Roy Greenhilts' Sword/ Weapons of legacy discussion

[Thurulian]

I am intending this thread to be a discussion on how powerful Roys' sword could be and any other theories and/or just interesting ideas.

{Scrubbed}

If anyone finds any more info post it here i want to add as much information as possible to this thread and get some wild theories going.

[unbeliever536]

First: it is generally preferred that you not link to non-OGL content; I suggest you remove the link to the WoL book.

Second, here is what we know about Roy's sword:

• Roy can definitely use two powers at will. The first is the green fire aura, which gives a substantial damage boost and a speed boost; the speed boost is likely either a haste effect or his sword becoming a weapon of speed. The second is his ability to summon the sword to his hand, which could be a representation of the returning weapon property or something like the power of a lesser Crystal of Return from the Magic Item Compendium.
• There is a daily limit on the green fire aura.
• When Roy either of these active powers, his eyes turn green. However, we've seen him get a damage boost on a single attack without the eye color change.
• The first time it activated, Roy's sword healed him and appears to have dispelled an active buff on his opponent. We've not seen either power used since.

[Thurulian]

I apologize for the link I was unaware of the nature of the link and the rules regarding it. I was under the assumption that it was a free to use resource for information about the stats and abilities of weapons of legacy I will be more careful in the future and I wont post links of that nature, thank you for letting me know.

[borg286]

I realize this isn't about his weapon, but rather a theory for explaining the observation using a class ability rather than a 3.5 item.

tl;dr: Roy is a Figher 14+ / Warblade 1 with Lightning Throw maneuver, 2 other Iron heart maneuvers and the Sudden Recovery feat.

It feels as if when Roy activates his superpowers he glows green and it seems he can use Maneuvers from Tome of Battle. In #1122 he seems to have used Lightning Throw which is only available from the Warblade class. From reading the clas and level geekery thread it seems as though he is only level 14. He adds half of his fighter levels (see page 39 of Tome of Battle under Initiator Level) to his Warblade levels. Thus qualifying him for Lightning Throw, a Warblade 8 maneuver. If he only has 1 Warblade level then he only knows 3 maneuvers. Lightning Throw requires 2 other iron heart maneuvers. Often this would be done by taking a 0 prereq maneuver, then taking a 1 prereq maneuver, then finally selecting Lightning Throw. Taking 2 levels of Warblade would give him freedom to pick a maneuver from another school. It also gives him the freedom to trade out the 0 prereq maneuver to one that has 1-2 prereq maneuvers from that discipline.

One thing that supports the use of this maneuver is the fact that his weapon returned to him and that this fact surprised vampire-durkon. The maneuver does explicitly say the weapon returns to you at the end of the round. But the fact that roy used the maneuver again the very next round goes against the way Warblades usually refresh their maneuvers. The Crusader can "redraw" that maneuver having just spent his last maneuver last round, but the Crusader doesn't have access to the Iron Heart discipline, only the Warblade, which fits more with Roy. The workaround I know is the feat Sudden Recovery, which lets him refresh a maneuver as a swift action 1/day. Having a line attack that deals weapon + 12d6 is a great maneuver to double tap.

I also think either Disarming Strike, Exorcism of Steel, or Dazing Strike (but he'd have to be Warblade 2 for that) may be what he was wanting to use in #1067.

Being a Warblade allows him to retrain Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization: greatsword into a different weapon each morning. This may come up in the future. I'm guessing his greatsword gets destroyed again and he retrains on some other weapon that has dramatic effect.

[Morty]

The powers pretty explicitly come from Roy's bond with the sword, so any theory that posits he could do it with any weapon has no legs to stand on.

[Douglas]

I realize this isn't about his weapon, but rather a theory for explaining the observation using a class ability rather than a 3.5 item.

And how does this theory explain #1025, without resorting to "Wrecan was completely wrong and the author is deliberately misleading the audience"?

[Kish]

I think looking for an explanation other than the one presented in the comic is doomed to failure.

(It's not like the comic is exactly pretending warblades don't exist; Roy had a brief discussion with his 4ed counterpart in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails about why he isn't one. So if it meant "Roy now multiclasses to warblade," it would say that rather than talking about his sword doing weird things that point to it being a weapon of legacy.)

[Thurulian]

I think it would be sort of funny if Roys' sword ended up being sentient, i was reading about weapons of legacy and that is one of the abilities they can develop although developing new abilities requires a full day of meditation and rituals.

[Fyraltari]

First: it is generally preferred that you not link to non-OGL content; I suggest you remove the link to the WoL book.

Second, here is what we know about Roy's sword:

• Roy can definitely use two powers at will. The first is the green fire aura, which gives a substantial damage boost and a speed boost; the speed boost is likely either a haste effect or his sword becoming a weapon of speed. The second is his ability to summon the sword to his hand, which could be a representation of the returning weapon property or something like the power of a lesser Crystal of Return from the Magic Item Compendium.
• There is a daily limit on the green fire aura.
• When Roy either of these active powers, his eyes turn green. However, we've seen him get a damage boost on a single attack without the eye color change.
• The first time it activated, Roy's sword healed him and appears to have dispelled an active buff on his opponent. We've not seen either power used since.

I think the sword wasn't a WoL before his fight with Lurkon.
The greenfire effect was initially only due to the starmetal (either happening randomly or by reacting to undead and fiends).

However, now that it is a WoL whenever Roy activates it, all its properties are enhanced, including the greenfire (which is always triggered). Wecan tell when Roys activates it because his eyes turn green. Eye changing color when using magic seems to happen to casters a lot in this setting, so I'm guessing green is Roy's magic color (since Wrecan likened the WoL thing to what wizards do and it's also the color of Eugene and Julia).

Finally, I'd say the activation is not an at will effect, Roy says ha has to be in a specific state of mind. His description makes me think of this, which probably affects how powerful the healing/increased damage/ennemy debuff is in a "the angrier you are the more power you get" kind of way.
And thus Roy "Fighters are more than dumb brutes" Greenhilt gets Hulk-powers. Ha!

[Sprütche]

Mr. Burlew invented a prestige class, Bearer of the Ancestral Weapon.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...n-GiantITP-com
I never played the game so I don't know how much of it is applicable to Roy and his sword. There seem to be differences but also some similarities.

[tyckspoon]

Thus qualifying him for Lightning Throw, a Warblade 8 maneuver. If he only has 1 Warblade level then he only knows 3 maneuvers. Lightning Throw requires 2 other iron heart maneuvers. Often this would be done by taking a 0 prereq maneuver, then taking a 1 prereq maneuver, then finally selecting Lightning Throw. Taking 2 levels of Warblade would give him freedom to pick a maneuver from another school. It also gives him the freedom to trade out the 0 prereq maneuver to one that has 1-2 prereq maneuvers from that discipline.

Common misreading, but Tome of Battle prereq levels work like spell levels; to access a maneuver that is 'Warblade 8' you would have to be at least Initiator Level 15. Even if Roy had taken the hypothetical Warblade level he would only be IL 8 and qualified for up to 4th level maneuvers.

[Kish]

Mr. Burlew invented a prestige class, Bearer of the Ancestral Weapon.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...n-GiantITP-com
I never played the game so I don't know how much of it is applicable to Roy and his sword. There seem to be differences but also some similarities.

Roy's not a spellcaster, nor does he have two forms which he changes between like Billy Batson and Captain Marvel. It's a weapon of legacy, as it's already been called in the comic: as straightforward a part of D&D as Belkar being a ranger, with no more need to look for alternate explanations.

[Emanick]

Roy's not a spellcaster, nor does he have two forms which he changes between like Billy Batson and Captain Marvel. It's a weapon of legacy, as it's already been called in the comic: as straightforward a part of D&D as Belkar being a ranger, with no more need to look for alternate explanations.

I have to admit, though, I do enjoy the idea of Roy slipping into a phone booth to change into a different outfit and then taking on the form of Captain Warblade (or whatever).

[Fyraltari]

I have to admit, though, I do enjoy the idea of Roy slipping into a phone booth to change into a different outfit and then taking on the form of Captain Warblade (or whatever).

That's Rob Redblade's shtick! Based solely on the number of superheros who have the same initial twice.

[Thurulian]

i think its a really smart move by the giant choosing something to add that is both versatile in the story as a tool for the character and follow the 3.5 rules but at the same time be a useful plot device for Roy to overcome obstacles with pure willpower.

[unbeliever536]

I think the sword wasn't a WoL before his fight with Lurkon.
The greenfire effect was initially only due to the starmetal (either happening randomly or by reacting to undead and fiends).

However, now that it is a WoL whenever Roy activates it, all its properties are enhanced, including the greenfire (which is always triggered). Wecan tell when Roys activates it because his eyes turn green. Eye changing color when using magic seems to happen to casters a lot in this setting, so I'm guessing green is Roy's magic color (since Wrecan likened the WoL thing to what wizards do and it's also the color of Eugene and Julia).

Finally, I'd say the activation is not an at will effect, Roy says ha has to be in a specific state of mind. His description makes me think of this, which probably affects how powerful the healing/increased damage/ennemy debuff is in a "the angrier you are the more power you get" kind of way.
And thus Roy "Fighters are more than dumb brutes" Greenhilt gets Hulk-powers. Ha!

If you look carefully, you'll notice that the regular-eyes link goes to comic #1105, almost 100 strips after Roy first began to use his new Weapon of Legacy powers. As to whether or not Roy can choose when to activate the powers of the sword, he quite plainly can (in the case of his aura and the summon-to-hand ability), and there is no reason to suspect that there is anything random or mood dependent at all about the benefits he gains.

[skaddix]

If you look carefully, you'll notice that the regular-eyes link goes to comic #1105, almost 100 strips after Roy first began to use his new Weapon of Legacy powers. As to whether or not Roy can choose when to activate the powers of the sword, he quite plainly can (in the case of his aura and the summon-to-hand ability), and there is no reason to suspect that there is anything random or mood dependent at all about the benefits he gains.

He has been practicing so its not totally caused by emotions but we did see him go further beyond when Not Durkon brought him his baby Brother. He went from losing that fight to absolutely stomping Not Durkon. So he can get some benefits without emotion but he seems he learns new abilities mostly through being emotional the first time.

[Fyraltari]

If you look carefully, you'll notice that the regular-eyes link goes to comic #1105, almost 100 strips after Roy first began to use his new Weapon of Legacy powers. As to whether or not Roy can choose when to activate the powers of the sword, he quite plainly can (in the case of his aura and the summon-to-hand ability), and there is no reason to suspect that there is anything random or mood dependent at all about the benefits he gains.

I think the green eyes indicate Roy "activating" his sword (ie getting the full thing) while the green fire without green eyes is the same as before he turned it into a WoL. He himself says it's based on his emotions on panel 8 (however Wrecan's book states that he should eventually be able to activate it by intentionally finding this stae of mind) and the weaponsmith said the greenfire effect wouldn't be controlled by Roy .

[Sloanzilla]

I followed the link to Amazon's Weapons of Legacy page. I did not realize that 3.5 books were now selling for that much.

~ Runs off to pay for daughter's college education.