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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    Y-You aren't going to argue with me about it? You can't do that! That's not how the internet works!

    Hurrah new episode.
    Note that our respective statements don't actually contradict each other

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    For what it's worth, most of the stories add up to agree that you're both broadly right.

    Psykers draw on the warp's powers, using their will to 'pull' it through to the material realm and shape it into the effect that they need. It's not usually something that can happen without effort; if the warp could enter of it's own volition, it would do it all the time.

    There does come a point, however, where the warp takes it's opportunity and forces it's way out despite the psyker's best efforts. This usually happens when the psyker is trying something risky or tries to pull on too much power that they can handle, but also happens when the psyker is unwary or untrained and is caught at a moment of weakness. This event is a prelude to a full-blown warp incursion that can occasionally end a world.

    So, yeah. Warp power has to be pulled through, at least to begin with, but it takes more effort to stop the flow once it has begun.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    It's like turning a stiff high pressure water tap in some ways. Hard to get it open, harder to get it closed.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Now for a harder question. What color is the warp (mostly)?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Generally raw warp phenomena are dark blue and purples through to pinks*. The Eye of Terror is usually portrayed as purple and blue, I think the Screaming Vortex is yellow with purple edges. The Maelstrom appears to be yellow in art. Lesser warp storms are almost always purple.

    Now none of that tells us the colour of the actual Warp, only how it looks in realspace. In the Warp itself it's probably not got a real colour as such as colour probably doesn't exist there.


    *Purple and blue are often used for dark/entropic magics and the far reaches of space in fiction, which is probably where this comes from, contrast the Necrons green light association and how green light is usually shorthand for necromancy because it looks eery.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    Now for a harder question. What color is the warp (mostly)?
    The same as Octarine: a kind of Greenish-Purple.
    (The joke being that green+purple = black/white, since they're opposites on the colour wheel.)
    Last edited by Voidhawk; 2018-07-05 at 09:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    sounds like the color of vomit. New Question!
    The Emperor is a (Warp) god. Agree or disagree? and what do you think his godly form/portfolio will be like? (Like Khorne is god of Blood skulls and is a red giant in armor)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timble View Post
    when an imperial knight says it wants to stick you in a large arena in which to fight to the death, you can't exactly say no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    The Emperor is a (Warp) god. Agree or disagree?
    What?

    and what do you think his godly form/portfolio will be like?
    The Emperor looks like exactly what he looks like.
    His portfolio is punching aliens and recidivists in the face, and Supreme Xenophobia.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Cheese is of course joking there.
    We know from This reliable source that the emperors favorite activity is being a d*** to others. And his favorite color is gold.

    So he will of course manifest in the warp as something that at first glance looks like a massive, shinning, golden banana.

    Then you realise its -not- a banana, and that you cant unsee what you had just seen..
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    He's the Chaos god of Order.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    The Emperor is a (Warp) god. Agree or disagree? and what do you think his godly form/portfolio will be like? (Like Khorne is god of Blood skulls and is a red giant in armor)
    The Emperor is not a warp god.... Though he absolutely could become one once humanity reaches it's optimum psychic capacity like the Eldar did and created Slaanesh/Ynnaed. Assuming they survive that long, of course.

    His appearance would feature a lot of gold with a beautific crown around his head, because that's how he is usually depicted to humans, and in the warp belief defines form. His portfolio would be "human supremacy", which sounds like a catch-all term for a lot of things but really just makes him like Gorkamorka in that he would be one being with several aspects (brutal kunnin' or kunnin' brutality, anyone?) depending on what you were asking for.

    He might also have an iron skull-mask over half of his face, depending on whether or not the Adeptus Mechanicus get their way. There's probably not enough of them to make THAT much of a difference in his personality overall, but a minor concession is likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    He's the Chaos god of Order.
    That would technically be Nurgle. He's diametrically opposed to Tzeentch, as he guarantees the eternally predictable cycle of life, death and renewal.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    sounds like the color of vomit. New Question!
    The Emperor is a (Warp) god. Agree or disagree? and what do you think his godly form/portfolio will be like? (Like Khorne is god of Blood skulls and is a red giant in armor)
    Not yet, but getting there.

    He would look like a giant Custodes basically, and his 'portolio' would be humanity.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The Emperor is not a warp god.... Though he absolutely could become one once humanity reaches it's optimum psychic capacity like the Eldar did and created Slaanesh/Ynnaed. Assuming they survive that long, of course.

    His appearance would feature a lot of gold with a beautific crown around his head, because that's how he is usually depicted to humans, and in the warp belief defines form. His portfolio would be "human supremacy", which sounds like a catch-all term for a lot of things but really just makes him like Gorkamorka in that he would be one being with several aspects (brutal kunnin' or kunnin' brutality, anyone?) depending on what you were asking for.

    He might also have an iron skull-mask over half of his face, depending on whether or not the Adeptus Mechanicus get their way. There's probably not enough of them to make THAT much of a difference in his personality overall, but a minor concession is likely.



    That would technically be Nurgle. He's diametrically opposed to Tzeentch, as he guarantees the eternally predictable cycle of life, death and renewal.
    I feel like that isn't grim dark enough. My opinion is that he'd be the God of Xenophobia and Stifling Order. Since that's how the Imperium sees him. The Emperor himself might not hate Mutants but since everybody thinks he does + Warp shenanigins = He now hates Mutants.

    Nurgles the chaos God of Order? I thought he was the Chaos God of breaking down Order. But my fluff knowledge is weak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timble View Post
    when an imperial knight says it wants to stick you in a large arena in which to fight to the death, you can't exactly say no.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Nurgle isn't the god of Order so much as he is the god of Entropy, Decay, and Stasis. Being a Chaos God, he can't really be Orderly, but he can embrace and support the idea of nothing changing ever (except downwards towards the inevitability of death), which puts him in direct opposition to Tzeentch's desire to have everything changing as much as possible and as often as possible. Between the two of them, Nurgle and Tzeentch do fuel the cycle of life, death, and renewal as mentioned - but they hate that and want the equation to be as unbalanced in their favor as possible, disrupting the status quo.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2018-07-06 at 05:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinius View Post
    On to some genetics:
    To save on biomasse and energy, giving every single 'nid the entire genetic blueprint is very inefficient. However, giving them their core characteristics (all gaunts would usually get horma and therma strains) and perhaps a basic warrior strain, so they can morph into the next biggest from, should the need arise. The idea is morphing an existing creature with a similar enough structure is faster and/or more cost efficient should a need arise, but to morph further, they would need to go back to a hive and get some sweet, sweet gene therapy to increase their morphing range. That way, the hive can do the same thing again should the need arise.
    A Hive tyrant carries every single strain, so long as a tyrant survives, it can relatively quickly rejuvenate the local hive.
    Every more standard 'nid has the ability to at least absorb other tyranid genetic material. That way, given time and enough biomass/fuel (should a hive be badly damaged and has to go "underground" so to speak) a single gaunt that takes enough bites out of the other dead 'nids of varies subtypes, can become a new hive tyrant.
    Every strain of 'nid is made for very specific jobs. Gaunts and Warriors are the most versatile of the standard 'nids, but ehrefore lack a bit in punsh. Zoanthropes are very specific things and do only 2 things, relay commands and psychic artillery. Without a guiding will, they will eventually simply wander off and follow their most basic survival instincts and given that they lack most essential digestive systems to survive outside the hive, they will just die.
    Good thoughts and TY (as well as to Voidhawk for his extensive reply).

    One comment on the genetic structures. As we saw during The Anphelion Project, creatures as lowly as an unspecified tunneling unit (I suspect either a ripper or ravager to be consistent with what we know they were experimenting on) has the capacity to begin restarting the hive without any external support/stimulus. This raises some questions about what type of support they really need, or at least how quickly they can revert to some other unspecified role.

    Anyway, the big reason I brought up The Anphelion Project was because from whatever the lowly creatures were, the Nids were eventually able to rebuild up to their biotitans (Hierophants). Subsequently the genetic knowledge each unit carries has to be pretty extensive.

    I vaguely recall some story about deathwatch catching a lictor or something and using it's genetic structure to engineer a hive strain specific toxin that killed off the strain/fleet (which resulted in tons of new nord queens being born after the death of the original). I don't recall the details but further evidence I think of individual creatures having a very broad spectrum of genetic info at their disposal.

    Kinda why the ending of Extermination is a big belly flop for the BA, sure, they trashed the solar system and planets, but the nids on the planet survived and will rebuild from just the lowly rippers (similar to Orks in some ways)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    I vaguely recall some story about deathwatch catching a lictor or something and using it's genetic structure to engineer a hive strain specific toxin that killed off the strain/fleet (which resulted in tons of new nord queens being born after the death of the original). I don't recall the details but further evidence I think of individual creatures having a very broad spectrum of genetic info at their disposal.
    That is a thing that Deathwatch do, yes. Get live sample => Gengineer poison specific to the organism.

    Kinda why the ending of Extermination is a big belly flop for the BA, sure, they trashed the solar system and planets, but the nids on the planet survived and will rebuild from just the lowly rippers (similar to Orks in some ways)
    Which is ultimately why I stopped my Let's Read. Because the ending of Shield of Baal was (almost) literally 'This entire story was completely pointless.'
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

    Regarding Khorne v Khaine.

    Why does it matter? I mean.. if they are different, or they are merely aspects of the same Warp entity, does it make any difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Regarding Khorne v Khaine.

    Why does it matter? I mean.. if they are different, or they are merely aspects of the same Warp entity, does it make any difference?
    Because Khaine and Khorne being the same being, hinges on coincidence and bad storytelling.
    It makes the 'verse smaller, not larger.

    It means that the Aeldari are simply another Faction of Chaos. The whole point of redeeming themselves for creating Slaanesh falls apart the instant you decide that they are, instead, fighting for Khorne. Trading one Devil, for another, and undermining their entire history since The Fall. It's stupid, and bad, and actually undoes major plot points regarding the War in Heaven, the birth of Slaanesh, and retcons the entire Eldar Pantheon.

    If Khaine is a Chaos God, then how the **** does that work with the rest of the Pantheon? There's Isha and Cegorach. Obviously. Now you have to start jamming them into the half-baked theory. Then you also have factor in Kurnos and Vaul. Oh wait...How does Asuryan work? The instant you think a little bit harder than 'both war gods', 'both have similar sounding names', you start unraveling entire sections of established fluff just to make it fit your theory, which isn't supported by anything except coincidence. Khaine doesn't exist in a vacuum.

    Unless you want to go real Grim Derp...
    Where everything is totally pointless, The Emperor is also a Chaos God, full of Spite, and oh wait. The Emperor must also be Khorne, because his portfolio is also killing people. Remember the Cadian Pylons and what happened to Celestine? Definitely a Daemon Prince. While we're at it, Nightbringer is also Khorne. Everything, across all Factions, are all the same aspect of the same entity - Khorne. Does it make any difference? Who cares if the story is ****, now. Because it fits the theory I want. Which is that everything is Khorne.

    Dark Eldar love blood, so Slaanesh is also Khorne.
    Blood Angels and their Successors also are heavily tied to blood in various ways - also Khorne.

    Everything is Khorne. Because I want to be. Because using superficial similarities, I can make anything fit anything. Therefore, Khaine is Khorne. The Emperor is Khorne. Slaanesh is Khorne. Asuryan is also Khorne. Who cares? Books don't matter. Despite canonically not being tied to the Warp in any way...Gork is also Khorne. Because why not? What difference does it make?

    The Phoenix Lords are also Chaos Champions. It doesn't say they aren't. So they definitely are. No, see, who cares if undermines what makes Phoenix Lords special, and kind of a signature piece of Aeldari lore. They can resurrect themselves, and are almost exclusively fighting wars at almost all times. Therefore, Khorne Champions. Like Kharn? You know that guy? He's basically a Phoenix Lord. Oh? What? Armour? No. See, established fluff doesn't matter. I'm only working off superficial coincidences. Actual canon doesn't matter at this point. See, in my head, it's actually more interesting if everything is exactly the same, and that only happens if I ignore huge sections of fluff...Which I'm doing. So, nyer.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Good thoughts and TY (as well as to Voidhawk for his extensive reply).

    One comment on the genetic structures. As we saw during The Anphelion Project, creatures as lowly as an unspecified tunneling unit (I suspect either a ripper or ravager to be consistent with what we know they were experimenting on) has the capacity to begin restarting the hive without any external support/stimulus. This raises some questions about what type of support they really need, or at least how quickly they can revert to some other unspecified role.
    What I got from The Devastation of Baal was that there are no real tyranid organisms. There is one multi-organic being, which is the Hive Mind. Every other gribbly is just a 'cell' of this macro-organism. So, much like you can get full DNA from a strand of hair to make, say, a liver or a hearth, you can get everything from a Ripper to make a Hierophant. It is unclear how the Hive Mind reaches those abandoned 'hairs', but thats how Lictors operate, far away from the main hive, yet still a part of it. Unlike Genestealers, but thats something else entirely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Unless you want to go real Grim Derp...
    Where everything is totally pointless, The Emperor is also a Chaos God, full of Spite, and oh wait. The Emperor must also be Khorne, because his portfolio is also killing people. Remember the Cadian Pylons and what happened to Celestine? Definitely a Daemon Prince. While we're at it, Nightbringer is also Khorne. Everything, across all Factions, are all the same aspect of the same entity - Khorne. Does it make any difference? Who cares if the story is ****, now. Because it fits the theory I want. Which is that everything is Khorne.

    Dark Eldar love blood, so Slaanesh is also Khorne.
    Blood Angels and their Successors also are heavily tied to blood in various ways - also Khorne.

    Everything is Khorne. Because I want to be. Because using superficial similarities, I can make anything fit anything. Therefore, Khaine is Khorne. The Emperor is Khorne. Slaanesh is Khorne. Asuryan is also Khorne. Who cares? Books don't matter. Despite canonically not being tied to the Warp in any way...Gork is also Khorne. Because why not? What difference does it make?

    The Phoenix Lords are also Chaos Champions. It doesn't say they aren't. So they definitely are. No, see, who cares if undermines what makes Phoenix Lords special, and kind of a signature piece of Aeldari lore. They can resurrect themselves, and are almost exclusively fighting wars at almost all times. Therefore, Khorne Champions. Like Kharn? You know that guy? He's basically a Phoenix Lord. Oh? What? Armour? No. See, established fluff doesn't matter. I'm only working off superficial coincidences. Actual canon doesn't matter at this point. See, in my head, it's actually more interesting if everything is exactly the same, and that only happens if I ignore huge sections of fluff...Which I'm doing. So, nyer.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Nurgle isn't the god of Order so much as he is the god of Entropy, Decay, and Stasis. Being a Chaos God, he can't really be Orderly, but he can embrace and support the idea of nothing changing ever (except downwards towards the inevitability of death), which puts him in direct opposition to Tzeentch's desire to have everything changing as much as possible and as often as possible. Between the two of them, Nurgle and Tzeentch do fuel the cycle of life, death, and renewal as mentioned - but they hate that and want the equation to be as unbalanced in their favor as possible, disrupting the status quo.
    Isn't Nurgle also the God of Life, Determination, and Survival? He loves life and enjoys spreading it across the universe. He just doesn't see why multi-cellular life is such a big deal. He's all about the little guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Because Khaine and Khorne being the same being, hinges on coincidence and bad storytelling.
    It makes the 'verse smaller, not larger.

    It means that the Aeldari are simply another Faction of Chaos. The whole point of redeeming themselves for creating Slaanesh falls apart the instant you decide that they are, instead, fighting for Khorne. Trading one Devil, for another, and undermining their entire history since The Fall. It's stupid, and bad, and actually undoes major plot points regarding the War in Heaven, the birth of Slaanesh, and retcons the entire Eldar Pantheon.

    If Khaine is a Chaos God, then how the **** does that work with the rest of the Pantheon? There's Isha and Cegorach. Obviously. Now you have to start jamming them into the half-baked theory. Then you also have factor in Kurnos and Vaul. Oh wait...How does Asuryan work? The instant you think a little bit harder than 'both war gods', 'both have similar sounding names', you start unraveling entire sections of established fluff just to make it fit your theory, which isn't supported by anything except coincidence. Khaine doesn't exist in a vacuum.

    Unless you want to go real Grim Derp...
    Where everything is totally pointless, The Emperor is also a Chaos God, full of Spite, and oh wait. The Emperor must also be Khorne, because his portfolio is also killing people. Remember the Cadian Pylons and what happened to Celestine? Definitely a Daemon Prince. While we're at it, Nightbringer is also Khorne. Everything, across all Factions, are all the same aspect of the same entity - Khorne. Does it make any difference? Who cares if the story is ****, now. Because it fits the theory I want. Which is that everything is Khorne.

    Dark Eldar love blood, so Slaanesh is also Khorne.
    Blood Angels and their Successors also are heavily tied to blood in various ways - also Khorne.

    Everything is Khorne. Because I want to be. Because using superficial similarities, I can make anything fit anything. Therefore, Khaine is Khorne. The Emperor is Khorne. Slaanesh is Khorne. Asuryan is also Khorne. Who cares? Books don't matter. Despite canonically not being tied to the Warp in any way...Gork is also Khorne. Because why not? What difference does it make?

    The Phoenix Lords are also Chaos Champions. It doesn't say they aren't. So they definitely are. No, see, who cares if undermines what makes Phoenix Lords special, and kind of a signature piece of Aeldari lore. They can resurrect themselves, and are almost exclusively fighting wars at almost all times. Therefore, Khorne Champions. Like Kharn? You know that guy? He's basically a Phoenix Lord. Oh? What? Armour? No. See, established fluff doesn't matter. I'm only working off superficial coincidences. Actual canon doesn't matter at this point. See, in my head, it's actually more interesting if everything is exactly the same, and that only happens if I ignore huge sections of fluff...Which I'm doing. So, nyer.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    What I got from The Devastation of Baal
    You got something from the Devastation of Baal????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    You got something from the Devastation of Baal????
    Yeah - a headache!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Isn't Nurgle also the God of Life, Determination, and Survival? He loves life and enjoys spreading it across the universe. He just doesn't see why multi-cellular life is such a big deal. He's all about the little guy.



    Yeah, Nurgle is self contradictory that way. All the gods innately oppose not only each other, but core aspects of their own natures.
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    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    You got something from the Devastation of Baal????
    I got that Gabriel Seth is a cool guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    You got something from the Devastation of Baal????
    I didn't consider it a bad book; I've read worse. Some bits were a bit out there, but overall I enjoyed it. VERY anticlimatic ending though, felt rushed and contrived.

    But things like the relationships between BA successors, the Knights of Blood, or Dante trying to commit suicide-by-broodlord and hallucinating about Sanguinius not letting him die (or WASNT he hallucinating? dundundun) are pretty cool in my opinion and some character to the protagonists.

    Of course, best part is Seth calling Guilliman out as an hypocrite and the new Primaris as 'different colored Ultramarines'. The reader knows that Dante has already given up, so in that context his willingness to let these new guys shoulder the burden is apropriately grimdark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Because Khaine and Khorne being the same being, hinges on coincidence and bad storytelling.
    It makes the 'verse smaller, not larger.
    How does it relies on coincidence? A massive Warp entity having multiple facets is hardly news or unhearded of. Basically, Khaine could be seen as a different aspect that Khorne also belongs. One tailored to the ideals, faith and mentality of the Eldars.


    It means that the Aeldari are simply another Faction of Chaos.
    That is *your* inference, and a stupid one as that. Khaine and Khorne being the same, but different facets does not make Khaine a Chaos God. It makes Khorne the Chaos facet of Khaine, and Khaine the Eldarish/Disciplined facet of Khorne.

    The whole point of redeeming themselves for creating Slaanesh falls apart the instant you decide that they are, instead, fighting for Khorne. Trading one Devil, for another, and undermining their entire history since The Fall. It's stupid, and bad, and actually undoes major plot points regarding the War in Heaven, the birth of Slaanesh, and retcons the entire Eldar Pantheon.
    Hardly. Again, you jump to conclusion with your inferences.

    If Khaine is a Chaos God, then how the **** does that work with the rest of the Pantheon?
    First of all, i didnt say that Khaine is a Chaos God, I suggested they are parts of the same Warp entity. Some Chaos Gods share facets with parts of the Eldar Pantheon, others dont.

    There's Isha and Cegorach. Obviously. Now you have to start jamming them into the half-baked theory. Then you also have factor in Kurnos and Vaul. Oh wait...How does Asuryan work? The instant you think a little bit harder than 'both war gods', 'both have similar sounding names', you start unraveling entire sections of established fluff just to make it fit your theory, which isn't supported by anything except coincidence. Khaine doesn't exist in a vacuum.
    But you are insisting that there cannot be a Warp Entity outside of Chaos if Khaine is a facet of Khorne. You are assuming a lot about this point of discussion.

    Asuryan is a damn interesting example, actually. The Warp Entity he is closest of is... The God-Emperor. If the actual Emperor of Mankind is not the actual Warp Entity that makes all the God-Emperor manifestations across the Galaxy (like the Legion of the Damned, or the Sisters of Battle), maybe its the remnants of what used to be Asuryan trying to survive with the alternative facet/identity of the God-Emperor?

    Vaul would share its existence with the Omminisiah the same way.

    In fact, the fact that the only three Eldar Gods who could share a facet of themselves with a Chaos God just *happens* to be the surviving Gods of the Pantheon is certainly interesting in its own right. They cannot never truly die just due to the sheer strenght of their Chaos counterpart.

    Unless you want to go real Grim Derp...
    Where everything is totally pointless, The Emperor is also a Chaos God, full of Spite, and oh wait. The Emperor must also be Khorne, because his portfolio is also killing people. Remember the Cadian Pylons and what happened to Celestine? Definitely a Daemon Prince. While we're at it, Nightbringer is also Khorne. Everything, across all Factions, are all the same aspect of the same entity - Khorne. Does it make any difference? Who cares if the story is ****, now. Because it fits the theory I want. Which is that everything is Khorne.

    Dark Eldar love blood, so Slaanesh is also Khorne.
    Blood Angels and their Successors also are heavily tied to blood in various ways - also Khorne.

    Everything is Khorne. Because I want to be. Because using superficial similarities, I can make anything fit anything. Therefore, Khaine is Khorne. The Emperor is Khorne. Slaanesh is Khorne. Asuryan is also Khorne. Who cares? Books don't matter. Despite canonically not being tied to the Warp in any way...Gork is also Khorne. Because why not? What difference does it make?

    The Phoenix Lords are also Chaos Champions. It doesn't say they aren't. So they definitely are. No, see, who cares if undermines what makes Phoenix Lords special, and kind of a signature piece of Aeldari lore. They can resurrect themselves, and are almost exclusively fighting wars at almost all times. Therefore, Khorne Champions. Like Kharn? You know that guy? He's basically a Phoenix Lord. Oh? What? Armour? No. See, established fluff doesn't matter. I'm only working off superficial coincidences. Actual canon doesn't matter at this point. See, in my head, it's actually more interesting if everything is exactly the same, and that only happens if I ignore huge sections of fluff...Which I'm doing. So, nyer.


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  28. - Top - End - #238
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    I can accept Khaine being a facet of Khorne (even though it feels iffy) or becoming Khorne like in The Human Heresy AU (Highly reccomend reading it) but I have my doubts about the whole Vaul = Omnissiah and Asuryan being the God Emperor. While Vaul and the Omnissiah share a part of their "Portfolio" that doesn't mean they have to be the same or even related to each other. By that reasoning Khorne is an aspect of Gork cause they both enjoy battle. Another important thing. Emperor doesn't like Xenos and almost all of his worshippers also hate Xenos. So it doesn't make sense for him to be merged with an Xenos entity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    How does it relies on coincidence?
    I'm not even going to bother answering that.

    A massive Warp entity having multiple facets is hardly news or unhearded of.
    Except for the fact that the Warp is, and always has been, anathema to the Eldar.

    Basically, Khaine could be seen as a different aspect that Khorne also belongs.
    If you want to say that they share the same aspect - war. That's fine. We're not disagreeing.

    The Morrigan, and Freyja both share similar aspects - fate, fertility, war, protection, death. But I'm not going to ever say that The Morrigan, and Freyja are the same being - because they come from two separate mythologies. I'm sure you can probably try and connect the two. But in all my years of reading Gaelic and Norse mythologies, they don't connect.

    Contrasted to Mars and Ares. That makes sense because one mythology was literally subsumed by the following culture.

    Rather than having two separate cultures, each with their own aspect of war, even with similarities, you think it makes a better story, if the Aeldari are simply another Chaos Faction? You would rather that The Emperor, is also some kind of Warp entity? Because he's also pretty into war, too. Are you going to say that The Emperor, is also an aspect of Khorne? Or are you going to say that Khorne is an aspect of war. Which has many interpretations, and a whole bunch of things can be aspects of war, without being aspects of Khorne - because that's stupid.

    deuterio's premise begins and ends with 'Khaine, sounds like Khorne. Therefore, same.'
    True to form, he's trolled the entire thread, and now we're having this stupid conversation which should never have taken place because someone actually took him seriously.

    It makes Khorne the Chaos facet of Khaine, and Khaine the Eldarish/Disciplined facet of Khorne.
    So, yes. You want to make it like Mars and Ares.
    We disagree.

    Eldar and Chaos do not follow the same God.
    Else, your conclusion ultimately leads to the fact that the Aeldari - including the Drukhari - are a bunch of cucked idiots who have been following a false idol the entire time. Now, while I'd love for that to be the case, and all Eldar can go die in a fire. Nothing I've ever read, even makes hints of the fact that Khaine and Khorne are the same being. I have seen hints, and connections, in canon that link Eldar Gods to the Ork Gods. So, that's why I support that.

    First of all, i didnt say that Khaine is a Chaos God, I suggested they are parts of the same Warp entity.
    Do you mean an emotion? War? Great. Different cultures all arrive to the same conclusions on their own, all the time, even independently. Hooray, we did it!
    Conversation over.

    Oh wait...

    Asuryan is a damn interesting example, actually. The Warp Entity he is closest of is... The God-Emperor.
    Vaul would share its existence with the Omminisiah the same way.
    ...No. Now I'm done.
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  30. - Top - End - #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    That is *your* inference, and a stupid one as that. Khaine and Khorne being the same, but different facets does not make Khaine a Chaos God. It makes Khorne the Chaos facet of Khaine, and Khaine the Eldarish/Disciplined facet of Khorne.



    Hardly. Again, you jump to conclusion with your inferences.



    First of all, i didnt say that Khaine is a Chaos God, I suggested they are parts of the same Warp entity. Some Chaos Gods share facets with parts of the Eldar Pantheon, others dont.



    But you are insisting that there cannot be a Warp Entity outside of Chaos if Khaine is a facet of Khorne. You are assuming a lot about this point of discussion.

    Asuryan is a damn interesting example, actually. The Warp Entity he is closest of is... The God-Emperor. If the actual Emperor of Mankind is not the actual Warp Entity that makes all the God-Emperor manifestations across the Galaxy (like the Legion of the Damned, or the Sisters of Battle), maybe its the remnants of what used to be Asuryan trying to survive with the alternative facet/identity of the God-Emperor?

    Vaul would share its existence with the Omminisiah the same way.

    In fact, the fact that the only three Eldar Gods who could share a facet of themselves with a Chaos God just *happens* to be the surviving Gods of the Pantheon is certainly interesting in its own right. They cannot never truly die just due to the sheer strenght of their Chaos counterpart.
    The problem is, and this is a big one, the gods are real. As in, shards of Khaine inhabit every Craftworld. Khorne's will manifests to people. They are very much different beings. Skarband (a Bloodthirster of Khorne) and the Avatar even dueled to mutual destruction once. Khorne will order Eldar worlds to be despoiled. The Avatar will lead the charge against a manifestation of Khorne's daemons. And someone can't pray to Khaine to get Chaos boons.
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