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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    1.) The Imperium is a Feudal system an autocratic dictatorship. With the Emperor of Mankind High Lords of Terra the ultimate ruler, and each Planetary Governor basically a king Governor who owes fealty to him.
    Fixed that for you.

    2.) The Planetary Governor owns his world, and owns the output thereof. is in charge only for as long as he can pay his Tithes and his citizenry haven't murdered him. Save for those parts he has sub-divided to whatever form of nobility the planet might have the oligarchy on the planet.
    Fixed that for you.

    3.) You don't sell things or buy things from the common man.
    Yes you do.

    4.) As a Rogue Trader, You have a right to anything you can take from outside the Imperium.
    The Inquisition disagrees.

    The idea being that you get certain immunities to tithes
    Absolutely not.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post

    The Inquisition disagrees.


    Absolutely not.
    How does that work for the old Rogue Traders who got their charter straight from the Emperor himself? I thought no living person/authority could over rule that and impose on any activity otherwise permitted by the charter.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    In that case it's usually a matter of them being ridiculously strict about the specific terms and wording of the writ, and doing everything they can to find "technicalities".

    No one has an open writ to go outside of the galactic rim, find xenotech, bring it back and hand it over to Forgeworld Beta-Beta-12, because there's a blanket ban on anyone trading or researching xenotech - but let's just say, for the sake of argument, that one Rogue Trader DOES have a writ that lets him do that. He literally has permission from the Emperor to bring xenotech into the Imperium for study, despite the rest of Imperial Law forbidding such a practice.

    The Inquisition don't HAVE to defy the Emperor's edict to destroy that Rogue Trader.

    If they want to be nice about it, they can simply drown him in red tape. It's one thing to have a writ that says "yeah, you can do this", but every Inquisitor in the sector will stop that Trader and search his ship for contraband at every opportunity. He can be denied docking at planets where he isn't allowed to offload his cargo, he can be stop-and-searched by the Imperial Navy, he can be stop-and-searched by the Arbites, he can have his Navigator contract withdrawn, he can be conscripted into an Imperial Battle Fleet and ordered to carry a million troops into a warzone before he's allowed to resume his normal trading activities.

    None of these things - arguably on a technicality, of course - are defying the writ. They're inconveniencing the Trader, but only because they're "ensuring that he is obeying the law and the writ to the very letter", wink, wink, nudge, nudge, hint, hint.

    And of course, a particularly unhinged Inquisitor might just take it upon himself to decide that the Rogue Trader is wrong - he's been reading his writ incorrectly and what he's doing is NOT what it says, and then blast his ship out of the sky. The Rogue Trader and the writ itself are ash, so there's no evidence to the contrary, and who would try to argue with an Inquisitor bold - or insane - enough to do such a thing in the first place? After all, he's an Inquisitor, the mortal left hand of the Emperor - if HE says that something bad has happened and that he is going to fix the problem... well, obviously he would know, wouldn't he? That's what Inquisitors do.

    To say nothing of the fact that they might just send an assassin to kill the Rogue Trader and have him replaced by someone more amenable to the Inquisition's own desires. Whoever has the writ can decide how it is interpreted, to an extent, and there are plenty of Inquisitors out there who would love to get their hands on a steady supply of xenotech for their own use....

    Does that sound far-fetched and paranoid? That even the Emperor's direct word signed in his own hand can be perverted by those who think they have a better understanding of "what He meant" when he was writing it for their own material profit? Yes, you're absolutely right that it does - welcome to the grim darkness of the far future, where paranoia and treachery are the least of everyone's worries.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2018-08-31 at 07:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    And that is why smart Rogue Traders find powerful allies. Even an Inquisitor has to walk carefully if picking on a Trader means crossing swords with a Lord Admiral of the Navy, a Sector Governor, or even another Inquisitor. The Big I's practical power isnt always equal to its official authority, further adding to the murky complexity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    welcome to the grim darkness of the far future, where paranoia and treachery are the least of everyone's worries.
    Given that Paranoia! predates 40k by a couple of years, I've always wondered if there was eve a little bit of inspiration in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    No one has an open writ to go outside of the galactic rim, find xenotech, bring it back and hand it over to Forgeworld Beta-Beta-12, because there's a blanket ban on anyone trading or researching xenotech - but let's just say, for the sake of argument, that one Rogue Trader DOES have a writ that lets him do that. He literally has permission from the Emperor to bring xenotech into the Imperium for study, despite the rest of Imperial Law forbidding such a practice.
    I thought you had a good point...But then you didn't make the point.

    If there is a Writ that says 'bring xenotech to Forge World BB-12', that's fairly specific and ironclad.
    I have xenotech.
    I take it to BB-12, and they take it off me.
    A wily Rogue Trader might say that the Writ is unspecific about the timeframe between acquisition, and deposition. So, a good Rogue Trader would argue that he can keep any Xenotech indefinitely. But, if he does choose to get rid of it, it must be on/at BB-12.

    However, no such Writ is really that specific...Are they? They're moreso the latter;

    "Bring Xenotech into the Imperium for study."
    Who by? How? When?
    Theoretically, anybody with authority could take the Xenotech 'for study', like, the second that they see it.
    The Inquisition can't arrest you for having Xenotech, because your Writ says it's allowed. But they can arrest you for not giving it to them, pro bono, of course.

    The Inquisition don't HAVE to defy the Emperor's edict to destroy that Rogue Trader.

    he can be conscripted into an Imperial Battle Fleet and ordered to carry a million troops into a warzone before he's allowed to resume his normal trading activities.
    "Does your ship have cannons? ...Ooh. Sorry buddy. Looks like you're going to have to be an intercept between the Hive Fleet and the Planet. Ooh...Sorry maaate. If you don't follow my orders, that makes you a Traitor. Just sayin'."

    And of course, a particularly unhinged Inquisitor might just take it upon himself to decide that the Rogue Trader is wrong [...] The Rogue Trader and the writ itself are ash
    There is no worse idea, than presenting your actual, hard-copy Writ, to someone who is out to get you.
    "Oops. I dropped all my matches, and looks like your Writ is on fire. Too bad, son."

    That even the Emperor's direct word signed in his own hand can be perverted by those who think they have a better understanding of "what He meant" when he was writing it for their own material profit?
    [Insert something board-unsafe about the real world.]
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-09-01 at 05:07 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Given that Paranoia! predates 40k by a couple of years, I've always wondered if there was eve a little bit of inspiration in there.
    I doubt that the two directly inspired each other, but they're both based on extreme interpretations of 1984.
    The difference being that the US looked back to pulpy adventure stories and McCarthyism and came up with parody, whereas the British looked back at the 1970's miner's strikes and failed attempts at fascism and came up with satire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I take it to BB-12, and they take it off me.
    A wily Rogue Trader might say that the Writ is unspecific about the timeframe between acquisition, and deposition. So, a good Rogue Trader would argue that he can keep any Xenotech indefinitely. But, if he does choose to get rid of it, it must be on/at BB-12.
    But let's say that you divert to a planet to pick up food, or fuel, or repairs - now you're not heading to BB12, are you? You're heading to a different planet with a hold full of xenotech, aren't you? Care to explain yourself? Here, sit in this chair while my associate stands behind you while you do so....

    Or maybe you ARE on a direct route to BB-12, but it's supposed to be a 12 week journey and your ship log says you've been in transit for 13 weeks. Care to account for that discrepancy, Captain? Variable warp currents, you say? You seem to know an awful lot about the intricacies of the warp, don't you? Here, have a seat....

    However, no such Writ is really that specific...Are they? They're moreso the latter;
    There's as many writs as there are Rogue Traders. Some of them do restrict the owner to a specific ship, plying a specific route, so to say that NONE could be that specific for the purposes of a plot probably isn't true.

    That's why they High Lords of Terra sometimes force them on political rivals, dooming them to a life of political exile are the arse-end of the galaxy - to be a Rogue Trader is too prestigious a-gift to refuse, but with that comes the responsibility of being a Rogue Trader bound to all the rules and conventions therein.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2018-09-01 at 06:21 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    You're heading to a different planet with a hold full of xenotech, aren't you? Care to explain yourself? Here, sit in this chair while my associate stands behind you while you do so....

    You seem to know an awful lot about the intricacies of the warp, don't you? Here, have a seat....
    That's when you become like Gabriel Seth, and you start growing a collection of Inquisitorial Rosettes.

    to be a Rogue Trader is too prestigious a-gift to refuse, but with that comes the responsibility of being a Rogue Trader bound to all the rules and conventions therein.
    Pretty sure that's exactly how Aladdin put it, too.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    ... he can be conscripted into an Imperial Battle Fleet and ordered to carry a million troops into a warzone before he's allowed to resume his normal trading activities
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    "Does your ship have cannons? ...Ooh. Sorry buddy. Looks like you're going to have to be an intercept between the Hive Fleet and the Planet. Ooh...Sorry maaate. If you don't follow my orders, that makes you a Traitor. Just sayin'."
    It's even easier than that. "Deliver said million troops before [x] date." What? Your ship can only hold 1% of those numbers? Are you defying the direct order of an Inquisitor? That's a paddlin'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    That's when you become like Gabriel Seth, and you start growing a collection of Inquisitorial Rosettes. are a heretic.
    FTFY.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    To continue playing heretics' advocate, the Inquisition is also weaker than it presents itself because it is made up of Inquisitors - individuals who in theory are all equal and incredibly powerful, but in practice vary wildly in temperament, tactics, goals, and most importantly resources. A low-ranked Inquisitor has a lot fewer options for dealing with a Rogue Trader who has annoyed him than a Lord Inquisitor, and a Lord Inquisitor has bigger problems to deal with than one piddly smuggler. And that's before addressing internal tensions, because Inquisitors are often competing among themselves for said resources and credit/prestige. Even two Inquisitors of the same Ordos and Faction have as much odds of being bitter rivals as they are to be close allies; it's entirely possible that an Inquisitor from a different faction might be considered more trustworthy than an 'ally'. Imagine everything you've ever heard about competitive academia but with more guns and flamethrowers - "Sure, ProfessorInquisitor Hildebrand from the physics departmentRadicals is a pompous buffoonborderline heretic, but at least he's not hogging all the grant moneypurity seals." That's one reason why having an Inquisitorial ally is often a Trader's best defense against the Inquisition poking into his business.

    TLDR - this is 40K. There are as many valid and setting-supported reasons for an Inquisitor to be effectively powerless against a particular Rogue Trader's shenanigans as there are reason for him to be able to squash them like a bug.

    Gabriel Seth is another good example of the 'power =/= authority' thing as well, though I would use the Space Wolves as my go-to comparison. They outright went to war with the Inquisition after First Armageddon, and won (with the definition of 'winning' here being 'not Exocommunicated as traitors'). Compared to someone like the Soul Drinkers, who had much less reason to be exiled but weren't an Original Recipe Space Marine chapter and so couldn't stop it.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2018-09-01 at 09:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    That's when you become like Gabriel Seth, and you start growing a collection of Inquisitorial Rosettes.
    Hell, I'd read that as a short story.

    An Inquisitor pulls over a Rogue Trader. He's suspected for years that the RT is smuggling something seriously taboo but until now he's never been able to prove it.

    This time though, he's decided that enough is enough. He's brought with him a starship of his own and a contingent of Arbites/Imperial Navy Marines and he intends to rip the RT's ship apart until he finds out what it is that's being hidden from him.
    While the Marines are going through the manifest and the cargo holds, the Inquisitor has the RT pinned to a couch and interrogated - what are you hiding? Where is it? Where did it come from? How many lights do you see?

    After hours of interrogation, exhausted and bleeding, the RT tells the Inquisitor that what he wants is in the safe behind the secret panel on the wall.
    Triumphant, the Inquisitor walks over, opens the panel, opens the safe, and peers inside. There, sitting on a velvet cushion, are three Inquisitorial rosettes; one of them is still wet with flecks of human blood.

    Behind the Inquisitor, there is a very small, quiet sound. That of a blade being drawn from a hidden sheath....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
    ....the Inquisition is also weaker than it presents itself because it is made up of Inquisitors...
    Replace "Inquisition" and "Inquisitors" with any other faction - Mechanicus, Ecclesiarchy, etc - and the statement is still true. That's the Imperium in a nutshell.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Rogue Traders themselves can have enough power that it's too dangerous for any one Inquisitor to go after them. They can have their own personal fleet, a massive army, and a cadre of tech-priests, psykers, and assassins at their beck and call. Unless you suspect them of something extremely serious, you don't want to take them on.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    So did Trazyn have a Custodes in his collection in the new BFG: Armada trailer? I'd like to know how that happened.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnoc View Post
    So did Trazyn have a Custodes in his collection in the new BFG: Armada trailer? I'd like to know how that happened.
    The sad bit is that until now, everyone was quite certain the 'gigantic Space Marine in baroque power armor' he owned was a missing Primarch. But apparently it's just a Custodian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The sad bit is that until now, everyone was quite certain the 'gigantic Space Marine in baroque power armor' he owned was a missing Primarch. But apparently it's just a Custodian.
    That is actually pretty disappointing. The little hint was I thought just the right amount of Primarch-hinting for GW; unlikely but possible. Oh well.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Trazyn has far more than just one "giant Space Marine in baroque Power Armour" in his collection, apparently. A picture of just one of them might not be conclusive, especially when he seems to know the difference between Loyalist and Traitors, and the various kinds of Eldar. To refer to something as a Space Marine and it not being one is quite unlike him, I feel.

    Hell; after their "joke" about finding plastic Sisters in a bin with Magnus only to formally go "yeah, we really do have plastic Sisters on the way" a few months later, I honestly half expect it to turn out that Trazyn has two more 'giant Space Marines' in his collection and they turn out to be both Corax AND the Khan anyway
    Last edited by Wraith; 2018-09-03 at 04:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Trazyn has far more than just one "giant Space Marine in baroque Power Armour" in his collection, apparently. A picture of just one of them might not be conclusive, especially when he seems to know the difference between Loyalist and Traitors, and the various kinds of Eldar. To refer to something as a Space Marine and it not being one is quite unlike him, I feel.

    Hell; after their "joke" about finding plastic Sisters in a bin with Magnus only to formally go "yeah, we really do have plastic Sisters on the way" a few months later, I honestly half expect it to turn out that Trazyn has two more 'giant Space Marines' in his collection and they turn out to be both Corax AND the Khan anyway
    TBH if he has any Primarchs, it's more likely for it to be Corax and/or the Khan, as an excuse to give them a 40k model.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Please, we all know the Dark Eldar strapped the Khan onto the front of a Venom with a mask and an IV and drive around with him at top speeds while screaming for Asdrubael Vect to WITNESS THEM!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Please, we all know the Dark Eldar strapped the Khan onto the front of a Venom with a mask and an IV and drive around with him at top speeds while screaming for Asdrubael Vect to WITNESS THEM!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll View Post
    TBH if he has any Primarchs, it's more likely for it to be Corax and/or the Khan, as an excuse to give them a 40k model.
    I doubt that it'd be Russ because his nemesis Magnus is out and the next codex coming out is Space Wolves, so if any Primarch is being released I'd expect it to be him; Trying to tell that story while also bringing Necrons into the mix would be pretty convoluted.... Though that's a pretty big assumption on my part, but it feels about right.
    Also he went into the Eye of Terror, aka warpspace, which the Necrons tend to avoid.

    Corax also went into the Eye of Terror. Not that Necrons can't follow, of course, but their tech is all about negating the warp rather than interacting with it.

    Could be Vulkan. Insofar as "giant space marines" go there aren't any bigger - though that could be the double-bluff by GW.

    The Khan is specifically said to have gone into the Webway, to which Trazyn definitely does have access. Capturing him biking through there while on a meander is plausible.

    Rogal Dorn is also a possibility. He's just "gone" in the canon, assuming he's even alive, so being caught in a hypercube is as good an explanation as any.

    Whoever it's supposed to be, it's probably Alpharius anyway, so don't worry about it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    I believe at one point the fluff implied that Vulkan was hunting down some of the same relics as Trazyn (or ones he already owned or something) so I would suggest the smaet money is on him.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I believe at one point the fluff implied that Vulkan was hunting down some of the same relics as Trazyn (or ones he already owned or something) so I would suggest the smaet money is on him.
    Trazyn is after Vulkan's relics, which sort of implies he's looking for Vulkan, though it could also be to complete a captured Vulkan.

  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Fixed that for you.



    Fixed that for you.



    Yes you do.



    The Inquisition disagrees.



    Absolutely not.
    Incredible. Every word you just said is wrong.

    Autocrats don't have systems of checks and balances, the Imperium, as surprising as it is, does. The High Lords of Terra answer to the Inquisition, not the other way around, and yet the Inquisition relies upon the resources of the high lords of Terra to do their job. The Ecclesiarchy has limits on their power, (The whole rules lawyery thing that's the basis for the Sisters of Battle.)

    Sure, the present imperium might be STRETCHING those checks and balances to the breaking point in a despotic cesspit of totalitarianism, but fundamentally there are checks on the High Lords power.

    No you don't, the entire system of Rogue trader presumes you're beyond making individual purchases or sales of anything short of a void ship or a planet.

    And? The Inquisition can't do much to a rogue trader who's not on the outs.

    That's.... literally the advantage of being a Rogue Trader. It's an uncertain gamble that might pay off or might end with you dying ignobly trying to expand the borders of the Imperium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    "Does your ship have cannons? ...Ooh. Sorry buddy. Looks like you're going to have to be an intercept between the Hive Fleet and the Planet. Ooh...Sorry maaate. If you don't follow my orders, that makes you a Traitor. Just sayin'."
    "Void Master, vaporize that man's ship and hurry up the loading of our goods." Because again, Rogue Traders are on equal authority with the inquisition. They are as much the Hands of the Emperor as the Inquisition is. The only difference is in their duties. And if the inquisition takes issue with that, they have to be concerned about causing entire sub-sectors to rise in revolt, a la the Severan Dominate. Because that's what Rogue Traders are for. They're explorers who settle new worlds. They get a set time to make money off a new colony without Tithe as payment for their labors, and then the Tithe Kicks in, and the Administratum has a new world in the fold.

    Yes, a Rogue Trader Dynasty who's been reduced to a single ship? Probably not the best idea to pick a fight with the inquisition. But the AVERAGE Rogue Trader has multiple planets that they outright own, and can for a time at least, outright match the inquisition blow for blow, particularly if they start calling in favors. Because a lot of people get VERY rich off of a Rogue Trader. Which most people can't say the same for inquisitors.
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    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    Because again, Rogue Traders are on equal authority with the inquisition. They are as much the Hands of the Emperor as the Inquisition is.
    No, they're not.

    Because the Inquisition's authority is supreme. They can requisition whatever the hell they want when they want and not pay a single dime, while a Rogue Trader, although quite powerful, can't just arrive at a system and claim command of anything and everything they feel like.

    In the other hand Might does make Right in 40K, so a powerful Rogue Trader could still vaporize a lesser Inquisitor and get away with it, but they better make sure they don't leave any traces behind because the other Inquisitors will be pretty pissed off if they ever find one of them was taken out by said Rogue Trader, whereas a Rogue Trader being vaporized just makes other Rogue Traders go "cool, one less rival".

    But by imperial law, the Inquisitor still sits above any Rogue Trader.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Again, that depends on the Inquisitor. Vaporize a Radical member of the Ordo Hereticus, and a Puritan Hereticus Inquisitor who learns about it will probably applaud the righteous and Emperor-serving execution, and vice versa. Only if the Trader is sloppy enough to leave evidence where a similarly-aligned Inquisitor can find it, or if they are so sloppy that it threatens to become known to the wider Imperium (or worse, a non-Inquisitorial faction), will the Inquisition close ranks to protect their mystique. Traders aren't the only people with rivals among their own kind.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2018-09-04 at 11:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Needing to cover their tracks from most people still is a significant difference, since the Inquisitor can just burn a rogue trader and livestream his dying screams to the whole imperium and they'll get away with it if not applauded.

    EDIT: Besides the Inquisition isn't called that for nothing. Asking questions, following tracks, finding out what's hidden, that's their main job.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2018-09-05 at 01:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Again, that depends on the Inquisitor. Vaporize a Radical member of the Ordo Hereticus, and a Puritan Hereticus Inquisitor who learns about it will probably applaud the righteous and Emperor-serving execution, and vice versa. Only if the Trader is sloppy enough to leave evidence where a similarly-aligned Inquisitor can find it, or if they are so sloppy that it threatens to become known to the wider Imperium (or worse, a non-Inquisitorial faction), will the Inquisition close ranks to protect their mystique. Traders aren't the only people with rivals among their own kind.
    You're not inherently wrong, but I cringe at applying blanket statements to something as varied and abstract as the Inquisition.

    Kill a Puritan, and the Radicals might applaud. That's entirely plausible.

    The opposite is also true - kill a Radical, and the Puritans suddenly decide that an attack on any Inquisitor is an attack on all Inquisitors and such behaviour must be eliminated regardless of who the original victim was. Pretty sure something like that happened in one of the Abnett trilogies, Eisenhorn perhaps.

    Inquisitors are like Rogue Trader writs. Their authority is absolute, provided that a bigger one doesn't come along and overshadow it. Either way, they're all so varied and different from one another that you can pretty much pick any scenario and reliably expect that there will be at least one to fit the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12
    But by imperial law, the Inquisitor still sits above any Rogue Trader.
    Right. Inquisitors are literally outside of the law in most regards and a nigh-impeachable force in the rest. If anything, Rogue Traders are even more heavily bound by it - the normal laws still apply to them (although obviously money talks and RTs tend to be obscenely rich, they can still be caught out) AND they are similarly bound to the terms of their writ.
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  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    The High Lords of Terra answer to the Inquisition...
    No they don't. The Inquisition doesn't do ****.
    Historically, the High Lords only ever answer to pissed off Space Marines (i.e; Imperial Fists and their Successors, the only Astartes Chapters who actually deal with Terra on a regular basis).

    As of now, the High Lords answer to Guilliman. The Inquisition wasn't doing **** to stop the High Lords, and Guilliman proved it when he executed five of them.
    Where was the Inquisition?
    Correct. Doing ****-all.

    The High Lords were autocrats of the highest order. The fact that the law that was supposed to keep them in check, didn't, proves that they were autocrats.

    The Ecclesiarchy has limits on their power
    Don't worry. Guilliman's in the process of disbanding it...If only he could figure out how, without unraveling the entire thread that holds the Imperium together.

    I figure once Cawl pulls the trigger on his plan. Everyone will fall behind Guilliman (when he inevitably wins the Civil War).

    And? The Inquisition can't do much to a rogue trader who's not on the outs.
    The Inquisition, can't.
    An individual Inquisitor can do whatever he wants. His authority extends to wherever he happens to be.

    "Void Master, vaporize that man's ship and hurry up the loading of our goods." Because again, Rogue Traders are on equal authority with the inquisition.
    So...You begin by saying that the Inquisition are above the High Lords (they aren't). But you follow that up saying that Rogue Traders are on the same standing (they aren't).
    I don't quite think you know what you're saying.

    Get declared Excommunicate Hereticus/Traitoris, and you're done. Astartes Cruisers start stopping you. You want to fight Astartes Cruisers?

    Known Astartes-killers don't last too long out in the void.

    They are as much the Hands of the Emperor as the Inquisition is.
    Except that the Inquisition is much bigger, much meaner hand, that dominates all other hands of the Imperium.

    And if the inquisition takes issue with that, they have to be concerned about causing entire sub-sectors to rise in revolt, a la the Severan Dominate.
    Oh noes. Pacification is so difficult.
    How did the Badab War work out for secessionists? And the Renegades had Space Marines on their side.
    Remember how all the secessionists in the Damocles Gulf reacted when they heard that the Imperium was coming back and any planet associated with the T'au was definitely going to get glassed?

    Pacification isn't hard.
    Seven Astartes Drop Pods land on the Governor's Palace. Everyone dies. If there's no Genestealers, who cares?

    But the AVERAGE Rogue Trader has multiple planets that they outright own, and can for a time at least, outright match the inquisition blow for blow, particularly if they start calling in favors.
    In person? A Rogue Trader is the same as everyone else.
    A bullet to the head fixes almost all problems.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2018-09-05 at 06:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    How did the Badab War work out for secessionists? And the Renegades had Space Marines on their side.
    Pretty well actually, the Astral Claws ascended to become the Red Corsairs, a chaos warband so badass they eat loyalist scum battle cruisers and barges for breakfast and even sphech wolves renounce their corpse god when near them. Red Corsairs not only have multiple thousands of chaos space marines (so they not only kill astartes all the time and get away with it) but even got Rowboat Girlyman himself in chains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Remember how all the secessionists in the Damocles Gulf reacted when they heard that the Imperium was coming back and any planet associated with the T'au was definitely going to get glassed?
    The Tau held control of the planets which were still in one piece, so not too shabby by 40k standards.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2018-09-05 at 06:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    But the AVERAGE Rogue Trader has multiple planets that they outright own,
    I don't think this is true. In fact, the only rogue traders I can think of that own any planets are those that are explicitly called out as being the highest grade - those used as examples of questgiver NPCs in the Rogue Trader rulebook, etc. I think it's probably above average for a Rogue Trader to have even a single colony.
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