Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hey guys. I'm about to start my first Rogue Trader game, and since my only experience is DnD and this is drastically different, I was hoping for some advice on character building? My first character is going to be an Arch - Militant, which I understand is specialized in weaponry. Any type of weapons I should choose to focus on or any specific build?

You may want to ask for advice in this thread instead, for specifics from Rogue Trader's rules. This thread's more about the overall 40K universe's narrative stuff and whatnot.

[Silverraptor]

Okay, the group I'm with is helping me make my character. Now I would like to ask for backstory of the lore of the Calixis sector and the kronos expanse. All I know from seeing it on the galactic map is that the eye of terror is between the sector and terra, and the tau really shouldn't be there given it is in the far, far north west of the galaxy, yet are apparently a prominent presence in this sector.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't think the Tau have any real presence in the Koronus Expanse, or the Calixis Sector. There's one published adventure featuring a Tau expeditionary force in the Expanse, but they're very much called out as a long way from home. They've got a fair presence in the Jericho Reach, but that is an entirely different part of the galaxy.

For info about the Calixis sector, I'd either consult the various DH sourcebooks entirely, or just go to the aggregate and read up on Lexicanum.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Calixis_Sector

[Wraith]

Hey guys. I'm about to start my first Rogue Trader game, and since my only experience is DnD and this is drastically different, I was hoping for some advice on character building? My first character is going to be an Arch - Militant, which I understand is specialized in weaponry. Any type of weapons I should choose to focus on or any specific build?

Honestly, Arch-Militants are pretty straight-forward; they're the traditional "fighter" of the group, so the easiest way to build them is to look through the equipment section of the book, pick out your favourite, and then buy skills that let you use it well. You can't go far wrong, so long as you're fighting in a way that you enjoy (melee, ranged, or a mix of the two).

Generally speaking in Rogue Trader, you can't go wrong by starting with a chainsword and upgrading to a power sword when you can, and combining that with a powerful pistol - bolt or plasma for preference, but melta and needle are also good if expensive alternatives - should set you up until you find something particularly interesting to play with.

Just accept that you'll never be as good-a sniper as the Assassins or as good in melee as an Astartes, but as a very competent blend of the two you'll be fine. As with any RPG, when playing a "fighter" it's your personality that matters more than the gear or skills because that's what'll make it different and memorable.

[The Glyphstone]

Or you can go the other way and become Heavy Weapons Guy, specializing in maximum Boom. Take the Hand of War origin path point for a free Heavy Weapon Training talent, spend your starting acquisition on a suitably badass gun. I'm very fond of the Autocannon myself, it's an excellently versatile midpoint of range, firepower, and rate of fire. Missile Launchers are another good pick, with the most versatile selection of specialty ammunition in the game - more expensive for that reason though. If you go this route, your first item to Acquire should be a Suspensor rig for your gun.

[Xenopax]

If you wanna be a good melee you should grab a chainfist and a power sword. Grab the swift strike and Lightminh attack talents along with furious assault. Take best synth muscle too. Tox dispenser it and exterminator cartridge it all. As long as you get decent rolls, and have some nice armor, you'll be able to defeat the average rank and file space marine in a melee fight. Or you could take the easy way out and become a Wyrdling Mutant for Forcesword.

[Destro_Yersul]

Easily the most hilarious option is what I dubbed the Nonsense Cannon. Taking a plasma cannon with Starflare Vents results in a weapon that has both Flame and Blast and, going by a strict interpretation of the rules as written, centers a small plasma explosion on everyone hit by the flame spray which, because it's a heavy weapon, has a range of 30m even after the 75% reduction the vents cause. When fired on Maximal setting, it is an absolutely ridiculous gun that will kill the living daylights out of pretty much everything, and as-written hits everything in a group of clustered enemies more than once.

It probably shouldn't do that, but technically it does.

[Silverraptor]

Or you can go the other way and become Heavy Weapons Guy, specializing in maximum Boom. Take the Hand of War origin path point for a free Heavy Weapon Training talent, spend your starting acquisition on a suitably badass gun. I'm very fond of the Autocannon myself, it's an excellently versatile midpoint of range, firepower, and rate of fire. Missile Launchers are another good pick, with the most versatile selection of specialty ammunition in the game - more expensive for that reason though. If you go this route, your first item to Acquire should be a Suspensor rig for your gun.

Hah! I like this! Yeah, I'm focusing more on the Ballistic Weapons skill. I have the hellgun for my current Asta-militant. But I would love to use either a bolter or an autocannon.

Easily the most hilarious option is what I dubbed the Nonsense Cannon. Taking a plasma cannon with Starflare Vents results in a weapon that has both Flame and Blast and, going by a strict interpretation of the rules as written, centers a small plasma explosion on everyone hit by the flame spray which, because it's a heavy weapon, has a range of 30m even after the 75% reduction the vents cause. When fired on Maximal setting, it is an absolutely ridiculous gun that will kill the living daylights out of pretty much everything, and as-written hits everything in a group of clustered enemies more than once.

It probably shouldn't do that, but technically it does.

That is easily the best thing I heard of. I would like to create this at some point.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

If I've ever heard of a sure-fire way to get the attention of the Mechanicus, it'd be a gun that does that.

[Grim Portent]

Been a while since I looked at RT stuff. Archmilitant gets +10 to hit with one of the weapon classes, melee, pistol, basic, heavy or exotic as I recall.

Destro already mentioned one of the funner weapon ideas, but you can do a few other things with the right upgrades.

I forget my book names these days since it's been a while but one contains a scope that increases max range and a very good sniper rifle, which can combine into a max range of over a kilometre. Micro lets you make basic weapons into pistols but cuts the range and damage, but you can make pistol class grenade launchers* and other fun things. Think it's the same book the Starflare Vents upgrade is from.

Was always more into Astropath/mutant Explorator psyker cheesemongering for RT though. So many wonderful psychic disciplines to toy with in that game.

*Which can then be put into an Explorators weapon mechadendrites.

[Destro_Yersul]

Another fairly amusing option if the GM allows for cross-system stuff is applying the Carbine modification from Only War to the Archeotech laspistol. Carbine changes type to basic and multiplies base range by 1.5. For most things, this is not really a big deal. Doing it to the archeotech laspistol specifically results in what is essentially a superior long-las.

If I've ever heard of a sure-fire way to get the attention of the Mechanicus, it'd be a gun that does that.

This is accurate. Starflare Vents are slightly tech-heresy, but as long as they don't see you fire it you should be ok.

[Cheesegear]

Taking a plasma cannon with Starflare Vents [...] it's a heavy weapon, has a range of 30m

That's when I, as a GM, start writing encounters that take place 35m away. I have found that no matter what 40K RPG system I play, very few of my players' parties have been able to deal effectively with Snipers.

This is accurate. Starflare Vents are slightly tech-heresy, but as long as they don't see you fire it you should be ok.

You must be new to Heresy. The first rule of Heresy is 'No Witnesses'.

[Destro_Yersul]

That's when I, as a GM, start writing encounters that take place 35m away. I have found that no matter what 40K RPG system I play, very few of my players' parties have been able to deal effectively with Snipers.

This is Rogue Trader. The way to deal with snipers is a gun-cutter. Or more snipers. You have enough money for both.

[deuterio12]

You must be new to Heresy. The first rule of Heresy is 'No Witnesses'.

The First Heretic didn't care about such rule and ended up getting about half of the emprah's kids to join the heresy side. Neither the Red Corsairs when boarding space furry ships and converting the loyalist scum inside. Witnesses just means potential new recruits.

[DataNinja]

The First Heretic didn't care about such rule and ended up getting about half of the emprah's kids to join the heresy side. Neither the Red Corsairs when boarding space furry ships and converting the loyalist scum inside. Witnesses just means potential new recruits.

Glossing over the whole fact that people would likely take you more seriously if you didn't use obnoxious joke terminology every time, "Heresy" is not a monolith.

You've got the things that tradition says you're not supposed to do, but are really only bad because they're against tradition (see: using scavenged xenotech). This was the heresy discussed with the plasma vents. It's the one that you want to keep secret, because you want to keep using it, and it's not hurting anyone (probably). It's just something that'll get you in trouble.

Then you've got the actually problematic stuff that erodes the structure of the imperium, and moves to empower Chaos, or some xenos faction, or something like that. That's the stuff that the problem-heretic wants to spread in a controlled fashion.

[deuterio12]

Glossing over the whole fact that people would likely take you more seriously if you didn't use obnoxious joke terminology every time, "Heresy" is not a monolith.

You've got the things that tradition says you're not supposed to do, but are really only bad because they're against tradition (see: using scavenged xenotech). This was the heresy discussed with the plasma vents. It's the one that you want to keep secret, because you want to keep using it, and it's not hurting anyone (probably). It's just something that'll get you in trouble.

Then you've got the actually problematic stuff that erodes the structure of the imperium, and moves to empower Chaos, or some xenos faction, or something like that. That's the stuff that the problem-heretic wants to spread in a controlled fashion.

There's no pratical difference. Lots of heretic warbands see chaos as just another tool to empower their arsenal. Even Word Bearers when facing nids went "wee, glad we can summon the powers of the warp to help us or those space bugs would be kinda unstoppable". Heck, there was even that story where a DA librarian summons a bloodthirster to fight against nids so they fully agree in that point. Radical inquisitors summon daemons all the time in the name of protecting the imperium too while GKs themselves go around with daemonic weapons and explicitly wielding chaos sorcery.

[LeSwordfish]

Heck, there was even that story where a DA librarian summons a bloodthirster to fight against nids so they fully agree in that point.

Citation please, because i remember a lot of fuss being made about this despite the fact that it was in a white dwarf battle report, which strikes me as no more canon than little jimmy's open play army.

[Cheesegear]

Heck, there was even that story where a DA librarian summons a bloodthirster to fight against nids so they fully agree in that point.

Do you mean that time Ka'Bandha showed up to wreck the Tyranids, so that he would be the one to wreck Baal? ...And then he did?
No-one Summoned him. He's Ka'Bandha. He came of his own accord to kill Blood Angels. It's what he does. The fact that he had to mow through Tyranids to do it, though, doesn't really change things.

Radical inquisitors summon daemons all the time in the name of protecting the imperium too...

I liked how you used the word 'Radical' without actually taking into account how having that title is actually a bad thing.

while GKs themselves go around with daemonic weapons

Are you specifically referring to Crowe? And if you are, are you deliberately ignoring the backstory of why he has it, and what he actually does with it?
...I mean...Of course you are. Carry on.

and explicitly wielding chaos sorcery.

Classic deuterio.

[Destro_Yersul]

Are you specifically referring to Crowe? And if you are, are you deliberately ignoring the backstory of why he has it, and what he actually does with it?
...I mean...Of course you are. Carry on.

But Cheesegear, how are we supposed to accept that there's no difference between unsanctioned gun modifications and literal actual daemon summoning if we can't ignore inconvenient things like facts?

[Cheesegear]

But Cheesegear, how are we supposed to accept that there's no difference between unsanctioned gun modifications and literal actual daemon summoning...

What's worse; A Heretic/Witch, a Xeno, or a Daemon?
Trick question. They're all bad and deserve to die equally #Imperium #Humanity #Emperor.

Now if you're an Aeldari Farseer with an Avatar of Khaine, you've hit the Trifecta of Awful, and Aeldari are the worst. Fact. What kind of idiot Xeno Witch would also consort with Daemons?

[The Glyphstone]

What's worse; A Heretic/Witch, a Xeno, or a Daemon?
Trick question. They're all bad and deserve to die equally #Imperium #Humanity #Emperor.

Now if you're an Aeldari Farseer with an Avatar of Khaine, you've hit the Trifecta of Awful, and Aeldari are the worst. Fact. What kind of idiot Xeno Witch would also consort with Daemons?

The Heretic can harm your body, and so deserves to die.

The Xenos can harm your body and poison your mind, and so deserves to die.

The Daemon can harm your body, poison your mind, and corrupt your very soul, and so deserves to die.

[Destro_Yersul]

What's worse; A Heretic/Witch, a Xeno, or a Daemon?
Trick question. They're all bad and deserve to die equally #Imperium #Humanity #Emperor.

Now if you're an Aeldari Farseer with an Avatar of Khaine, you've hit the Trifecta of Awful, and Aeldari are the worst. Fact. What kind of idiot Xeno Witch would also consort with Daemons?

Attempting to understand the deranged mind of the Xenos? That's a paddlin'

Unless you're the Inquisition, in which case it's your job.

[Wraith]

What kind of idiot Xeno Witch would also consort with Daemons?

Bronislaw Chevac: *shyly raises a hand*
Gregor Eisenhorn: *shyly raises a hand*
Gideon Ravenor: "....."
BC: ".....?"
GE: "...Gideon?"
GR: "Just pretend that it's up, will you? Why do you have to embarrass me like this?"

[Drasius]

Bronislaw Chevac: *shyly raises a hand*
Gregor Eisenhorn: *shyly raises a hand*
Gideon Ravenor: "....."
BC: ".....?"
GE: "...Gideon?"
GR: "Just pretend that it's up, will you? Why do you have to embarrass me like this?"

They're not Xenos though, so, ya know, it's totally different.

[Wraith]

Two of them spent a not-insignificant amount of time living on a Craftworld and/or an Exodite World, being tutored by a Farseer. That's Xenos enough, for most people.

[Destro_Yersul]

Excommunicate Traitoris all around!

[Drasius]

Grabbed a couple of audio dramas to listen to on a long trip the new Ahriman one (key of infinity) which has the title story (which was great but too short) along with the audio version of the assassination of Gabriel Seth (it's just as good as the written version, which was great), a so-bad-it's-good relictors vs death guard story (heart of decay) where the death guard VA is clearly having tremendous fun hamming it up to a ludicrous degree and a very forgettable relictors and DA story (rage of Asmodai) that felt a bit off and out of place.
My only other complaint beyond the crappy Asmodai story is that they used a new narrator. The narrator isn't bad per se, it's just he's not as good as the guy who has done literally every single other audio so far.

I also grabbed the Corsair : the face of the void, which turned out to be not what I expected, but was a decent enough effort. There were a few too many references to out of universe jokes and meme for my liking, but the characters were likeable enough. The main thing is though is that it's all about a rogue trader and her motley crew and I recall some posters chasing some info on that, so I would suggest grabbing a copy.

[Silverraptor]

This was beautiful!

[deuterio12]

What's worse; A Heretic/Witch, a Xeno, or a Daemon?
Trick question. They're all bad and deserve to die equally #Imperium #Humanity #Emperor.

So you're saying that BA are filthy heretics for symphatizing with foul necron xenos. No wonder BA get along so well with daemons too.

[lord_khaine]

What's worse; A Heretic/Witch, a Xeno, or a Daemon?
Trick question. They're all bad and deserve to die equally #Imperium #Humanity #Emperor.

Now if you're an Aeldari Farseer with an Avatar of Khaine, you've hit the Trifecta of Awful, and Aeldari are the worst. Fact. What kind of idiot Xeno Witch would also consort with Daemons?

Trick question because a Heretic and a Witch is not the same!
Of course that kinda ruins the trifecta example, but i guess thats only deserved.