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  1. - Top - End - #961
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Maybe, but you think some people will wait to give it a genuine chance before judging? ;-)

    You should check the history of Discovery threads of this forum.
    Warhammer fans are different. We've had our standards lowered by so many years of crappy tie-ins. All Star Trek has is Enterprise.

  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    When you said "animated series", I imagined that they were turning Warhammer Adventures into a Netflix spin-off, similar to the recent She-Ra or something.

    But no, it's not even remotely a kids' show. It's a new story named Angels of Death (which is not the Chaos Marines Omnibus of the same name) by the same team who did the unlicensed but hugely popular Helsreach series.

    Helsreach was amazing. I'm thoroughly looking forward to a bigger budget, fully VO'd and licensed sequel.
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  3. - Top - End - #963
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    When you said "animated series", I imagined that they were turning Warhammer Adventures into a Netflix spin-off, similar to the recent She-Ra or something.

    But no, it's not even remotely a kids' show. It's a new story named Angels of Death (which is not the Chaos Marines Omnibus of the same name) by the same team who did the unlicensed but hugely popular Helsreach series.

    Helsreach was amazing. I'm thoroughly looking forward to a bigger budget, fully VO'd and licensed sequel.
    Seriously? Nice then! Sorry, I literally saw an article that said Saturday morning cartoon. I rechecked it to be sure

  4. - Top - End - #964
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    So there's going to be a warhammer 40K cartoon. I am curious about it, will reserve judgement until I hear more voice actor and see a bit more animation work.

    I suspect not everyone will be as chill about it as I am. I fully anticipate the standard angry boyzzzzz raging "Warhammer shouldn't be cartoon!!"


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  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Seriously? Nice then! Sorry, I literally saw an article that said Saturday morning cartoon. I rechecked it to be sure
    I think people are getting confused with the animated shorts being released atm to promote the Warhammer Adventures series. As far as I have seen, there are no plans to make that into a full Saturday morning cartoon style thing, but people are taking 2+2 of animated series announcement + these cartoon shorts and making 5 of them being the same thing.
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  6. - Top - End - #966
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Batman TAS was a saturday morning cartoon and a pretty good one at that. I dont think anyone is opposed to animation (actually, I'd prefer it to 3D / Live Action), they are just concerned about quality.

    Personally, if you told me even a midsize studio would be making Horus Heresy anime (as in, quality non-western animation, no bug-eyes and random pantyshots) I'd be extra happy. Western animation, while well written, tends to be less gory / grimdark.

  7. - Top - End - #967
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Wasn't the Ultramarines animated movie at least moderately well-received?
    I recall differently.

    I recall fans of the IP loving it, who would've loved it no matter what, because fanbois.
    I recall fans of the IP hating it, who would've hated it no matter what, because ruining my childhood.

    Outside of that...
    I remember that the movie barely walked the line of being average movie, carried almost solely on the strength of its IP and the fact that it was something out of the ordinary considering what we were getting in the animated realm is pretty much Disney or Dreamworks. People who aren't interested in the IP generally aren't going to watch it. And if they do...It was still...'A bit ****'.

    It's extremely difficult to find reviews of Ultramarines where the author doesn't qualify how much of a fan they are of the IP to begin with, and how that shades whatever they're about to say with a biased brush - positive and negative.

    I don't dare dive into IMDb reviews anymore. But the aggregate score is 5.7. But again, I don't really trust an aggregate score on this movie because the fanbase is so divided on it, that how would it not end up between 4-6?
    But this one was on Rotten Tomatoes. And it says what I remember hearing at the time. If you don't include the 'OMG WARHAMMER MOVIE' factor, the movie on it's own merits, just isn't that good. Which I, personally, agree with.

    Kind of feels like Final Fantasy: Spirits Within. If it wasn't called 'Final Fantasy', would you have seen it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Western animation, while well written, tends to be less gory / grimdark.
    Bojack Horseman is one of the most GrimDark shows I can think of.
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  8. - Top - End - #968
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Bojack Horseman is one of the most GrimDark shows I can think of.
    Its netflix brand of pretentious; its got a kind of forced-depth that just discourages me from watching it. But sure, if it gets greenlighted by a western studio and they dont turn it into a kiddy fest, I'd be happy as well. Just keep the art to a level like Young Justice or the Warner Animated movies. Bojack has garbage art, despite what the opinion on its writing may be.

  9. - Top - End - #969
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Since there isn't really anywhere else to put this, this clip has made the rounds over my discords lately. Maybe some people haven't seen it:


  10. - Top - End - #970
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Since there isn't really anywhere else to put this, this clip has made the rounds over my discords lately. Maybe some people haven't seen it:

    This is one of the most blatantly ridiculous, cheesy, absurd piece of worthless animation.

    I love it from the bottom of my heart.

  11. - Top - End - #971
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    It is ridiculous. Ultramarines are way too stodgy for an epic sax solo.

  12. - Top - End - #972
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Western animation, while well written, tends to be less gory / grimdark.
    I think there's been a bit of a resurgence in the last few years. Netflix's Castlevania springs to mind - it had its flaws, but I enjoyed it a lot and it was suitably grim and violent.

    Some of the stuff coming out of DC Comics is getting that way, too - The Death of Superman was pretty brutal, and they're getting more confident about on-screen blood in general. I'd like to say there are other factors at work apart from the popularity of the Deadpool movie (which contained so much CGI is was more or less animated anyway) but that seems to be a big part of the trend.

    I think that its inevitable that GW will one day have a big budget movie or series based on their IP. Hopefully it will be a series of something mature and engaging like Eisenhorn rather than a silly and bastardised "we're far too late to ride on the popularity train of Lord of the Rings but lets try it anyway" version of Gotrek & Felix....
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  13. - Top - End - #973
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I'm still unhappy that The Lord Inquisitor didn't get picked up by them. It would have been great with a real budget and more than one guy working on it in his spare time.

  14. - Top - End - #974
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Since there isn't really anywhere else to put this, this clip has made the rounds over my discords lately. Maybe some people haven't seen it:

    I need more of that.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    I need more of that.
    There is a 1 hour looped version on Youtube as well.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I think there's been a bit of a resurgence in the last few years. Netflix's Castlevania springs to mind - it had its flaws, but I enjoyed it a lot and it was suitably grim and violent.
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    That bit when Dracula bursts into Alucard's room and then breaks... such a nice series. Art / animation wasnt perfect, but it all worked nicely together.


    That style would probably work too. There are just so any cinematic moments in 40k literature that its a shame more of it doesnt get animated.

  17. - Top - End - #977
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    New episode is up. Enjoy!

  18. - Top - End - #978
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinius View Post
    New episode is up. Enjoy!
    I am. Really happy we have real progress on the Warhammer 40k story

  19. - Top - End - #979
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    So, the new Abaddon model, to me, reveals why the Imperium still stands.

    Yes, he's a giant, terrible warlord. Yes, he leads the very forces of hell.

    But look at his armour. It's rather poorly maintained. The cabling is wearing through. His cloak might be ragged for aesthetic reasons, but the armour itself is indicative of a force without the industry and logistics the Imperium has.

    Say what you will about the Dark Mech guys, but they can't even take care of the armour of their greatest leader.

    The Heretic Astartes are very probably the greatest warriors in the galaxy, but that is obviously limited by logistical concerns.

  20. - Top - End - #980
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by bluntpencil View Post
    So, the new Abaddon model, to me, reveals why the Imperium still stands.

    Yes, he's a giant, terrible warlord. Yes, he leads the very forces of hell.

    But look at his armour. It's rather poorly maintained. The cabling is wearing through. His cloak might be ragged for aesthetic reasons, but the armour itself is indicative of a force without the industry and logistics the Imperium has.
    And on top of that, he has too many arms.
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  21. - Top - End - #981
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    And on top of that, he has too many arms.
    More than zero?

  22. - Top - End - #982
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by bluntpencil View Post
    Say what you will about the Dark Mech guys, but they can't even take care of the armour of their greatest leader.

    The Heretic Astartes are very probably the greatest warriors in the galaxy, but that is obviously limited by logistical concerns.
    This has always been true, as far back as I can remember. The Heretic Forces do have SOME industry in the form of Heretek Forgeworlds, but they're just as factional and suspicious of each other as the Astartes Legions are of them, and trade tends to occur only during tense and highly ritualised circumstance where backstabbing and duplicity is the norm.

    That, and the Heretic forces are always WAY more interested in turning people into hideous daemon-engines and the likes, rather than simply making new boltguns. Their poor prioritising means that its usually easier to launch a raid on an Imperial planet, steal what you need and recycle your own dead guys' equipment, than it is to try and secure a stable supply of goods from a lunatic who is running a Dark Mechanicus facility and who will probably be attacked and looted by your other rivals in short order.

    Really great examples of this are in The Talon of Horus and the Night Lords trilogy.
    In ToH, the protagonist Khayon recounts how he has had to barter his resources and service in exchange for what he needs, often entering indentured servitude for nearly a decade at a time to afford some old technology - and that is from a Dark Mech. Magos who really likes him.
    The Night Lords, meanwhile, are amazing books that nonetheless are mostly a list of ways in which a small warband tries to screw over their rivals while getting screwed over themselves. They loot their own dead with enthusiastic scavenging and generally getting more and more broken down until they're forced into dangerous positions of servitude under people like Huron Blackheart, who is powerful because he has access to materials and resources that he can spare in return for 'favours'.

    That's partly the reason as to why Black Crusades only come along every millennia or so; it takes that long for Team Heretic to get its act together and ready itself each time.

    Also, Abaddon's armour and weapons are Crusade-era equipment, from a time when technology was developed by the Emperor and his immediate assistants. It's generally just better quality than the stuff produced in the 41st millenium, so even if it looks a bit shabby and beaten-up its well worth hanging on to rather than downgrading for something that hasn't been scratched and chipped for 10,000 years.
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  23. - Top - End - #983
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    That, and the Heretic forces are always WAY more interested in turning people into hideous daemon-engines and the likes, rather than simply making new boltguns.
    To be fair, half the fun of Kayos is precisely the possibility of attaching daemons to everything.

    And considering that daemon engines are pretty killy (cough Heldrakes cough), it can be a pretty solid trade.

    Just wouldn't be a proper fight to honor the dark gods if Kayos got both daemons/mutations and proper logistics and loyalist scum only got high logistics since the emprah will only grant his divine blessings to nuns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    That's partly the reason as to why Black Crusades only come along every millennia or so; it takes that long for Team Heretic to get its act together and ready itself each time.
    There's also the whole "will you guys stop stabbing/shooting each other for 5 minutes so we can all go stab/shoot loyalist scum instead?"

    Abaddon doesn't get enough credit for getting Plague/Noise Marines and Thousand Sons all Khorne Berzekers and in the same fleet and getting them to work together for any amount of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Also, Abaddon's armour and weapons are Crusade-era equipment, from a time when technology was developed by the Emperor and his immediate assistants. It's generally just better quality than the stuff produced in the 41st millenium, so even if it looks a bit shabby and beaten-up its well worth hanging on to rather than downgrading for something that hasn't been scratched and chipped for 10,000 years.
    Plus in 40k, older is better. Loyalist chapter mastahs all blinged up with relic swords and who-knows-how-old assorted artifacts. Dreadnoughts specifically get recycled over and over. The Phalanx is the loyalist scum's bestest ship and had been around since before the great crusade. At least.

    EDIT: Also do recall the empire can only keep its top logistics going by strip-mining its planets down to the last piece of ore and drop of water one by one (when they're not being blown up), while there's always more daemons. So in the long picture, glorious Kayos shall be the victor.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-03-06 at 06:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  24. - Top - End - #984
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    This is just cable insulation though. It's not the lost secrets of the Dark Age of Technology, it could be fixed with a roll of electrical tape.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    To be fair, half the fun of Kayos is precisely the possibility of attaching daemons to everything.
    You're not wrong, but as much fun as that might be it doesn't help the Iron Warrior whose boltgun has run out of ammo!

    It's all very well that you have a living tank rolling around and 16ft tall monsters beating the snot out of nearby dreadnoughts, but sometimes what you really need is one guy who can operate a doorknob or type on a keyboard without putting his fist through the entire building. Chaos is notoriously bad at looking out for those guys, even though ObSec is hugely important!

    There's also the whole "will you guys stop stabbing/shooting each other for 5 minutes so we can all go stab/shoot loyalist scum instead?"
    I know. Hence "partly".

    EDIT: Also do recall the empire can only keep its top logistics going by strip-mining its planets down to the last piece of ore and drop of water one by one (when they're not being blown up), while there's always more daemons. So in the long picture, glorious Kayos shall be the victor.
    Acknowledged in-universe. The Cabal told Alpharius that if the Imperium won out from the Heresy then the rest of time would be a slow, painful and ignominious end for humanity after the war would eventually consume all sides entirely. A Chaos victory, however, would be immediately bloody but comparatively quickly it would burn out as Chaos turned on itself, and would at least leave a few survivors who could rebuild.

    They were filthy Xenos of course and not to be trusted, but a few others - Eldrad Ulthuan for one, and Gideon Ravenor for another - who foresaw the future and indirectly knew that they were right; The Imperium will eventually rot and disintegrate because it represents something for Chaos to band together against.
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  26. - Top - End - #986
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    This is just cable insulation though. It's not the lost secrets of the Dark Age of Technology, it could be fixed with a roll of electrical tape.
    Chances are that by 40k electrical take is a lost secret of the Dark Age of Technology, the few remaining copies being revered as (un)holy relics and kept under close watch by the Inquisition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    You're not wrong, but as much fun as that might be it doesn't help the Iron Warrior whose boltgun has run out of ammo!
    Didn't Thousand Sons learn how to make their bolters just spew hellfire? Even better than solid ammo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    It's all very well that you have a living tank rolling around and 16ft tall monsters beating the snot out of nearby dreadnoughts, but sometimes what you really need is one guy who can operate a doorknob or type on a keyboard without putting his fist through the entire building. Chaos is notoriously bad at looking out for those guys, even though ObSec is hugely important!
    Why do you think Kayos always keeps some (lots) cultists with normal hands around?

    Besides sacrifices and meatshields and distractions and assorted boring works of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Acknowledged in-universe. The Cabal told Alpharius that if the Imperium won out from the Heresy then the rest of time would be a slow, painful and ignominious end for humanity after the war would eventually consume all sides entirely. A Chaos victory, however, would be immediately bloody but comparatively quickly it would burn out as Chaos turned on itself, and would at least leave a few survivors who could rebuild.

    They were filthy Xenos of course and not to be trusted, but a few others - Eldrad Ulthuan for one, and Gideon Ravenor for another - who foresaw the future and indirectly knew that they were right; The Imperium will eventually rot and disintegrate because it represents something for Chaos to band together against.
    Indeed, after the Horus Heresy Kayos the one who has been enjoying 10 000 years of party eternal war and scheming.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-03-06 at 08:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    but sometimes what you really need is one guy who can operate a doorknob or type on a keyboard without putting his fist through the entire building. Chaos is notoriously bad at looking out for those guys, even though ObSec is hugely important!
    Fair point though in contrast we have orks who just straight up don't give a damn and run around looking for thing to fight while playing make believe with their toys. That works out okay for them, so how much does chaos really need to get their act together to do the thing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Fair point though in contrast we have orks who just straight up don't give a damn and run around looking for thing to fight while playing make believe with their toys. That works out okay for them, so how much does chaos really need to get their act together to do the thing?
    You know, for all the "always looking for a fight" rep orks get, they actually have a pretty well developed society and plenty of non-war activities for a 40k faction. Meks spend a lot of time building stuff, lootas searching for good scrap, Doks "experiment", squig trainers train squigs and all of those trading their goods and services with each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  29. - Top - End - #989
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Meks spend a lot of time building stuff...
    ...Out of things they loot from their enemies, from a war.

    lootas searching for good scrap
    ...Off of things they loot from their enemies, from a war

    Doks "experiment"
    ...To make things to fight war better.

    squig trainers train squigs
    To eat their enemies, in a war.

    and all of those trading their goods and services with each other.
    Where their currency is either teef, which they get from punching each other in the mouth and to the victor goes the spoils, or trading loot they got in war, for other gear they can use to kill things, in order to loot stuff.

    Orks are literally in a classic RPG Loop; Fight stuff to buy stuff to fight harder stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  30. - Top - End - #990
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...Out of things they loot from their enemies, from a war.



    ...Off of things they loot from their enemies, from a war



    ...To make things to fight war better.



    To eat their enemies, in a war.



    Where their currency is either teef, which they get from punching each other in the mouth and to the victor goes the spoils, or trading loot they got in war, for other gear they can use to kill things, in order to loot stuff.

    Orks are literally in a classic RPG Loop; Fight stuff to buy stuff to fight harder stuff.
    I mean. Some Orks also use imperial currency. That they get by acting as Mercenaries and fighting in wars for corrupt imperial officials.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

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