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Thread: Erfworld 76, page 70
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2007-09-07, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-09-07, 06:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Another Erfword Tool
Official Metalhead of the I Hate Club. Good riddance.
W.W.S.H.D.
(What Would Sledge Hammer Do?)
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2007-09-07, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
That is what I was thinking. Parson knows how to fight this type of battle, commanding troops, not having to worry about his own personal shortcomings. If and when Parson finishes the fight, and withdraws the B-dwagons, and any surviving A-dwagons, he can try something else. But from this point forward, I don't think he or anyone else will be depending on Wanda's control over Jillian.
Parson has Sizemore, Misty and Bogroll, and now probably the Tool. Wanda only has her rather impressive force of personality. Looks like the pecking order is about to change.Thanks to Ceika (X2), Yeril, Holammer and Dr. Bath for the Avatars!
New Avatar, new form of self-destruction! Ceika is Beyond Awesome!
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2007-09-07, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
I know someone has probably mentioned it but in panel three that peep is eating a dwagons head. That is just freaking awesome.
And to chime in on the Jillian/Wanda topic. I an not sure Jillian has totaly broken the spell, notice how she says 'Whatever happens one of your dolls is about to get broken." I think this attack is her method of choosing by not choosing. If she wins the fight she gets Ansom, if she loses then Wanda can uncroak her. A kind of skewed win-win depending on your point of view.
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2007-09-07, 07:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Huh. An unexpected update. How nice! I thought it would be two more weeks before saw anything.
Phat-Singh is still around, so calling it game over is silly. (Seriously, though, this is the last move for Ansom's side and Parson has plenty of resources.)
As a main character Jillian, can't die this early in the comic.
And even if she lives, having them go for a kill is easier than going for a capture. They might merely disable her, but at least they don't have unnecessary losses trying to capture.
Wanda versus the Archons would be hella cool, yes?
So the dozens of towers filled with marbits that he set aflame were just ... what, exactly?
Parson is trying to survive, which should hopefully make some sense. The trap still exists, but until this battle is complete, it is too early to tell what will happen.
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2007-09-07, 07:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
(2/3 -- Breaking up replies to be a bit more manageable)
Game or not, he's living in it, and he'd like to live.
In hard practical terms, he doesn't really have the luxury of going for the capture; at the very least, that means one dwagon loses its breath weapon or claws to keep hold of the prisoner during the battle.
Jillian's survival is not required or prohibited. As heir, there is usefulness in her staying in the story. As a tension point, I can also see her passing.
That could either be ugly or interesting.
Whew. Good thing he hasn't already sworn vengeance against him. Oh, wait...
Technically, that would be two for the team.
Yeah. Of course, he's the only one capable of coherent thought and action at the moment. But I do like it.Last edited by rosebud; 2007-09-07 at 07:23 AM.
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2007-09-07, 07:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
(3/3 -- Breaking up replies to be a bit more manageable)
Well, I have to say you've been both defiant and consistent. (I like characters on both sides, but I'd like to see Parson survive. But I do admire your point of view.)
Only if Parson is a complete idiot. You don't need internal dissension -- you need the team working together. The best thing Parson can do after completing this battle is ensure this does not happen.
I'm not sure what story you're reading, but it's been lopsided from the beginning of the story. And nothing is certain right now, such just enjoy it.
The goodbye did release a plot point that that had to be dealt with before Jillian died.
She takes risks and might die, but dying is not on her agenda. Please don't misunderstand what she's doing.
Because he's able to act.
I mean if he hadn't tried to trap Ansom with that fort gambit he could have simply stacked all the dragons over the one lake(A and B) and been immune to this pitiful band of flyers.
So I feel Parson has majorly booped up by taking a risky maneuvor that was unlikely to pay off considering Ansom's move rate and strength.
I do agree that he took dangerous risks that were probably not warranted, but it is still possible to make this scenario work in his favor. And, yes, he could be defeated, but that's what made the setup challenging and interesting.
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2007-09-07, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Impressive my arse! Parson is, regrettably, not what he was advertised to be. He loses his cool in the last panel and reacts emotionally, making the worst possible decision for irrational reasons. At this point, it is more than ever critical to capture, rather than croak, Jillian. Her worth to Ansom has just skyrocketed; as a hostage she would be a very valuable bargaining piece, and a crimp in Ansom's plans. This is doubly important now that the dwagons and the warlords are going to heck in a bucket. On the other hand, if she's killed, Ansom will be after Parson's arse personally--no more maneuvering, coalition politics, etc. Neither can live while the other survives.
But Parson reacts emotionally like a newbie gamer--he has cracked under pressure, and is about to discard a key asset in a fit of childish pique. This is unforgivable in a strategist. Contrast this with Ansom, who has been shown to think coolly and creatively even with his boops in a vice. I find this hard to admit, being a fan of Parson from the start, but Ansom is the better warlord of the two.
Hardly the hero, but otherwise a nifty resolution. I like it.
_____________
P.S.: For another very cogent Parson-debunking analysis, see this post. Get your act together now, Mr. Holy-boop-unbeatable-extradimensional-super-duper-warlord!
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2007-09-07, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Ooh, Parson's pissed. Seems like he can be scary when he's pissed. But I hope his manuever doesn't get all his warlords killed. That would make his run as commander of The Tool's Army pretty short.
Telling someone they have some kind of mental problem because they disagree with you is not a good argument.
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2007-09-07, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
hmm.. capture might be better in the long term, but:
I think he played with his mathamancy tool in the meantime (talking to friends, e.t.c.) and is maximizing the odds through micromanagement. However... the battle itself is real time! Therefore he must act fast.
Let's say the default is that dwagons attack randomly and the standard warlord tactic is set to capture (no death attacks on the warlord). You get 39%.
If he forgoes the chance to capture then that might increase his chances to remove Jillian in one round. As a result the peeps and archons lose their +9 and suddenly he gets a much higher %-age.
Of course this is pure speculation, so take it with grain of salt.Orc Girl Avatar by Yeril !
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2007-09-07, 07:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
I reckon Parson is activating a backup plan. He was hoping Jillian wouldn't fight for Ansom but had a plan if she did - exploitation of an obscure battle rule. I reckon there's a rule for a stack mobbing a warlord. Two units for every enemy unit must engage with the remainder end running the target. However the size of the dragons permits them just one to one engagement. Merging the two other stacks and attacking as one stack means plenty of dwagons remaining for the end run. This is enough to take out Jillian but with heavy losses. The Archons inflict more losses then fly back to base to demand more payment, which isn't available.
This leaves half the dwagons gone but Ansom's dwagon hunter gone as well. This gives Parson almost uncontested air superiority. Stacks of powerful, mobile creatures and unmatched battlefield information means he can pick his battles on his terms. This is what he needs to pull off the successful defence of Gobwin Knob.Matthew Greet
My purpose in life is to play games.
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2007-09-07, 08:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Indeed. Also note the fourth gwiffon being attacked by a fire blast from the red dwagon.
And to chime in on the Jillian/Wanda topic. I an not sure Jillian has totaly broken the spell, notice how she says 'Whatever happens one of your dolls is about to get broken." I think this attack is her method of choosing by not choosing. If she wins the fight she gets Ansom, if she loses then Wanda can uncroak her. A kind of skewed win-win depending on your point of view.Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-07 at 09:51 AM.
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2007-09-07, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Yes, capturing her is not worth the loss of several dragons, and Parson is already quickly running out of them. If killing Jillian saves even a few of those, he still can do several things with them. If he loses too many trying to capture her... well, the game's over no matter if they capture her or not.
He already lost 5 dragons in exchange for one peep.
And, by the way - the peep killing dragon is absurd. Attacking the only point where the dragon has a perfect opportunity to empty several buckets of chlorine acid... in your face?
It should have ended like that peep wasted by red's flame breath just above in the same frame
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2007-09-07, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
How so? (The fact that she's just confessed her love to Ansom is irrelevant. There has been absolutely no indication that the trimancer can detect, much less eavesdrop on, Thinakagrams, so it must be presumed that Team Stanley doesn't know that.)
This is doubly important now that the dwagons and the warlords are going to heck in a bucket. On the other hand, if she's killed, Ansom will be after Parson's arse personally
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2007-09-07, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
1. Team Stanley already knows that Ansom loves Jillian, which is what matters here. They also know she just pulled his boops out of the fire, or is valiantly trying to, at any rate. It doesn't take much
piebrains to figure out that she'll be very valuable as a hostage, and that croaking her will up the ante with Ansom.
2. Ansom will inevitably find out sooner or later, which also should be obvious.
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2007-09-07, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
That much was already known to them when they had her as a prisoner earlier. They didn't seem to think the "hostage" gambit was even worth attempting.
While I don't deny that Parson is reacting in part out of irritation at his plan going bubar, I think he's simply decided that he doesn't have the luxury of pulling any punches in this battle.
Edit: The "In Memoriam" avatar -- heh!Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-07 at 09:50 AM.
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2007-09-07, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Will the Leroy Jenkins references ever end?!?!?!?!
....not if I can help it"All sorts of nastiness happens in a dungeon. That's why they are not called "malls"." -Wehrkind
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2007-09-07, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Actually, Ansom is suspecting that she's a traitor, and he's not the only one. He's already suspicious of all the times she was captured. Hence, if Jillian is captured AGAIN, he might not be willing to go after her, especially considering what happened the last time he tried.
How?
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2007-09-07, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Oh. My. God.
I know its free, but if you're only going to post one or two comics a week, can we pick up the story pace a little? This is slower than an episode of Dragonball-Z on Ketamine.
Liked that last panel though. Parson's getting ruthless :)
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2007-09-07, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
No, not ruthless. Practical.
He can't rely on Jillian - she's already taken out one warlord and a dwagon, and will presumably keep going until she takes them all out.
He can't use Wanda's spell - Jillian's shown Wanda can't control her anymore.
He can't capture Jillian - he needs every dwagon he can muster to take out the remaining siege if his warlords survive this battle. Capturing Jillian again would risk more dwagons AND ensure a dwagon isn't in the siege battles because it'd have to return to GK with Jillian.
Plus, it wouldn't give him any advantage. Jillian hasn't been out in the field long enough to have any new info on Ansom's plans, she can't be used as a bargaining chip, and she's shown herself able to resist Wanda's spells.
Jillian is, to Parson, fully on the enemy side now and to be treated as such.May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2007-09-07, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Well, that cleared a lot of things up for me.
Vengeful barbarian Jillian is much more fun than conflicted schlub Jillian.
Wanda just learned that you can't make something harder without also making it more brittle. Jaclyn broke the enchantment on Jillian exactly the way Sizemore said it could be broken: By forcing her to realize that there was no rationalization that could accommodate her conflicted loyalties. Now she wants Wanda to watch what she's doing to her "toys" as payback for what Wanda did to her. If Wanda's next word is "Inconceivable!" I will fall out of my chair laughing.
Parson's response is sound: He has better-than-even odds of losing his entire elite tactical force (the B dwagons aren't so mobile). The biggest threat, the warlord and commander of the enemy air force with a superabundance of courage, a 9 ranking and a grudge, has to be eliminated. (The Archons are ferocious, but they're also contractors: if Jillian dies they might return to Ansom.) By ordering a croak rather than a capture he's allowing the dwagons to use bweath weapons rather than getting close enough for her to croak them. No, it's not an ideal long term strategy, but right now he's more concerned about whether there will be a long term. His side has already lost a major asset: Their mole in the enemy ranks.
GK has nothing to blame but the fog of war they created among their own senior command. Their has to be one commander, one strategy, and open and frank lines of communication or you get situations like this.
Speaking of that, here's the next question: Does Wanda love Jillian? She has a distinctly jilted look in that panel. If so, the situation is reversed and GK is the side with the powerful but conflicted warlord. My guess is that Stanley won't be quite as patient with the situation as Ansom was.Last edited by Wender; 2007-09-07 at 09:52 AM. Reason: <em> -> [i]
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2007-09-07, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Thank you, authors.
TBH, I just about gave up on this comic on the last strip. Why? Because it seemed to show Team Ansom simply walking over Team Tool with nothing they could do about it but simply take it. Turn-based warfare strikes again.
But now that we've seen that Parson can control the tactical battle ... NOW it's a fight. NOW it's not just sitting passively waiting to be raped by three archons.
NOW there's some dramatic tension, and you've perked my interest anew.
About the only complaint I have is the pacing. But then, the art is beautiful. It must take longer to make than the Giant's stick figures.
My guess is that in just a few turns Parson's side will have only two warlords -- Parson himself, and uncroaked Jillian. That, at any rate, would be the revenge I would expect Wanda to extract if Jillian dies and Team Tool recovers the body.
I would also hope Parson convinces the Tool to buy the Archons. They're too useful in a fight to leave to the other side.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2007-09-07 at 09:35 AM.
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2007-09-07, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
I really don't see the whole, "Jillian can't die this early on thing."
To make a comparison, its near the end of the first part(book).
So far the story has centered mostly around her.
She has been the hero but circumstances have suddenly and drastically changed.
She seems a lot like Ned Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire.
Good storytelling doesn't give a pass on anyone to stay alive, all characters are mortal. Makes the decisions more dramatic. And killing off a character so central to the plot makes you wonder for characters that you are SURE will make it through. What if they don't? What if I am reading this wrong.
That's good storytelling, keeps you on your toes.
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2007-09-07, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-09-07, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Wanda love Jillian? I find it difficult to believe that someone like Wanda could truly love someone. She likes being manipulative and having control. She's just realized that someone she enjoyed controlling is out to get her now. That and a potential escape route if Stanley lost is gone.
In a few turns it could be all over anyway. Ansom's siege will be at GK in a turn or two. It wouldn't take that long, given the size of Ansom's army, to crack GK's defenses and break through.
Now, if you're referring to battle ROUNDS, then, no. There are still 2 uncroaked warlords back at GK; Parson only sent 3 out for his assault.Last edited by sihnfahl; 2007-09-07 at 10:09 AM.
May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2007-09-07, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
The thing I think is most interesting about this page is Jillian's statement that "One of your dolls is about to get broken." Jillian is obviously one of them, but who's the other?
All signs point to Stanley, to my mind. We've seen Wanda manipulating him throughout (and using some of the same techniques *koff* on both of them), and there's no one else we've seen who fits the bill; most of them are unimportant, and Parson's come onto the scene too late for it to be him. Unless it's a foreshadowing of the appearance of another major player (unlikely at this point), I think this is the strongest evidence yet that Wanda has been playing both ends against the middle in this conflict.
I guess the question now is--is this Wanda's "Game Over"?Last edited by Neuromancer; 2007-09-07 at 10:16 AM.
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2007-09-07, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Leeroy (who did, in fact, get broken).
All signs point to Stanley, to my mind. We've seen Wanda manipulating him throughout (and using some of the same techniques *koff* on both of them), and there's no one else we've seen who fits the bill; most of them are unimportant, and Parson's come onto the scene too late for it to be him. Unless it's a foreshadowing, I think this is the strongest evidence yet that Wanda has been playing both ends against the middle in this conflict.
I guess the question now is--is this Wanda's "Game Over"?Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-07 at 10:25 AM.
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2007-09-07, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
This is awesome. :)
I can't help but feel that my emotional investment into the story preventing me from making accurate objective speculation isn't such a bad thing. I'm certainly having a good time of it in any case.
As for Parson's order to croak, I'm not so sure that's sound. I think there's a strong possibility that it's far easier to croak Jillian's mount than it is to croak her, which I suppose kind of explains how a warlord as strong as her gets captured so often.
Then again, if Parson recognises that this entire mess occurred basically because of Jillian being allowed to continue to return to battle, and likely will continue to occur unless she's croaked, that it is sound to remove her from the battlefield.
Love the RIP avatar for Leeroy, but find it funny that as an uncroaked, he certainly didn't the first time.might just play the wall with this mean look on my grill
act like i'm the hater that hates you from hateville
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2007-09-07, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 76, page 70
Jillian's one doll, the other was Leeroy Jenkins.
One thing that strikes me about that statement is that Jillian's resolved her conflict by settling on a deathwish, and hopes her own death hurts Wanda. Note, by the way, that she says, "Whatever happens... one of your dolls is about to get broken." That doesn't mean she's looking to be uncroaked.
Parson is doubtlessly angry, but I don't think he's being irrational. Jillian's the warlord in the stack, the most important unit and now vulnerable to attack. The entire point of this and the last page is that Jillian is NOT an asset to Stanley's side. She's been a sort of double-agent, but has now firmly decided to side against them, making her doubly a threat. Finally, Parson's only hope to avoid being disbanded is to visibly do everything he can to recover from Wanda's mistake. If he's politically savvy, he may have to disassociate himself from Wanda, and in a hurry.