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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I've been catching up on the Horus Heresy novels recently and am coming up on a block of three novels I'm distinctly doubtful about. I'm wary of 'Tallarn' because it doesn't really sound like it advances the over-all plot and I'm not a fan of Peturabo's boys and I'm wary of 'Ruinstorm' and 'Old Earth' because frankly I've hated their authors work when they've appeared in the series before.
    I just wondered if anybody has read these 3 are any of them actually really good or can they be easily skipped ?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Tallarn is completely inconsequential to the Heresy. It tells you how one planet got to be the nuclear wasteland that it is in the 41st millennium - no one of any import has anything to do with it. Skip, it, unless you really, REALLY want to read about Iron Warriors being *******s to Guardsmen.

    Old Earth is yet more about Vulkan wandering about trying to decide what to do before the Siege of Terra. Vulkan hasn't been relevant to the Heresy since Book 4, and canonically he's irrelevant to the outcome of the Siege so unless you REALLY need to know what the Salamanders are doing that isn't "fighting their way to Terra", then skip it.

    Ruinstorm is the story about the death throes of Imperium Secundus, and marks the start of Sanguinius, Guilliman and El'Johnson's voyage to reinforce Terra. Just the start, though - it's really a tale about what slows them down and sort-of explains why Sanguinius gets there so very far ahead of Guilliman.
    It's kind of okay, if you really want to know where everyone is at any given point in the Heresy, but it doesn't really matter - we already know that Sanguinius gets there, fights and dies in the siege, and Guilliman turns up afterwards, so the rest isn't hugely important.

    If you're only going to read one of the three, Ruinstorm is probably it as it's the only one which remotely ties into the grand picture of the galaxy, not just some inconsequential anecdote about one small corner of it.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2018-08-02 at 07:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Ruinstorm also explains (or tries to) why Sanguinius went through with the suicide-by-Horus, even though he has known he would die for several books now.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdarkn

    So, anyone have any tips for fluffing out a Daemon army? I’m currently running multi-God+ CSM Daemon Engines and intend to use them in my store’s first narrative campaign.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    A (potentially demonic) warlord that has managed to gain a few followers from every camp is kind of a classic.

    The promise of conquest, loot and chances to get ahead in life(?) (who knows how it works for demons...) are always a good motivation to join a warband.
    Last edited by Platinius; 2018-08-05 at 08:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinius View Post
    A (potentially demonic) warlord that has managed to gain a few followers from every camp is kind of a classic.

    The promise of conquest, loot and chances to get ahead in life(?) (who knows how it works for demons...) are always a good motivation to join a warband.
    I usually paint my Daemon Engines in Black Legion colors, so I was thinking of a cabal of Daemon Princes+Other Greater Daemons that have joined under Abbadoo’s banner. The core of my lists are blocks of plaguebearers(using poxwalkers as proxies) with a splattering of as many Daemon Engines and bigger guys as I can afford. Mortarion and Zarakynel are known to wander in for big battles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *.*.*.* View Post
    So, anyone have any tips for fluffing out a Daemon army? I’m currently running multi-God+ CSM Daemon Engines and intend to use them in my store’s first narrative campaign.
    When I'm fluffing an army, I tend to write my list, see what is it's biggest feature, and they try to decide where it might have come from.

    If you have a lot of Daemon Engines, my first idea would be something like, a Black Legion Warlord overthrew a minor Forgeworld and immediately set about repurposing it for his own ends.
    Perhaps he used the captured vehicles as bargaining chips in order to prove how cunning and powerful he was, offering them as vessels as he struck bargains and summoned daemons into them? Or maybe he was already being sponsored by someone with far more authority and/or higher up in the pantheon's esteem and it was his job to go and find vessels for already established contracts?

    The latter makes sense if he later because a Daemon Prince - he's fulfilled his part of the contract, and Daemonhood is his reward?

    Similarly, it might help if you decide on the character of your Warlord - being Black Legion is fine, he probably takes orders from one of Abaddon's lieutenants or something. Was he originally Black Legion, though? Or did he start off in another Legion/warband and later joined up? Maybe he was even Renegade - a former loyalist with nothing left to lose?
    Once you know that, you can infer more about his personality, and from there what his goals and intentions might be. I hope that helps, even a little
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdarkn

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    When I'm fluffing an army, I tend to write my list, see what is it's biggest feature, and they try to decide where it might have come from.

    If you have a lot of Daemon Engines, my first idea would be something like, a Black Legion Warlord overthrew a minor Forgeworld and immediately set about repurposing it for his own ends.
    Perhaps he used the captured vehicles as bargaining chips in order to prove how cunning and powerful he was, offering them as vessels as he struck bargains and summoned daemons into them? Or maybe he was already being sponsored by someone with far more authority and/or higher up in the pantheon's esteem and it was his job to go and find vessels for already established contracts?
    And there you also immediately have a reason why your warband is fighting many imperial factions. They have come to retake the Forgeworld.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Fluff for my Deathwatch Kill Team, because it's a game that demands background, damnit!

    Kill Team Enoch


    Team Doctrine: Dominatus Kill Team

    Covert Operation:
    Knowledge is Power

    Team Facet: Xenovendetta (Drukhari)

    Watch Sergeant Enoch - Leader - Murderous
    The leader of the Kill-Team has his origins in the Flesh Tearers Chapter. His brilliant mind is bent towards one task, and one task only, tearing the alien limb from limb. He fights like a knight of old, bashing with his shield as he carves up enemies with an alien-made sword, in which Enoch, when his blood runs cool, sees some poetic justice.

    Brother Castro - Comms - Tactician
    The Crimson Fist right-hand man of the Watch Sergeant does most of the actual leading of the squad. Whilst not as inspiring as Watch Sergeant Enoch, he provides a more level head, which reins in the aggression of their leader. He likes to keep his options open, using his combi-melta for whatever is needed.

    Brother Edgar - Combat - Grim
    Brother Edgar makes jokes far too often, and they are very often in very poor taste. In spite of his nihilistic humour, the Knight of the Raven fights well in a team, swinging his oversized hammer from flanking positions.

    Brother Alpin - Demolitions - Contemptuous
    The Brazen Claw is filled with nought but disdain for their foes, but takes little joy in their destruction, seeing the slaying of alien foes as little more than the extermination of pests, his Frag Cannon being used with a lack of emotion almost bordering on boredom.

    Brother Vitus - Xenobiologist
    Extremely well-traveled, it sometimes seems that this Novamarine has been to every planet in the Imperium, and many more besides. He's an expert on alien languages and biology - it makes it all the easier to kill them with his Frag Cannon.
    Last edited by bluntpencil; 2018-08-07 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdarkn

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    When I'm fluffing an army, I tend to write my list, see what is it's biggest feature, and they try to decide where it might have come from.

    If you have a lot of Daemon Engines, my first idea would be something like, a Black Legion Warlord overthrew a minor Forgeworld and immediately set about repurposing it for his own ends.
    Perhaps he used the captured vehicles as bargaining chips in order to prove how cunning and powerful he was, offering them as vessels as he struck bargains and summoned daemons into them? Or maybe he was already being sponsored by someone with far more authority and/or higher up in the pantheon's esteem and it was his job to go and find vessels for already established contracts?

    The latter makes sense if he later because a Daemon Prince - he's fulfilled his part of the contract, and Daemonhood is his reward?

    Similarly, it might help if you decide on the character of your Warlord - being Black Legion is fine, he probably takes orders from one of Abaddon's lieutenants or something. Was he originally Black Legion, though? Or did he start off in another Legion/warband and later joined up? Maybe he was even Renegade - a former loyalist with nothing left to lose?
    Once you know that, you can infer more about his personality, and from there what his goals and intentions might be. I hope that helps, even a little

    Ooooh, those are some great ideas! Two of my regular and most ‘bitter’ rivals are Admech and Necrons, so that could be a good little mini-narrative for us. IIRC, forgebane says -most- forge worlds are built on Tomb Worlds, correct?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdarkn

    Quote Originally Posted by *.*.*.* View Post
    Ooooh, those are some great ideas! Two of my regular and most ‘bitter’ rivals are Admech and Necrons, so that could be a good little mini-narrative for us. IIRC, forgebane says -most- forge worlds are built on Tomb Worlds, correct?
    Forge Worlds are built anywhere with sufficient local in-system mineral resources to support the forges (at least initially, long-established Forge worlds will have long exhausted their local ores and require imports). The presence or absence of a Necron Tomb has no direct influence, though Necrons built their tombs pretty much anywhere so it's easy enough to have one somewhere in the star system even if it's not coincidentally on the planet itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I think the recent Forgebane book said something about it, I’ll try and get a hold of a friend’s copy.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Making some progress on my backlog of novels, I finally got around to picking up the HH again and finished Path of Heaven.

    It was really good, I liked it a lot which surprised me given that I was fairly critical of the previous WS stuff. It does feel like one of those cases where you need the backstory of the earlier stuff to get the most out of this one, but the question remains - could the previous efforts have been put together better? Probably.

    This one is interesting in that there's still a bunch of world building, but it also progresses the plot, has a significant amount of character development and answers some of the long asked questions for the series in a surprisingly (mostly) sensible manner, with only a relatively few plotholes to marr it. I think this is one of the better books, not just recently*, but in the entire HH (top 10, but probably not top 5). I'd give it an 8/10 and would highly encourage anyone who's read Scars to read this, even if they didn't really enjoy Scars all that much.

    I'm looking forward to both Angels of Caliban and Praetorian of Dorn (and, as one of the few who didn't mind Deliverance, Corax as well to a lesser degree) as the former deals with a mostly unexplored turning point and there's not been a huge amount about the Alphas or the Fists, so more background will be good. Hopefully Angels will be able to break the curse the DA apparently have of being in one bad book after another.

    * For given values of recent since it's well behind the current books

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Making some progress on my backlog of novels, I finally got around to picking up the HH again and finished Path of Heaven.

    It was really good, I liked it a lot which surprised me given that I was fairly critical of the previous WS stuff. It does feel like one of those cases where you need the backstory of the earlier stuff to get the most out of this one, but the question remains - could the previous efforts have been put together better? Probably.

    This one is interesting in that there's still a bunch of world building, but it also progresses the plot, has a significant amount of character development and answers some of the long asked questions for the series in a surprisingly (mostly) sensible manner, with only a relatively few plotholes to marr it. I think this is one of the better books, not just recently*, but in the entire HH (top 10, but probably not top 5). I'd give it an 8/10 and would highly encourage anyone who's read Scars to read this, even if they didn't really enjoy Scars all that much.

    I'm looking forward to both Angels of Caliban and Praetorian of Dorn (and, as one of the few who didn't mind Deliverance, Corax as well to a lesser degree) as the former deals with a mostly unexplored turning point and there's not been a huge amount about the Alphas or the Fists, so more background will be good. Hopefully Angels will be able to break the curse the DA apparently have of being in one bad book after another.

    * For given values of recent since it's well behind the current books
    Corax was imho not a great book, but it has some pretty powerful scenes. It gave me a lot of feels.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    This one is interesting in that there's still a bunch of world building, but it also progresses the plot, has a significant amount of character development and answers some of the long asked questions for the series in a surprisingly (mostly) sensible manner, with only a relatively few plotholes to marr it. I think this is one of the better books, not just recently*, but in the entire HH (top 10, but probably not top 5). I'd give it an 8/10 and would highly encourage anyone who's read Scars to read this, even if they didn't really enjoy Scars all that much.
    Path of Heaven is exceptionally good. Chris Wraight is excellent. I think I was...Tricked...Into thinking he was a mediocre writer, because he spent his early career writing exclusively about Space Wolves. Whilst Wraight's world-building isn't as up to scratch as say...Dan Abnett. He's one of the very best when it comes to character development, and internal monologues. Hell, in Watchers of the Throne, he has a character that doesn't even speak. But we still know exactly what she's about.

    The Imperium doesn't give a **** about the Khagan, and he doesn't give a **** about the Imperium. So why is he fighting? Especially after his Legion is continuously hunted down?

    Revuel Arvida even gets his own epilogue in Last Son of Prospero. Because why would would Wraight leave the untapped character potential of the only loyal Thousand Son just sitting on the table?

    Everything about Path of Heaven is good. Not like...Betrayer good. But coming off the back of Scars, I had no idea how good it would actually be.

    I'm looking forward to both Angels of Caliban and Praetorian of Dorn
    Angels of Caliban is a good story, written by a bad author (Gav).
    Praetorian of Dorn is good. It takes a while to get good. But John French writes his books like movies. In that they build to a climax. But it's still slow-going at first. But, John French is a good author, and I will always read anything he writes - especially when it concerns Imperial Fists.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Angels of Caliban is a good story, written by a bad author (Gav).
    Praetorian of Dorn is good. It takes a while to get good. But John French writes his books like movies. In that they build to a climax. But it's still slow-going at first. But, John French is a good author, and I will always read anything he writes - especially when it concerns Imperial Fists.
    I was fearing the former would be the case.

    As for the latter, I got my John French #1 fanboy shirt a long time ago. I don't think there's been a single one of his books, novels or audio dramas I haven't loved. Controvertial opinion - he's a better writer than ADB. Maybe not as fun or quite as flashy, but better.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Controvertial opinion - [John French is] a better writer than ADB.
    ADB said the same thing, himself, after French finished the Ahriman trilogy.
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    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-08-19 at 01:32 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I, meanwhile, am still slogging through The Crimson King as I have been doing for a couple of months.

    I *want* to enjoy the saga of the Thousand Sons, I *want* to be invested in the return of Magnus the Red in preparation for the Siege of Terra.... But Graham McNeil still writes like his novel came in 5,000 words under its intended count and he had to go back and add more paragraphs of purple prose to every inconsequential event.

    At one point I even timed the audiobook - there's a section which is over 10 minutes long wherein a squad of Marines walk through a "museum", look at some random objects and then walk off again without interacting with any of them. I'm honestly considering giving up on it and just reading the cliff notes before moving on to... *checks next book in the series*... Wolfsbane?
    Oh Christ, maybe not then.....
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I, meanwhile, am still slogging through The Crimson King as I have been doing for a couple of months.

    I *want* to enjoy the saga of the Thousand Sons, I *want* to be invested in the return of Magnus the Red in preparation for the Siege of Terra.... But Graham McNeil still writes like his novel came in 5,000 words under its intended count and he had to go back and add more paragraphs of purple prose to every inconsequential event.

    At one point I even timed the audiobook - there's a section which is over 10 minutes long wherein a squad of Marines walk through a "museum", look at some random objects and then walk off again without interacting with any of them. I'm honestly considering giving up on it and just reading the cliff notes before moving on to... *checks next book in the series*... Wolfsbane?
    Oh Christ, maybe not then.....
    Huh, I thought it was Ruinstorm and Old Terra after that but before Wolfsbane. I liked Ruinstorm, still cant finish Old Terra. Its like swimming through gravel.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I'm not reading Old Terra regardless - I could not care less about Vulkan's angsty meandering and haven't done so since Flight of the Eisenstein. Thanks for the tip on Ruinstorm though, I had completely forgotten about it in the... *checks* ...2 weeks since I recommended it to someone else earlier in the thread.

    In a vaguely related topic: GW have announced The Buried Blade as the last of the Horus Heresy novels before they formerly begin publishing the Siege of Terra cycle.
    At first I thought it a strange move to arbitrarily divide the two unless they were going for another 50 books on the subject, but as I thought more about it then it made more sense. The HH is well over 50 books long, when you also add into account the anthologies, audiodramas and the likes; having a specific event to re-announce the saga is probably a good way of shaking off some cobwebs that have accumulated over the last 10 years or more and grabbing peoples' attention again.

    IIRC, The Buried Blade is to be written by Chris Wraight; it's the story of the Death Guard getting stuck in the warp and striking the notorious deal with Nurgle in order to get to Terra in time for the Siege. The first time that story has been expended upon, and also the first we've seen from DG members apart from Mortarion in a long, long time, so it's shaping up to be good.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I'm not reading Old Terra regardless - I could not care less about Vulkan's angsty meandering and haven't done so since Flight of the Eisenstein. Thanks for the tip on Ruinstorm though, I had completely forgotten about it in the... *checks* ...2 weeks since I recommended it to someone else earlier in the thread.

    In a vaguely related topic: GW have announced The Buried Blade as the last of the Horus Heresy novels before they formerly begin publishing the Siege of Terra cycle.
    At first I thought it a strange move to arbitrarily divide the two unless they were going for another 50 books on the subject, but as I thought more about it then it made more sense. The HH is well over 50 books long, when you also add into account the anthologies, audiodramas and the likes; having a specific event to re-announce the saga is probably a good way of shaking off some cobwebs that have accumulated over the last 10 years or more and grabbing peoples' attention again.

    IIRC, The Buried Blade is to be written by Chris Wraight; it's the story of the Death Guard getting stuck in the warp and striking the notorious deal with Nurgle in order to get to Terra in time for the Siege. The first time that story has been expended upon, and also the first we've seen from DG members apart from Mortarion in a long, long time, so it's shaping up to be good.
    Maybe it's providence, but that's one of the half a dozen plot points that Path of Heaven leads into. You can thank me later for moving the HH along by finally catching up /s

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I believe James Swallow is writing "The Buried Dagger", which is good because it'll have some Garro in, apparently, and Garro is his baby.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I believe James Swallow is writing "The Buried Dagger", which is good because it'll have some Garro in, apparently, and Garro is his baby.
    There ya go, I kept thinking that I had it wrong - I knew it wasn't one of the "Big 5" authors, but am slightly surprised at how badly I mangled the title. Thanks for putting me right.

    I don't think I have read any of Wraight's stuff. I skipped Path of Heaven because I thought it was entirely White Scars-centric but always planned to go back to it when I found out how much it deals with the Burning of Prospero, and I think that I have Watchers of the Throne on a pile somewhere.

    I don't think there's anything of James Swallow's that I have specifically disliked, meanwhile. Even his early stuff, Deus Encarmine and Sanguinius, were pulpy but otherwise decent quality. I'm still optimistic about it.
    You don't know what it was like.
    You weren't there.
    You never fought in the Console Wars.

  25. - Top - End - #295
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    LeSwordfish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Flight Of The Eisenstein stands out to me as my favourite 30K novel (and my favourite non-abnett BL fiction): I really still need to pick up the Garro omnibus. I gave it a good long look in the Black Library store at warhammer world, but then felt a slight dampness on my hip and realised my wallet was sobbing quietly, so I decided not to.
    - Avatar by LCP -

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I don't think I have read any of Wraight's stuff. I skipped Path of Heaven because I thought it was entirely White Scars-centric but always planned to go back to it when I found out how much it deals with the Burning of Prospero, and I think that I have Watchers of the Throne on a pile somewhere.
    While I highly recommend reading Path of Heaven as it's a pretty good book, it has virtually nothing to do with the burning of Prospero. Scars deals with the aftermath a little, but other than having
    Spoiler
    Show
    totally-definately-absolutely-undeniably-Not!Janus
    on board, PoH has almost nothing concerning Prospero in it.

  27. - Top - End - #297
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    To quote a quote in this episode: "You're saying a lot without saying much."

    I mean, it was still extremely entertaining, but it was kind of slow. And of course I don't understand everything that's going on. But I have to ask, is Alfabusa going to merge his timeline with what has been going on since he started these videos? Going back to his most recent special with the two eldar and deldar talking, it seems like he's going to have the Eldar create their new eldar god of death and revive gulliman completely it seems. Anything else you guys want to speculate on what might happen?

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Episode 2 of some Space Marine Fan Animation
    You guys probably have seen it, but enjoy anyway!

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Possibly a dumb question, but Wrath and Glory's release and that game being set firmly after the Indomitus Crusade, I wonder if, in this current edition, the Felinid strain of abhumans are still around, or if they've been scrubbed from canon like the squats (and I'm honestly not sure what the official canon is regarding them either: have they NEVER existed in the current canon, or did they exist at one time and are now extinct thanks to the Tyranids, or have they always been the demiurg in the canon now?)?
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2018-08-28 at 09:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Felinids were in the 6th edition rulebook, so they were real canon. They were actual cat-like humanoids, rather than fetishized catgirls.

    They were given a planet to live on (named Carlos McConnell, which is probably an obscure reference to... something? Maybe the Rogue Trader who discovered the place?), but the location of that planet was never defined so it's impossible to know whether they got Nid'd, or Maelstrom'd, or anything else.

    As for actual Squats, their status has varied. They definitely do exist - there's a special Bounty Hunter character in Necromunda which is explicitly a Squat, and Necromunda is 40k canon - but otherwise they have swung between "never existed" to "they were xenos who were all eaten by the Tyranids save for a few odd refugees" to "they're just abhumans", depending on the writer in question.
    You don't know what it was like.
    You weren't there.
    You never fought in the Console Wars.

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