar, Dragon, Eagle, Horse, Jaguar, Lion, Serpent, and Wolf.

    All abilities granted by a barbarian's tribal totem are extraordinary.
    Spoiler: Tribal Totems
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    Ape
    • At 1st level, an ape totem barbarian gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. His unarmed strike deals 1d6 damage, assuming he is medium size. When fighting unarmed, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, though not if he is wielding a weapon in either hand.
    • At 2nd level, an ape totem barbarian gains a climb speed equal to his land speed.
    • At 3rd level, an ape totem barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Intimidate checks and unarmed damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, his unarmed strike damage increases by one die size as if he had increased a size category.
    • At 10th level, an ape totem barbarian fighting unarmed can make an extra unarmed strike on a full attack. This extra attack is made at his full base attack bonus.

    Bear
    • At 1st level, a bear totem barbarian gains Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the normal prerequisites.
    • At 2nd level, a bear totem barbarian gains the Improved Grab special ability, allowing him to start a grapple as a free action after making a successful melee attack. The barbarian must have at least one hand free in order to initiate the grapple.
    • At 3rd level, a bear totem barbarian gains a +1 bonus on grapple checks and on damage dealt to an opponent while grappling. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, the barbarian is treated as being one size category larger while grappling, if it's advantageous to him to do so. Among the other benefits, this allows the barbarian to use his improved grab ability against creatures of his own size and the damage dice of his unarmed strike is increased while grappling.
    • At 10th level, a bear totem barbarian is instead treated as being two size categories larger while grappling and can use one-handed weapons while grappling in addition to light weapons.

    Boar
    • At 1st level, a boar totem barbarian gains damage reduction 1/–. This increases to 2/– at 4th level and stacks with the damage reduction granted at higher levels. In addition, a boar totem barbarian can choose to activate his rage as an Immediate action when he is dealt damage.
    • At 2nd level, when raging, a boar totem barbarian become able to fight without penalty while disabled or dying.
    • At 3rd level, a boar totem barbarian gains an additional +1 bonus to Constitution while raging and to the number of rounds his rage lasts. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, a boar totem barbarian increases the range at which he can continue functioning without dying. The point at which he dies is improved by twice his class level. So, a 5th-level boar totem barbarian will not die until he reaches -20 hit points. At 20th level, he can survive until he reaches -50.
    • At 10th level, a boar totem barbarian in a rage can use an immediate action to delay the effect of a single attack, spell, or ability used against him. The damage or effect occurs immediately at the start of his next turn and cannot be delayed additional rounds through the use of this ability. A boar totem barbarian may use this ability a number of times per rage equal to his base Will save. So, a 10th-level boar totem barbarian can normally use this ability 3 times per rage.

    Dragon
    • At 1st level, a dragon totem barbarian can attempt to Intimidate an opponent in combat as a move action rather than as a standard action.
    • At 2nd level, a dragon totem barbarian can add his Constitution bonus, if any, on saves against sleep, paralysis, and fear.
    • At 3rd level, he gains a +1 bonus on Intimidate checks. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, he can make Intimidate checks as a swift action.
    • At 10th level, he can make an Intimidate check when he attacks, charges, or enters a rage. This affects all creatures that can see him within 50 feet. He may use this ability only once per round. Any creature who resists this Intimidation attempt becomes immune to this ability for 24 hours.

    Eagle
    • At 1st level, an eagle totem barbarian gains a favored enemy as a Ranger. In addition, entering a rage grants a bonus to his Dexterity rather than his Strength.
    • At 2nd level, an eagle totem Barbarian gains Far Shot and Precise Shot as bonus feats, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.
    • At 3rd level, he gains a +1 bonus on Perception checks and ranged weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, he gains a 2nd favored enemy and increases the bonus against any one favored enemy by 2.
    • At 10th level, he gains a 3rd favored enemy and increases the bonus against any one favored enemy by 2. In addition, the range increment of any ranged weapon he wields is increased by 50%, which stacks with the benefits of the Far Shot feat.

    Horse
    • At 1st level, the speed of a mount ridden by a horse totem barbarian becomes faster than the norm for its race by +10 feet.
    • At 2nd level, he gains Mounted Combat as a bonus feat.
    • At 3rd level, a horse totem barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Handle Animal checks in regards to any mounts he rides. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, he gains Ride-By Attack as a bonus feat.
    • At 10th level, a horse totem barbarian can make an extra attack when using Ride-By Attack. This extra attack is made at his full base attack bonus.

    Jaguar
    • At 1st level, a jaguar totem barbarian's land speed becomes faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is not wearing heavy armor and not encumbered by a heavy load. In addition, he does not suffer the normal -2 penalty to AC while charging.
    • At 2nd level, a jaguar totem barbarian gains trapfinding as a rogue. He can disable traps by making an attack roll. If his attack roll is higher than the disable DC, the trap is successfully disarmed. Otherwise, the trap is automatically activated. Some traps, such as pitfalls, some magic traps, and traps that have no parts to attack cannot be disabled in this way.
    • At 3rd level, he gains a +1 bonus on Perception checks to locate traps and on attack rolls to disable traps. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, a jaguar totem barbarian gains Evasion, which functions as long as he is not wearing heavy armor and not encumbered by a heavy load.
    • At 10th level, he can rage 1 additional time per day. The bonuses to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves during his rage each increase by +2, which stacks with the increases from Greater Rage and Mighty Rage. In addition, he no longer suffers the -2 penalty to AC while raging.

    Lion
    • At 1st level, a lion totem barbarian gains Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.
    • At 2nd level, a lion totem barbarian increases his land speed by 10 feet when charging.
    • At 3rd level, a lion totem barbarian deals +1 damage on weapon damage rolls made when he charges. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, a lion totem barbarian gains Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.
    • At 10th level, a lion totem barbarian gains Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites. Additionally, he can use the extra attack from Improved Two-Weapon Fighting anytime that he can use the extra attack from Two-Weapon Fighting.

    Serpent
    • At 1st level, a serpent totem barbarian gains poison use and may apply poison to his weapons as a swift action, even while raging. He also gains a +4 bonus on saves against poison.
    • At 2nd level, a serpent totem barbarian gets a +4 bonus on Stealth checks.
    • At 3rd level, a serpent totem barbarian increases the save DC of any poison he uses by 1. The save DC increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, the initial and secondary damage of poisons he uses increases by +1 per damage die, 1 point if it deals a fixed amount of damage. If a poison doesn't deal damage, this has no effect.
    • At 10th level, the initial and secondary damage of poisons he uses increases by +1 per damage die, 1 point if it deals a fixed amount of damage. This stacks with the bonus gained at 5th level.

    Wolf
    • At 1st level, a wolf totem barbarian gains Improved Trip as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites.
    • At 2nd level, a wolf totem barbarians gains an additional +2 attack bonus when flanking an opponent and a +2 bonus on trip attempts made against a flanked opponent.
    • At 3rd level, a wolf totem barbarian gains a +1 bonus on damage dealt against prone opponents. This bonus increases by +1 every three barbarian levels.
    • At 5th level, a wolf totem barbarian gains the Scent ability.
    • At 10th level, when a wolf totem barbarian makes a successful melee attack, he may make a trip attempt as a free action.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
    At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

    Trap Sense (Ex)
    Starting at 3rd level, a barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 every three barbarian levels thereafter. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
    At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

    Damage Reduction (Ex)
    At 7th level, a barbarian gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the barbarian takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three barbarian levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

    Tireless Rage (Ex)
    At 7th level and higher, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of his rage.

    Greater Rage (Ex)
    At 11th level, a barbarian's bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +6, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +3. The penalty to AC remains at -2.

    Indomitable Will (Ex)
    While in a rage, a barbarian of 14th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on all Will saves. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, including the bonus on Will saves he receives during his rage.

    Raging Regeneration (Ex)
    Starting at 17th level, while in a rage, a barbarian gains fast healing 5, healing 5 hit points at the start of each of his turns.

    Mighty Rage (Ex)
    At 20th level, a barbarian's bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +8, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +4. The penalty to AC remains at -2.

    Ex-Barbarians
    A barbarian who becomes lawful loses the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels as a barbarian. He retains all the other benefits of the class.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2019-01-06 at 12:37 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Barbarian Alternative Class Features
    Compatible ACFs
    The following alternative class features from official sources are fully compatible with this class.
    • Berserker Strength (PHB2)
    • Bonus Feat (Sandstorm)
    • Fangshields Barbarian (Champions of Valor)
    • Ferocity (Cityscape)
    • Goliath Barbarian (Races of Stone)
    • Half-Orc Barbarian (Races of Destiny)
    • Planar Barbarian (Planar Handbook)
    • Spell Sense (Complete Mage)
    • Uncanny Bravery (Dragon Magic)
    • Wastelands Damage Reduction (Sandstorm)
    • Wastelands Trap Sense (Sandstorm)
    • Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana)

    Modified ACFs
    The following alternative class features from official sources are not fully compatible with this class and require some modification. Substitution features not listed are as written.
    • Crafty Hunting (Unearthed Arcana p58)
    • Duskling Barbarian (Magic of Incarnum)
    • Fast Movement to Swim (Stormwrack)
    • Roof Dweller (Cityscape)
    • Trapkiller (Dungeonscape)
    • Unholy Fury (Exemplars of Evil)
    • View Spirit World (Complete Champion)

    Spoiler: Modified ACFs
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    Crafty Hunting (Unearthed Arcana p58)
    A barbarian with this alternative class feature gains favored enemy as a ranger and only the archery bonus feats from a ranger's combat style, improved combat style, and greater combat style. He does not gain the two-weapon fighting feats or the combat style mastery ability.

    An eagle totem barbarian who selects this alternative class feature does not stack the favored enemy bonuses from this alternative class feature with those granted by his tribal totem.

    Any tribal totem abilities that modify rage or function only while raging are lost if a barbarian selects this alternative class feature.

    Duskling Barbarian
    The 1st-level racial substitution level is only available to Jaguar Totem Barbarians.

    Fast Movement to Swim (Stormwrack)
    This alternative class feature is only available to Jaguar and Lion Totem Barbarians. It applies to Lion Totem Barbarians only when making charge attacks and is only gained at 2nd level.

    Roof Dweller
    This alternative class feature is only available to Jaguar Totem Barbarians.

    Trapkiller
    This alternative class feature is as written, unless you are a Jaguar Totem Barbarian.

    For Jaguar Totem Barbarians only, this class feature permits you to find traps using Natural Lore. The -5 penalty does not apply.

    Unholy Fury
    This alternative class feature is available to barbarians of any spiritual totem, but they must sacrifice their entire 1st level spiritual totem ability to gain it. This counts as a smite, smite good, or smite law special attack for the purposes of meeting prerequisites.

    At 10th level, a barbarian with this alternative class feature can make two smite attacks during a rage.

    View Spirit World
    This alternative class feature can be activated a number of times per day equal to one-half your barbarian level (rounded down). The duration is equal to your barbarian level.

    Incompatible ACFs
    The following alternative class features from official sources are compatible with this class at all.
    • Spiritual Totem (Complete Champion) – This is already incorporated into the base class.
    • Totem Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) – This is already incorporated into the base class.
    • Totem Manifestation (Complete Champion) – This is already incorporated into the base class.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2018-05-27 at 09:44 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    .
    The overall impresion I'm getting is the this is a really solid upgrade.

    Only thing to comment is tha the Dragon and Horse totems seem weak in comparison to the others.

    You might wanna take a look at PF's Unchained Barbarian and see if any of its Rage powers could fit into this class.

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .
    The overall impresion I'm getting is the this is a really solid upgrade.

    Only thing to comment is tha the Dragon and Horse totems seem weak in comparison to the others.
    I would tend to agree with that. I had a little trouble coming up with ideas for those, but I'm going to revisit them when I come back to this class for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    You might wanna take a look at PF's Unchained Barbarian and see if any of its Rage powers could fit into this class.
    I hadn't even considered looking at pathfinder for that kind of thing... I'll put it on my list of things to consider!


    Also, I've got some of the skills posted up in the main thread. I've got most of them typed back out since the hard drive failure, but I need to proof them and finish the formatting. The first four are up though!
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    I hope this doesn't count as thread necromancy.

    I'm curious about the interaction of the Boar Totem with the Berserker Strength ACF

    Berserker Strength:
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB2 33
    Whenever your current hit point total is below 5x your barbarian level, your berserker strength automatically activates. You gain a +4 bonus to your Strength score, a +2 bonus on saves, damage reduction 2/-, and a -2 penalty to your AC. The damage reduction granted by berserker strength stacks with any similar kind of damage reduction.
    There is no limit to the number of times per day your berserker strength can activate. While berserker strength is active, you have the same limitation on actions as a barbarian in rage(PH 25). You cannot voluntarily end your berserker strength, although you automatically drop out of it while unconscious , helpless, or (most likely) when you receive healing to bring your current hit points above the threshold.
    .....[Snip progression].....
    Any effect that would normally apply only during your rage applies whenever your berserker strength is active
    Boar totem
    "In addition, a boar totem barbarian can choose to activate his rage as an Immediate action when he is dealt damage."

    Does this mean you could, theoretically, trigger your Berserker strength as an immediate action when you take damage(even if this doesn't put you below the threshold). And if so, does that also mean you don't drop out of it until you are unconcious, helpless, or healed(as it expressly states you leave it when these situations occur. not generally "when your hit points are above the threshold"?
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlasSniperman View Post
    Does this mean you could, theoretically, trigger your Berserker strength as an immediate action when you take damage(even if this doesn't put you below the threshold). And if so, does that also mean you don't drop out of it until you are unconcious, helpless, or healed(as it expressly states you leave it when these situations occur. not generally "when your hit points are above the threshold"?
    No. Berserker Strength replaces normal rage. You can't choose to activate Berserker Strength, even with the Boar Totem's ability.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    A bit off-topic, but may I ask when you plan to post your Revised Wizard? I've been working on one myself for a while now, but wouldn't want to tread on your toes if you're going to post yours soon.

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    A bit off-topic, but may I ask when you plan to post your Revised Wizard? I've been working on one myself for a while now, but wouldn't want to tread on your toes if you're going to post yours soon.
    yeah i like to see revised villige idiot class from your perspective.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    yeah i like to see revised villige idiot class from your perspective.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Also, I wonder if it would be horribly broken to give a Barbarian unlimited uses of rage at 20th level? +/- the ability to use wildshape, in keeping with skinchanger etc lore?

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I would tend to agree with that. I had a little trouble coming up with ideas for those, but I'm going to revisit them when I come back to this class for sure.
    The first thing that comes to mind for the Dragon totem is to move the 10th-level ability down to 5th (getting multi-target fear earlier is good, and situational free Intimidate is more thematic than basically letting them spam Intimidate against one target every round) and at 10th level grant them resistance to all the common energy types (acid/cold/electricity/fire) equal to their DR.

    For the Horse totem, how about instead of a Handle Animal bonus, grant them an animal companion as per the ranger, but it has to be a (war)pony or (war)horse? Having a tougher mount would ensure they can keep making use of the rest of the totem features, and is less situational than Handle Animal.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    A few things of note:
    -DR should be increased, since DR 5/- is laughable at level 19. I would be fine with it being increased only during a rage, but something needs to change.
    -You mentioned in the design notes that you wanted the class to be T3, how about the feature to mimic other totem abilities? Like, a 10th level barbarian can have his totem abilities, and can use up to the 5th level abilities of another totem, or something like that. Totem abilities also need to scale past level 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    grant them resistance to all the common energy types (acid/cold/electricity/fire) equal to their DR.
    How about resist. = DR x2/3? Resistance 5 to common energies at level 19 (as I said earlier) is very low

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Bwahaha! Not a fan of wizards, I see?
    I think that was sarcasm in that you'd probably buff it to the high heavens as you do with most things you touch, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Also, I wonder if it would be horribly broken to give a Barbarian unlimited uses of rage at 20th level? +/- the ability to use wildshape, in keeping with skinchanger etc lore?
    It wouldn't be broken to give unlimited rage uses, since the barbarian is still limited to raging once every encounter. Now, to give him unlimited rages every encounter would be a bad design choice. Not broken, but a pure statistical buff without anything unique going for it is the last thing that the class needs. Pathfinder does particularly well in this, that you can use a unique ability every time you rage.

    When did Rizban mention this "skinchanger" lore?
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    killing and eating a bag of rats is probably kosher.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    How about resist. = DR x2/3? Resistance 5 to common energies at level 19 (as I said earlier) is very low
    So's DR 5, really, as you also noted. I'd personally have the DR top out at 15 or 20, and the same or more for the energy resistance, but if the DR is staying low to keep to the original barbarian values then the energy resistance probably should as well.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    The Dragonmarked Rage feat gives fast healing during rage starting at 1st level, so maybe you could move Raging Regeneration up a bit? Also, a 17th-level Barbarian will typically have a lot of HP, so healing 5 hit points every round will probably be a drop in the bucket.

    I'm not sure the uses per day paradigm is a good one. To start with, only being able to use your defining class feature once per day (about 1/4 of fights) seems a little lame. Then, later, you're getting a fifth and sixth use of Rage each day like it's a big thing. But how often will your DM give you that many encounters per day? The Extra Rage feat helps with the first problem. You can start with 3 Rages per day at 1st level, or even 5 if you're a human and really want to blow both of your feats. But that also brings on the second problem even sooner. If you start with 5 uses per day at 1st level, all those instances of "+1 Rage use" start to look pretty uninteresting.

    Honestly, I never got why Barbarians had Trap Sense. Adding Trapfinding as an option sort of ties into it, but why do all the other totems also wind up good at dodging traps? It's really more of a "block with the chest" kind of class.

    Any 20th-level Druid can turn into a Dire Polar Bear and have str 39. And that's on top of all their other cool stuff. For Barbarians, being strong is pretty much half of their entire class. So how strong is a 20th-level Barbarian? Let's see, 18 base + 5 levels + 4 racial, maybe 27? I mean, yes, there are belts of giant's strength and tomes of... whichever one is strength. But remember, those are things a Druid can have too. (And the Druid can cast Bite of the Werebear on himself to boot.)

    So, you could throw in another +12 strength while raging, and Barbarian would still only tie for highest strength class.

    After ending a Rage, you're fatigued for the remainder of the encounter. But Rage generally lasts the whole encounter anyway, so it rarely comes up. Then, at 7th level, you get over the whole fatigue thing, but you probably don't notice, because, as I said, it rarely comes up. How exactly would it hurt anything to just strip out the rule about Rage causing fatigue? Also, wouldn't it be easier to make Rage last an entire encounter? I feel like, if we can simplify things by removing rules that almost never got used anyway, that's a plus.

    As for Indomitable Will, I think by that point you could safely give immunity to mind-affecting effect while raging. In fact, you could parcel that out as the class goes. First immunity to fear, then charms, compulsions, and whatever other subgroups of will saves you can come up with. Actually, there's your 17th level ability "while raging a barbarian is immune to any effect that allows a will save." Give mind-affecting immunity at some point before that.

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    The Dragonmarked Rage feat gives fast healing during rage starting at 1st level, so maybe you could move Raging Regeneration up a bit? Also, a 17th-level Barbarian will typically have a lot of HP, so healing 5 hit points every round will probably be a drop in the bucket.

    I'm not sure the uses per day paradigm is a good one. To start with, only being able to use your defining class feature once per day (about 1/4 of fights) seems a little lame. Then, later, you're getting a fifth and sixth use of Rage each day like it's a big thing. But how often will your DM give you that many encounters per day? The Extra Rage feat helps with the first problem. You can start with 3 Rages per day at 1st level, or even 5 if you're a human and really want to blow both of your feats. But that also brings on the second problem even sooner. If you start with 5 uses per day at 1st level, all those instances of "+1 Rage use" start to look pretty uninteresting.

    Honestly, I never got why Barbarians had Trap Sense. Adding Trapfinding as an option sort of ties into it, but why do all the other totems also wind up good at dodging traps? It's really more of a "block with the chest" kind of class.

    Any 20th-level Druid can turn into a Dire Polar Bear and have str 39. And that's on top of all their other cool stuff. For Barbarians, being strong is pretty much half of their entire class. So how strong is a 20th-level Barbarian? Let's see, 18 base + 5 levels + 4 racial, maybe 27? I mean, yes, there are belts of giant's strength and tomes of... whichever one is strength. But remember, those are things a Druid can have too. (And the Druid can cast Bite of the Werebear on himself to boot.)

    So, you could throw in another +12 strength while raging, and Barbarian would still only tie for highest strength class.

    After ending a Rage, you're fatigued for the remainder of the encounter. But Rage generally lasts the whole encounter anyway, so it rarely comes up. Then, at 7th level, you get over the whole fatigue thing, but you probably don't notice, because, as I said, it rarely comes up. How exactly would it hurt anything to just strip out the rule about Rage causing fatigue? Also, wouldn't it be easier to make Rage last an entire encounter? I feel like, if we can simplify things by removing rules that almost never got used anyway, that's a plus.

    As for Indomitable Will, I think by that point you could safely give immunity to mind-affecting effect while raging. In fact, you could parcel that out as the class goes. First immunity to fear, then charms, compulsions, and whatever other subgroups of will saves you can come up with. Actually, there's your 17th level ability "while raging a barbarian is immune to any effect that allows a will save." Give mind-affecting immunity at some point before that.
    I second all of the above.
    I've always regarded the Barbarian concept as something that should've been one of many options to build a fighter. The above would finally give it validity and justification as a separate class.

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    I think that was sarcasm in that you'd probably buff it to the high heavens as you do with most things you touch, IMO.
    Considering Khadgar has asked me for homebrew on multiple occasions, I think you may be projecting? :)

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    I second all of the above.
    I've always regarded the Barbarian concept as something that should've been one of many options to build a fighter. The above would finally give it validity and justification as a separate class.
    I also +1 all of that, except that Rizban is aiming for a low T2/high T3 class system, so the whole "oh, but a druid can do all of that and more" is a bad argument because the druid will likely be revised as well.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    I also +1 all of that, except that Rizban is aiming for a low T2/high T3 class system, so the whole "oh, but a druid can do all of that and more" is a bad argument because the druid will likely be revised as well.
    If I understand correctly, the argument is that the power increase would be minor, but would save a lot of character management (except for where it deserves a power increase - mental resiliency while raging - the hole point that justifies basing a class around rage).

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    If I understand correctly, the argument is that the power increase would be minor, but would save a lot of character management (except for where it deserves a power increase - mental resiliency while raging - the whole point that justifies basing a class around rage).
    I agree with the part about better mental resiliency & everything else mentioned -- that's ok. My point is that the argument for a larger STR increase in a rage is because a druid could relatively do the same without much effort (such is the description of a T1 class). But since the druid class is likely to be revised (since it is out of the desired power level), the aforementioned argument easily falls apart unless the new druid could do the same (unlikely). Not to say that doing something like that is necessarily out of the picture, but a better reason should probably be devised before consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Considering Khadgar has asked me for homebrew on multiple occasions, I think you may be projecting? :)
    Hence, "IMO". To each their own, methinks.
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