Results 121 to 150 of 301
-
2018-06-01, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- ICU, under a cherry tree.
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
That's not my position and frankly I'm surprised, given what I know of your posts in general, that you would say that. You have struck me as a good faith participant so far in other threads, and yet here we are...
Because there is no such thing as an invisible market hand that will force companies to change their ways.
The fashion industry big players, like all big market players everywhere, are conservative. They sell what sold well in the past. They have no incentive to break into new markets because they are already at the top, and barrier entries prevent others from making a dent.
In short, they don't put pockets in women's clothes because they've never put pockets in women's clothes. This hypothesis matches reality much better than your pie-in-the-sky "capitalism will fix sexist tendencies in the fashion industry", just like capitalism has failed to make that change in other markets (video games, film, business word, etc).
Maybe, this is like The Last Jedi. There's a significant number of us that hate the movie, and it's easy to find any number of videos criticizing it. But there are far many more that outnumber us that loved it, and it broke records at the box office. So I guess they'll continue in that awful direction. Maybe, just maybe, you know a lot of women that want pockets in their pants, and aren't aware of the *many many more* women that don't care enough to make it a concern for clothing designers.
Probably like how the majority of video game consumers probably don't list "sexism in video games" as a priority concern for them, so video game publishers in turn don't make it a priority for themselves either.
Some of you act like it's completely implausible that this has been the topic of discussion many times in various offices around the country/world and it was discovered that it simply isn't worth it to start adding pockets to pants. And if that's the case, why would you expect a profit-driven company to take a hit and do something like that? It's uncharitable to accuse me of thinking the free market will fix sexism. I'm not the one claiming that sexism is the problem, you are! I have faith that if companies are aware of an opportunity to increase their bottom line, they will do it. You are basically skirting around the edges of saying "companies hate women and want to keep them without pockets, that's why we'll never have pants with pockets in them for women".
I'm confident that between social media movements, the current cultural climate, and things like Kickstarter, you will have mainstream women's pants with pockets in them at some point. Assuming the demand is there of course.
You spoke as if you knew better than women what they want. I suggest you read into the realities of mansplaining, and why there is nothing hypocritical about calling such people out.Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
Sabian Skellegue, the Unyielding Wrath
IC OOC
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Aelki Ruasha, Void Knight of the Star Ocean
IC OOC MAP
Chult Hex Crawl
Ondros, Mazewalker of Ubtao
IC OOC Slide Deck
Retired Characters
-
2018-06-01, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
I wouldn't buy pants without pockets. I'd wear overalls and bibs exclusively before I'd do that. I LITERALLY could not do my job without pockets.
Significantly fewer != none
I'd pay that and deal, I've had to do that for other similar things.
I would pay double for a pair of pants with pockets
So the answer is that men like me, and ladies like those here value pockets differently.
Edit: I have bought belts and external pockets because I didn't have enoigh. And I would pay significantly more for better and sturdier and more convenient pockets. And you know what? Those exist because tradesmen buy them. Carheart makes them and a few others do. Hell, I've considered modifying jeans to add carpenters loops.Last edited by AMFV; 2018-06-01 at 10:01 PM.
-
2018-06-01, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Here's the trouble:
Say you have features A, B, C, and D. People want features A and C. But they can buy AB or CD. Buying CD over AB doesn't mean they don't want A.
Also, AMFV, the clothing standards for office work and for trade work are very different. The solutions offered here would all lead to me being sent home for failure to dress appropriately for work.Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
-
2018-06-01, 11:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Right behind you
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
People like different things than me and I think that's terrible. They should only spend money on things I like so that I don't have to live in a world where things I don't like become popular. This is a big problem in my life and I'm sick of it. Why, just last week my girlfriend and I went purposefully spent money to go to a movie we knew we wouldn't like because we hadn't liked any of the other ones in its series. Our evening was ruined and it's all society's fault.
I also have strong opinions on whether or not women's should be easily able to find clothes with pockets at stores even though I am not a woman and have nothing to gain or lose from this issue.
-
2018-06-01, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
You cannot always have everything you want. But if enough people want A and C (and are prepared to pay the price for A and C) then you would expect the market to offer A and C (unless there is a good reason not to).
It doesn't always, because the market is not perfect, and does not have perfect information about what people want (or would want if it were available).
But, even though it's not perfect, its information is a hell of a lot better than people saying "I want A and C and several people who I have spoken to want A and C, so it must be the market that is wrong, not that the sample I took was too small to be representative, or didn't account for price or whatever".
I'd be interested to hear if you have a better system for determining what people want than the market?
-
2018-06-01, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2018-06-01, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Incorrect. Assuming your premise that the female population in general would be a lot happier with lots of pockets on their clothes is valid (it probably isn't), it follows that the companies have a major incentive to add pockets before their competition discovers that pot of gold before them and the sales of their pocketless clothes immediately fall off a cliff.
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2018-06-01, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Same tradeoff applies to us men, though. I'm usually wearing pants that are pretty perfectly unisex (casual) and full of pockets with useful things in them. However, when I have to dress up, my really big key ring and my pretty big wallet both make extremely unsightly bulges in my dress pants' pockets and would be an obvious no-no from the point of view of fashion. Since I have no purse, I have to leave them in the car, maybe only get my one key out of the ring and my one credit card out of the wallet, and keep those in my tiny, nearly useless dress-clothes-pockets.
90%+ of the time, though, I'm casually dressed, a conscious choice as I favor convenience over fashion. So I have pockets, and anyone else could, if they just imitated me. Can't have your cake and eat it too.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2018-06-01, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
That might be true if the supply of women's trousers were a monopoly - there was (and could only be) one company that made them. If that were the case then you are right, that company would have no incentive to add pockets, because women would have to buy pocketless trousers as the only ones available. That's why natural monopolies tend to be heavily regulated.
But the supply of woman's trousers is not a monopoly. There are lots of companies that supply them. If you were right, and there was an unmet demand for women's trousers, then there an incentive for one of the many companies that supplies trousers to supply them with pockets - because women would buy that brand over the others. If that happened than the other brands would follow suit.
That is the case - a quick google shows lots of results for women's trousers with decent size pockets.
-
2018-06-02, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Yes indeed, and as I have said, such things do exist and I own some. But they are very hard to find at the mainstream, budget ends of the clothing spectrum. Yes, I could pay a premium for pockets if I so wanted. But I don't want. I want to be able to walk into Primark or Matalan and pick up clothes with pockets at a price I can afford - just like men can. I've never claimed that women's clothes with pockets don't exist. But there's no food reason why they should be so much harder to get hold of, or any more expensive, than men's clothes with pockets.
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
-
2018-06-02, 04:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
The thing is you're asking for a feature then using the word budget. As I said I literally would not buy pants without pockers. Period. I would pay double for them.
As far as the difference between trade and office wear. I think that is relevant. In that few women work in the trades which is where I discovered the seriousness of a need for pockets. I suspect if more ladies did they might but pocketed pants.
The difference here is that I'm willing to buy the more expensive item to have pockets. Which means the cheap manufacturers HAVE to have oockers or they wouldn't sell.My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
-
2018-06-02, 05:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
-
2018-06-02, 05:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
I don't recognise the two shops you referred to, but I had a quick look at the Walmart website, and it showed several pairs of women's pants (jeans) for $20. One even showed the model with her hands in the pockets.
Where are you from Helio? Is it a particular style of pants you are after?
It seems to me that there are a much wider range of women's pants generally available (a lot more different styles) than men's. Also, it seems that at least some women prefer not to have large pockets (because of how they look). So by the time you have all these different styles of pants, and then double the number of options again by having each available with an without pockets, you have a very large variety of women's pants. I would not be surprised if some styles (and particularly some brands) were not available with pockets.
If there is a wide unmet demand for woman's pants with pockets this would show up in woman's pants with pockets (where they are available) dramatically outselling women's pants without.
-
2018-06-02, 06:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
You can buy pants with pockets there are links, and I mentioned cargo pants. There are a lot of guys in the fields I work. None of them would buy pocketless pants, they'd wear cargo pants or overalls before doing that.
Since something like 98 percent of people who do the kind of work I do are men. That means that the group most likely to demand pocketed pants are men. I would not buy pants without pockets.My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
-
2018-06-02, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
My wallet is a political extremist. I don't trust it to vote.
Stop writing letters to Viswanathan Anand.
-
2018-06-02, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Location
- Dallas-ish
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Last edited by rooster707; 2018-06-02 at 08:59 AM.
Vitruvian Stickman avatar by linklele.
I have an extended signature now. God knows why.
-
2018-06-02, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
I don't believe you.
Knowing what I've paid for my Carhartt's with pockets to hold my channel locks and torpedo level the way I've grown used to, compared to what some Target jeans cost, I'd be suprised if you haven't paid at least triple!
Are they ever!
I took an "Orbital Welding" for stainless steel tube class, and when I realized that unlike my previous welding classes I could pretty much dress for comfort, I kept the work boots, but ditched the denim for slacks and a button shirt.
The disapproving sneers and "You look like a banker" comments (this was in 2009) from my classmates (all guys in my local union, or close by ones) told me that office attire was not acceptable.
Though I notice that most male office workers don't wear good shirts instead they wear "Polo" shirts, which are flimsy, uncomfortable, and usually ugly (when not dark), why does this abomination exist?
With that in mind, it sure seems to me that "sport", "leisure", "casual", and often even "outdoor" clothing are synonym's for "uncomfortable flimsy plastic crap"!
I'm almost completely ready to agree with you, I just have to know how you feel about gold for XP, and murderous or hobo?
...I also have strong opinions on whether or not women's should be easily able to find clothes with pockets at stores even though I am not a woman and have nothing to gain or lose from this issue.
Well I for one have plenty to gain or lose despite my not wearing women's clothes, as my wife has complained to me MORE THAN ONCE about how she misses the deeper pockets of the past so those are multiple PRECIOUS seconds that I had to try to look like I was listening and cared, instead of staring at a book or my phone!
I would think that would be obvious:
An authoritarian implemation of my tastes.
Please start with radio!
I don't think enough people to be considered "a bunch" have posted to this thread yet
That does remind me of a pretty big flaw of "dress"/"business" slacks (which I find more comfortable than most other pants besides pajamas):
The pocket openings are vertical, so when I drive things are more likely to fall out.
I just don't trust buying "on-line", and vastly prefer "brick and mortar", so I sympathize with the ladies.
Speaking of which, I know that I'm in the minority, but that more and more things I can't shop for in a store that I walk into, feels like "market failure" to me, as did it when I worked at a motorcycle shop in the 1990's I personally sold the last sidecover or fuel tank that Honda or Kawasaki had available for some '60's and '70"s bikes multiple times, and that in my work many replacement parts that I used to be able to order for plumbing fixtures in the buildings I repair are no longer available
Yes "supply and demand", "the creative destruction of capitalism" "yadda, yadda, yadda", I don't care! Change is bad!
-
2018-06-02, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
2D8HP, have I ever told you you're my favorite crotchety old man on here?
Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
-
2018-06-02, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
-
2018-06-02, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2018-06-02, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
You know what I really want with women's clothing?
Sizing with numbers that mean something, or at least accurate size charts. (Most website size charts are generic and wildly innacurate - for example several common department stores just post a sort of "average" size chart rather than brand-specific sizing.) I don't know what a "10" is. I'd really like to be able to know my measurements and buy clothing that fits. Especially when two garments from the same brand might not even have the same sizing.Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
-
2018-06-02, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Stop writing letters to Viswanathan Anand.
-
2018-06-02, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
-
2018-06-02, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2