Erfworld 76, page 70

[sihnfahl]

Jillian hopes Wanda can see this...why? <snip> 2) She wants Wanda to know that the 'deal' is off.

I'd go with 2. In the Thinkagram to Ansom, Jillian points out that she likes being a barbarian because she's free to make friends or enemies or lovers of whoever she pleases.

Wanda's manipulations essentially forced a choice on Jillian. That, to an independent person like Jillian, would be unforgivable. Once she got free of the spell, she realized what was going on and who did it to her...

[Fineous Orlon]

Jillian hopes Wanda can see this...why?

1) She wants Wanda to know that she is still under her control and has a plan, or

2) She wants Wanda to know that the 'deal' is off.

If 1), then Parson is a fly in the ointment, with his decision to swarm Jillian, unless Jillian wanted Wanda to see it because Jillian now has a death wish as a result of Wanda's meddling.

She may also have broken the spell, but is trying to ascertain if Wanda is keeping her under surveillance, and if there is some indication of that, then Ansom's side may come to know more of Tool's communication and contwoll capabilities.

[JazzManJim]

It's interesting to me that Parson gave the croak order without asking Stanley or Wanda first.

[spite48]

PS. To those that thought Jillian wasn't attacking the warlords, you can feel really stupid now.

No, I feel WRONG. I don't feel stupid.
I was wrong. But I still believe the artists left that intentionally ambiguous.

[PyritePyro]

It's interesting to me that Parson gave the croak order without asking Stanley or Wanda first.

Well, he is the Chief Warlord. Even if it is chiefly because they don't have anyone else. It's not like he should be indecisive or anything.

[JazzManJim]

Well, he is the Chief Warlord. Even if it is chiefly because they don't have anyone else. It's not like he should be indecisive or anything.

Except that to this point, he's been under Wanda and Stanley in the pecking order. Both have publicly dressed him down without compunction. Expected behavior based on that would be for him to pause for at least a second to get their input.

[plainsfox]

Does it need to be confirmed? If I were the overlord, I wouldn't countermand a "Kill them all" order right now. I'd be fuming and nodding my head.....or I'd stop my Warlord so I could issue the order myself.

There's another option for Jillian here. She dies and Wanda uncroaks her. Jillian becomes one of Wanda's dolls anyways.

[Zeku]

I might have figured out something awesome about the plot, but I can't say anything. Sorry to be such an obnoxious tease, but they might change the story if I were right.

[teratorn]

I think it's a good time for a dramatic death, with Jillian sacrificing herself to save Ansom. It can be followed by Ansom cradling her dead body and swearing vengeance against Stanley, etc..

Nope, next turn uncroaked Jillian leads the dwagons against the column. Wanda will get the arkenpliers but will leave Ansom alive so he can suffer and see Jill taking out his army.

[ShiningTed]

Another day, another little bit of the game mechanics gets revealed... great update.

[belboz]

It's interesting to me that Parson gave the croak order without asking Stanley or Wanda first.

Even if Parson were thinking politically, rather than militarily (never his strong suit), checking with Wanda right now would probably be a bad idea. Shares of Wanda Preferred are at record lows and dropping fast.

[Highwarlord]

I'm a proponent of the "Jillian has been dispelled" theory.
Maybe the S/M thing was just a phase that she outgrew

[Tirian]

Jillian hopes Wanda can see this...why?

1) She wants Wanda to know that she is still under her control and has a plan, or

2) She wants Wanda to know that the 'deal' is off.

Or a little of both and a lot of neither. She wants Wanda to realize that her love doesn't require sorcery but does require trust, and that she wouldn't want her death to be just a meaningless die roll in a wargame.

[Girl Wonder]

Jillian hopes Wanda can see this...why?

1) She wants Wanda to know that she is still under her control and has a plan, or

2) She wants Wanda to know that the 'deal' is off.

If it is #1, I'll eat my earrings. I am absotively, posilutely certain it is #2, and I, for one, could not be happier. My only hope is that Wanda is at the receiving end of a first-class Tool tirade after this. She has certainly earned it.

[Jade_Tarem]

I think she broke the spell. A line like "either way, one of your dolls is about to get broken" meshes perfectly with Sizemore's "...lead recklessly... these are things she is inclined to do anyway..." and not so well with Wanda's "She will be unable to act."

I really think the spell turned on itself and snapped. And if there's one thing Baldur's Gate taught me, it's that units always go hostile when they break free of a suggestion spell.

Plus, look at her face in the first panel. That doesn't look like the face of compromise, submission, or anything other than "PO'ed Barbarian."

[SPoD]

Except that to this point, he's been under Wanda and Stanley in the pecking order. Both have publicly dressed him down without compunction. Expected behavior based on that would be for him to pause for at least a second to get their input.

Except Wanda just booped up big time by putting all of their faith in her spell, and Stanley booped up by believing her. This is Parson's opportunity to move up that pecking order, by pulling victory from the jaws of Wanda's defeat. I expect this will end with Parson dressing down Wanda, and Stanley approving.

Also, if Jillian dies here, Wanda can uncroak her and FORCE her to obey. This might be exactly the sort of revenge that will appeal to Wanda.

[teratorn]

I think she broke the spell. A line like "either way, one of your dolls is about to get broken" meshes perfectly with Sizemore's "...lead recklessly... these are things she is inclined to do anyway..." and not so well with Wanda's "She will be unable to act."

I'm not sure, I took it more as saying that if she manages to hit the dwagon the leroy-doll dies, if she fails Jillian-doll dies. She's one of the dolls.

[Jari Kafghan]

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, I didn't see it but i might have missed some posts. I think its an interesting tactic that Parson is combining the stacks. For several reasons.

First off it gives the full stack bonus to everyone fighting,

Second it allows him to focus all the firepower on the gwyphon/Jillian stack and ignore the Mercs. This is speculation of course, but I see the archons as their own stack.

3. If it is true that you have to get through all the lower levels to get to a warlord in a stack, and there is precidence for this in other games, then it puts that many more dwagons between them and the warlords, and that many more oppertunities for them to strike back.

I think Parson is going to make the most of that 39%.

[tomaO2]

No, I feel WRONG. I don't feel stupid.
I was wrong. But I still believe the artists left that intentionally ambiguous.

That's really sad, the authors have better things to do then to try and suprise us deliberately by not adding the proper detail into their pages. You wanted to believe that this wouldn't happen but... I'm sorry, it was stupid and your still not thinking clearly. It's obvious that the artist just didn't bother to put in the extra details when the green dwagon got killed and it's that simple. Just as I said last update. I really wanted to be wrong but it's obvious now that I wasn't.

I also hate they raised my hopes that Jillian would not attack them after all in page 74 when I saw the looks the archeons had. Hate how the art gives off the wrong message so much. I'm starting to think Parson never had a chance to win this war. I can't even phantom what the story might be like if Ansom wins this but if a solution comes up that has had absolutely no foreshadowing whatsoever I'll still be upset. Even though, technically, the odds are not overwhelming for Parson, Jillian's side has all the momentum.

The goodbye did release a plot point that that had to be dealt with before Jillian died. So perhaps I should not say that there is no possibility that she can't but she is the most developed and interesting character on Ansom's side. Plus the whole royal aspect has barely been touched on. She can also order a retreat if she needs to. This could be a possibility though I'm not sure how Parson could start wining here. Meh, there is just way to much potential to kill her off now.

[Krelon]

what are the numbers in this fight?

starting:
Tool: 19 dwagons 3 uncroaked WLs
Ansom: 5 peeps, 3 archons, Jill

what I saw:
(Ansom first strike) Each archon takes out 1 dwag. A peep swallows 1 dwag. Jill booms 1 dwag and 1 WL.
(pre-combat counter?) Red dwagon roasts 1 peep.

currently:
Tool: 14 dwagons 2 uncroaked WLs
Ansom: 4 peeps, 3 archons, Jill

prediction:

Spoiler

Show

(Tool round) -Jillian
(Ansom round) -4 dwagons
(Tool round) -4 peeps
(Ansom round) archons disengage (carrying badly wounded Jillian to safety)
result: half of the dwagons lost, nearly no losses to the coalition but Parson can still carry out his siege trashing.
Wanda booped big time, Parson the hero

do the numbers match?

[Zeku]

Jillian's a confusing character to me, because I honestly have no idea what kind of experiences or thought process leads up to one wanting to submit to someone, much less someone that isn't a unmistakable ally. It's not that I judge her on any level, I just don't get it.

At base, she seems to be an amoral person, defining herself by the exercise of her own completely arbitrary will. She seems especially childlike somehow, perhaps because as a princess she needed noone, and had no strong authority figures to define her personality with. Maybe I answered my own question?

Wanda I can understand completely, if I assume that she is a pure manipulator, complete with the female spin. She will use whatever weak points she identifies in others to establish absolute control over everything around her. Minor idiosyncrasies may cause her to fall short of absolute world-wide control, but that's the ostensible goal in the back of her mind.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Heh...I think that Parson has just plain had enough of people not telling him what he needs to know and expecting him to trust that their plans will work. Jillian may in fact still be under control in some fashion, or has not fully thrown it off...

My thoughts...she won't abandon Ansom...but she can't bring herself to strike a final blow to Wanda's forces...so she does the only thing that she knows to do...charge in head first and leave herself wide open...that way, her fate is no longer in her hands...Wanda will chose whether she lives or dies. Too bad for her...it doesn't look like Wanda will be making that call...

Even if Wanda tries to call off the attack, I don't think that Parson or Tool will allow it. She is going down in a blaze of glory...

Without her leadership, the battle will result in losses for the Archons who would probably rather leave then get thrashed...with the warlord that they were to escort out of comission (dead or just presumed) they might say contract over and bail, if only from the fight. It is possible that a half dead Jillian will be left in the water and wash up on the shore.

Mainly, I think the only way she can stay true to both is just to take herself out of the fight the only way she knows how...to 'die' in glorious combat.

[israfel420]

Why is everyone acting like Parson is the hero here? I mean if he hadn't tried to trap Ansom with that fort gambit he could have simply stacked all the dragons over the one lake(A and B) and been immune to this pitiful band of flyers.

Then the following turn Ansom's flying units would likely have to spread thin while Parson would have had aroun 45 completely healed Dwagons and 3 warlords whom he could have micromanaged to kill whatever warlords/flying units encountered then move on to hose another good chunk of the siege and then retreated to GK as since the column is now closer.

This would have gaurenteed the severe crippling of Ansom's seige weapons and awarded at least a temporary stalemate as Team Stanley hides behind the walls or at least forced the fights completely into the tunnels(Crap golemns and goblins oh my!!!)

So I feel Parson has majorly booped up by taking a risky maneuvor that was unlikely to pay off considering Ansom's move rate and strength. And it's not like Parson was unaware of the tenuous control Wanda's spell afforded before he did all this. He was there when Wanda said "suggestions, perceptions, emotions...not a direct order to betray Ansom" on page 43 as it is a continuation of page 41's discussion. Going by those descriptives, Parson should have realized that it was not a "domination" level magic spell merely a "suggestion" level magic spell, or at best "charm person".

To bet the farm on a first level spell is not the hallmark of a great dungeon master and I would think that Parson is as much if not more to blame for their current prediciment since he could have played it safe and come out much better.

[Robak]

Did anyone mention that Jillian placed another Gwiffon underneath the dwagin she jumped onto? Shes not trying to commit suicide. Shes got an escape plan.

[FrostXian]

It's interesting to me that Parson gave the croak order without asking Stanley or Wanda first.

She has slain Leeroy, Parson's favorite warlord.
..atleast he had chicken.

[Scientivore]

Wow! That is some awesome art, and a very dramatic twist with Parson's order to croak Jillian. His cool control in a crisis is impressive.

[Zelig the Liar]

That's really sad, the authors have better things to do then to try and suprise us deliberately by not adding the proper detail into their pages. You wanted to believe that this wouldn't happen but... I'm sorry, it was stupid and your still not thinking clearly. It's obvious that the artist just didn't bother to put in the extra details when the green dwagon got killed and it's that simple. Just as I said last update. I really wanted to be wrong but it's obvious now that I wasn't.

I also hate they raised my hopes that Jillian would not attack them after all in page 74 when I saw the looks the archeons had. Hate how the art gives off the wrong message so much. <snip>

I agree with you on the point that the author & artist aren't attempting to deliberately mislead us with the art, but I'm unsure about what "extra details" you think the artist overlooked on the green dragon kill. If it's the lack of a lower jaw, there are at least 2 other green dragons in the shot behind Jillian that could have been the one in the killshot, both with intact heads. I also don't see anything misleading about the expressions on the archon's faces on that page. They were pissed. The previous page set that up, when they objected to Jaclyn discussing the spell on Jillian. "They're not paying for magic security; that's separate." I'm fairly certain that the communication with Ansom was also a freebie, and surely the other two archons are upset about that as well.

I'm sure that Jillian's her own master now. She may have enjoyed playing the sub to Wanda as a lover, but was most likely unaware of the extra magical control that Wanda exercised over her. Merely learning about it may have been what led to it breaking. A barbarian is defined by action! Attempting to render her unable to act in this situation was the death of Wanda's spell, Sizemore predicted this exactly.

[ThorFluff]

Well, now that they know Jillian's been used for sneaky things, she's outlived her usefulness. I'm sure Wanda won't mind using croakamancy to make Jillian into a useful tool for Godwin Knob, if the opportunity arises. If it's possible to animate forces that used to be opposed.

That made me laugh like hell, The battle will be solved by comparing the opponent to hitler! :D

[SteveMB]

If it is #1, I'll eat my earrings. I am absotively, posilutely certain it is #2, and I, for one, could not be happier. My only hope is that Wanda is at the receiving end of a first-class Tool tirade after this. She has certainly earned it.

Actually, it might be even more entertaining if Parson starts the tirade (if he gets a moment free from the task of trying to salvage this mess), with the Tool fully backing him up.

I'm sure that Jillian's her own master now. She may have enjoyed playing the sub to Wanda as a lover, but was most likely unaware of the extra magical control that Wanda exercised over her. Merely learning about it may have been what led to it breaking. A barbarian is defined by action! Attempting to render her unable to act in this situation was the death of Wanda's spell, Sizemore predicted this exactly.

It's possible that there never was any "extra magical control" until now (the "very hard way"). Previous cycles of the capture-interrogation-release-lather-rinse-repeat cycle may have been slowly laying the groundwork (and obtaining fresh intel). I've speculated before that Jillian's "let's both of us get out of here" indicated to Wanda that it was time to proceed to "the very hard way" -- and, given that it seems to have worked until Jillian ran into the wounded dwagons, and might still have worked if not for Jaclyn, I can't really gainsay her judgment if so.

However, I think you have a point that learning about the spell and being freed from its influence has had its own influence on Jillian. (Specifically, it has left her royally, pardon the pun, PO'd.) This would tend to work against the remaining (i.e. mundane psychological) elements of Wanda's influence.

[Gez]

Did anyone mention that Jillian placed another Gwiffon underneath the dwagin she jumped onto? Shes not trying to commit suicide. Shes got an escape plan.

So it should, tactically, be the first target for Parson's swarm. Cut her escape route and let her plummet on the dead dwagon to a watery grave (gwave?), forcing one of the Archons to intercept her fall (meaning that said Archon won't instakill another Dwagon during this battleround).