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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    People have to stop tacking their pre-conceived notions about this story on this comic. If you already have specific expectations about what SHOULD happen you won't be happy when it doesn't happen.
    Last edited by Eten; 2007-09-07 at 10:43 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    As far as Parson's tactics, he's trying to make the most of a bad situation. He knows odds are he'll lose this battle, so he's trying to inflict the most damage on the enemy.
    - and -
    if he takes out the enemy warlord, they won't be able to choose which units to attack (this is speculation, but not as far-fetched as some of the things I've seen on these boards... (flame)Maybe she's attacking the dwagons in the forest... and just talking about taking out the warlord for no reason...(/flame)). 39% isn't good odds, but it isn't too much to hope for that they'll get lucky, either. And if they do, he wants to make DAMN sure he still has at least 1 warlord to use to take out more of the siege.
    - and -
    he's pissed at Wanda and Jillian for screwing up his plans, Wanda for being wrong while assuring him she was right, and Jillian for actually doing it. So swarming Jillian makes sense from an emotional viewpoint, too. When Wanda had some kind of control over her, she was useful. Now that she's proved too unpredictable, she's a liability.

    Incidentally, just because a dwagon has a peep (sorry, gwiffon) around its head doesn't mean it's down for the count either. It could be, or it could use whatever its breath weapon is and blast that gwiffon to smithereens.

    Anyway, my prediction for this battle:
    Dwagons swarm Jillian. Archons are there as bodyguards/escorts for her... therefore they either jump in and take the hits somehow, croaking or maiming one or more of them, and carrying Jillian out... or if they can't take the hits, the dwagons croak Jillian, and the warlords permit the archons to withdraw, which they do since their mission is over.
    It's possible that the archons stick around and duke it out to the end with the dwagons, or that Ansom heroically shows up to save the day (no idea what'd happen then), or that Wanda manages to countermand Parson's order and we get more lesbian dominatrix drama... but I don't think any of these are likely.

    In any case, Parson has to play for taking out more siege, which mean the walls of gobwin knob will hold against Ansom's army, and we get to see what Sizemore has planned for the tunnels. Jillian is far from death-exempt... she just declared her love for Ansom and commited herself to a foolhardy and heroic gesture. But also, Parson isn't guaranteed to win in the end. He could end up working for someone else in the next chapter of Erfworld.

    Oh, and since I'm posting, WRT Wanda's control over Jillian, it's pretty obviously that Jillian enjoys... submission, to Wanda in particular. Probably magically augmented (she may not have even been so inclined before being captured the first time), but that's the core of it. Jillian is aware of it on some level, and it's not foolproof (obviously). What Wanda failed to account for was that when faced with several bad choices, Jillian isn't the type to do nothing... she's the type to choose one anyway.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolishOwl View Post
    If he's politically savvy, he may have to disassociate himself from Wanda, and in a hurry.
    Call me politically foolish, but after this fight is over, *I* would stick up for Wanda.

    Reason:

    First of all, He can't disassociate from Wanda because she summoned him in a very public way.

    Wanda is a vital asset. She's not going anywhere. Stanley may be ticked off at her, but he can't disband her.

    There's no way he can dissassociate ,and no way it will enhance his own standing. Such an attempt would, however, make Wanda his mortal enemy.

    Parson isn't so rich in friends that he can afford to make any enemies he doesn't have to. The only reason he survived this turn is because Wanda took extraordinary measures to save his life and to tutor him in dealing with Lord Stanley. Don't stick up for Wanda now, don't expect her to stick up for Parson next time ... and there WILL be a next time, make no mistake.

    Besides which, Wanda is the caster who summoned him. She may hold a vital clue to getting back into his own world or surviving, should Lord Stanley lose this battle. She is HIS out, in more ways than one.

    So Parson's best hope is to first salvage this engagement. Then, with his cred up and Wanda's down, extend her an olive branch. This will upset the power relationship and make her his vassal, rather than vice versa. He can then team with her to manage Stanley. Cutting her out to team with Stanley ... well, that's a losing proposition from so many angles I can't even begin to count them.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Eten View Post
    People have to stop tacking their pre-conceived notions about this story on this comic. If you already have specific expectations about what SHOULD happen you won't be happy when it doesn't happen.
    Who says that I want my expectations as a reader to actually to happen? It's almost impossible to read or view a story and not form expectations even if only unconsciously. In fact, you can't be surprised if you don't have a preexisting expectation. And you can also be surprised if your expectation happens in an unexpected way, for ex when Ansom was first in the pincers many people thought he was completely booped. A minority thought he would react somehow to make it a better fight. But both groups were surprised with "The Hunt" option.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolishOwl View Post
    Jillian's one doll, the other was Leeroy Jenkins.

    One thing that strikes me about that statement is that Jillian's resolved her conflict by settling on a deathwish, and hopes her own death hurts Wanda. Note, by the way, that she says, "Whatever happens... one of your dolls is about to get broken." That doesn't mean she's looking to be uncroaked.
    Exactly. You know, Jillian carries a lot of irony for a BFS-wielding-BDSM-sub-barbarian-princess.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by EntilZha View Post
    Wanda's the only one I'd see objecting to it. As far as Stanley's concerned, she works with Ansom, obviously making her the enemy, and eminently croakable.

    Likely true.

    But I did say "interesting", not "confusing" or "inexplicable". That panel was a very subtle way of letting us know that Parson isn't likely to be taking guff off of anyone, including Stanley. That's a significant change in how he has been acting.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by SPoD View Post
    I expect this will end with Parson dressing down Wanda, and Stanley approving.

    Also, if Jillian dies here, Wanda can uncroak her and FORCE her to obey. This might be exactly the sort of revenge that will appeal to Wanda.
    That's exactly what Parson shouldn't do. If he's thinking deeply into the game (and we have every reason to believe that he is), he should know that publicly humiliating Wanda would be incredibly stupid. It would make him an enemy.

    He's much better off waiting for the inevitable Stanley verbal trashing, then sticking his nose in to get a little bloodied to take some of the heat from Wanda. Then when he's in private, he can give her a more-controlled dressing-down and she'll be more amenable to listen to him because she knows he took some of the blast that should have been all hers.

    Doing that gains Parson a strong ally.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Looking at Parson and Wanda on these latest pages, I despair of any deep game on either of their parts; in a page or two they'll be pointing fingers like Archons. We know Parson lays all the blame on Wanda for overestimating her control of Jillian, and he isn't holding back; but many of us also think Parson should have been better prepared for her failure (as in, at all), and though it might be unfair of Wanda to make that argument herself, she's not disposed to care about that, and the charge will still stick. Therefore, Stanley will make a rare approach to wisdom and justice when he
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    sends them both out to the lines "to level up".

    It is, justly, a worse punishment for Wanda than for Parson, both relatively (Stanley could, or thinks he could, end Parson's very existence, while ordering her into battle is probably the worst he can do to Wanda) and absolutely (though Wanda no doubt knows the rules, she works from headquarters and may actually never have had to face combat; while combat systems of all kinds are Parson's life--now more literally than ever). Naturally, the "group dynamic" between the disgraced pair will attain new heights of dysfunctionality; enough sparks must fly to power Wanda's (exasperated? grudging? desperate?) exposition of the tactical combat rules, which I find I have somehow been made to care about.

    We can expect Stanley to call back Parson as soon as he finds himself saying, "Can't anyone here play this game?" This will probably happen a few turns later than it ought to. Wanda, however, will go on to meet her Fate
    --but others have speculated on this already, probably less wildly than I'm doing.
    Last edited by Rollin; 2007-09-07 at 12:03 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Leeroy (who did, in fact, get broken).


    Huh? Even setting aside the much more obvious interpretation that she's referring to her uncroaked-warlord target, there's no reason to believe that Jillian knows anything about Wanda's manipulation of the Tool (it might have come up in their post-session "girl talk," but that's pure speculation).
    Oh...that doll...

    Yeah, that fits much better, doesn't it?

    It's certainly looking bad for her. At the very least, she's just fallen flat on her face in front of everybody. If she had been cultivating Jillian as a backup option (eventual replacement for Stanley as manipulated nominal superior, an ally to cover her flight from the final defeat, Coalition-installed ruler of Gobwin Knob willing to let her off the hook), those plans have gone into Sizemore's cesspit.
    .

    No kiddin'. Whoever wins here, it's not Wanda. Or Leeroy.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post
    No kiddin'. Whoever wins here, it's not Wanda. Or Leeroy.
    Yeah just like Jillian was booped before, or was it Parson, no it was Ansom.

    We're all still flat-footed here as readers and surprises are to come.

    All we can say from a story point of view is that it seems likely that the major characters, Parson, Stanley, Wanda, Ansom and Jillian have some sort of story-immunity. How that will work out is yet to be seen.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Freederick View Post
    At this point, it is more than ever critical to capture, rather than croak, Jillian.
    Had Jillian not been released, (1) Ansom would have not hired the Archons, (2) the wounded dwagon stack would have been safe, and (3) Ansom would be more booped.

    Remember the Evil Overlord. Stupid Overlords let the hero escape so as to ruin their plans. The Evil Overlord takes care of the pesky hero.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Wanda + Underlighting = Scary.

    I just felt that needed to be said.

    As for upcoming events, I don't think that the Coalition Hunters can kill the dwagons rapidly enough to stop them from getting shots off on Jillian.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    Wanda + Underlighting = Scary.
    And this is different from any other kind of lighting how?

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    I hadn't considered it before, but I am positively giddy at the idea of an uncroaked Jillian leading the Tools troops from the front :)
    'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Actually, it might be even more entertaining if Parson starts the tirade (if he gets a moment free from the task of trying to salvage this mess), with the Tool fully backing him up.
    Oh, even better! I like the way you think!

    As much as I dislike her character personally, I neither want nor expect to see her depart the strip. She's the most villainous character by far (except for Bat #23 :P) and the strip needs her. But I really really reaaaaally want to see her get her comeuppance to some degree, whether from Stanley or Parson (or both!) and not bully her way out of her mistake by force of personality (actually, that might work on Stanley, but at this point I doubt it would work on Parson.) But let the puppet mistress dangle on the string for a while, don't let her off the hook, I say.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    I just realized something about Jillian's current situation:

    It's really, really bad.

    If the "X" that is the eye of the red dwagon is saying what I think it is, she's now sitting on the back of a beast that's about to plummet into freefall. She does have a peep underneath it, but unless she can jump well clear of the falling dwagon, she's going to be taking a really bad ride.

    And she's about to be dogpiled by a ginormo-stack of dwagons with two warlords attending and instant communications with Parson.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Search wikipedia for "Boom headshot". Is Pure Pwnage the original reference?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzManJim View Post
    I just realized something about Jillian's current situation:

    It's really, really bad.

    If the "X" that is the eye of the red dwagon is saying what I think it is, she's now sitting on the back of a beast that's about to plummet into freefall. She does have a peep underneath it, but unless she can jump well clear of the falling dwagon, she's going to be taking a really bad ride.

    And she's about to be dogpiled by a ginormo-stack of dwagons with two warlords attending and instant communications with Parson.
    I'm not sure if I expect the following to happen, but it certainly is a possibility...

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    Parson has just given the order to croak Jillian. Wanda (exhibiting some human qualities for once rather than just being a soulless manipulator) shouts 'No!' and jumps in to countermand it because maybe -she- feels something for Jillian, even as Jillian has rejected her. A big argument ensues beside the game table with the now-discredited Wanda rationalizing why Jillian should NOT be croaked (how ironic!) vs. Parson and Stanley's insistance that she MUST be. She'll lose the argument (her stock IS rather low right now) but have disrupted Parson's instant control of the battle long enough to allow Jillian to win it (the odds are in her favor, after all). Wanda's now in it even deeper, but Jillian survives Parson's tactical wizardry because of Wanda's interference, and there's a -lot- of new dynamics kicking around inside of GK because of it.
    Last edited by Girl Wonder; 2007-09-07 at 02:26 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
    But let the puppet mistress dangle on the string for a while, don't let her off the hook, I say.
    Most of Stanley's army is made of uncroaked. After the dwagons, Wanda is Stanley's best asset. Even the warlords they have depend on her. She'll get off the hook easily, and she'll get the warlords they need to finish the siege: Jillian and Vinny (Vinny had a bit of foreshadowing during his last talk). Somehow I expect Ansom to survive.

    I get the feeling this book is near the end.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    This really seems like the end of Jillian coming soon. I mean, her big conflict was Ansom vs. Wanda. There are different ways to take that struggle, but that was the primary struggle she had. Now the conflict has been resolved, she had her own "cut-scene" with Ansom, she got a nice saying "Whatever happens... one of your dolls is about to get broken." and now she is in a bad position. ( I thought it was obvious one of your dolls referenced Leroy and Jillian herself, but I have certainly been wrong in the past, and likely will continue to be wrong in the future).

    It really seems like all the signs are pointing to the end of Jillian. We've been surprised before, so I won't count out the unexpected, but this situation does feel like an ending.

    Though I wouldn't exactly rule out the "uncroaked" Jillian either. Though it feels like the odds of that are fairly small for a bunch of reasons.

    Question?

    Does anyone think Wanda is actually Hurt by Jillian's betrayal even more then she is pissed about it?

    ----Also----
    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
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    Parson has just given the order to croak Jillian. Wanda (exhibiting some human qualities for once rather than just being a soulless manipulator) shouts 'No!' and jumps in to countermand it because maybe -she- feels something for Jillian, even as Jillian has rejected her. A big argument ensues beside the game table with the now-discredited Wanda rationalizing why Jillian should NOT be croaked (how ironic!) vs. Parson and Stanley's insistance that she MUST be. She'll lose the argument (her stock IS rather low right now) but have disrupted Parson's instant control of the battle long enough to allow Jillian to win it (the odds are in her favor, after all). Wanda's now in it even deeper, but Jillian survives Parson's tactical wizardry because of Wanda's interference, and there's a -lot- of new dynamics kicking around inside of GK because of it.
    I just want to say, this was my first thought upon reading this comic.
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    I felt the Wanda shows humanity by trying to save Jillian bit then rationalizes it as an attempt to regain control... But I think if that happens it feels a little shallow. I'm not sure I can put my finger on what I think is weak about that sequence of events, but I do for some reason.
    Last edited by Nightgaunt; 2007-09-07 at 02:31 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    "Boom, Headshot!"

    Instant win.
    Thanks so much to Doihaveaname? for the awesome Iron Man Doihavatar! Here's another one.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    I'm delighted to see Jillian burning her bridges with the same thoroughness she brings to everything else she does. And the other big reason I liked today's page is that this turn of events is wonderful character development for Wanda too. How will she respond? Look at that wonderful expression she's wearing; superb work, Rob and Jamie.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzManJim View Post
    Likely true.

    But I did say "interesting", not "confusing" or "inexplicable". That panel was a very subtle way of letting us know that Parson isn't likely to be taking guff off of anyone, including Stanley. That's a significant change in how he has been acting.
    Word.

    Parson's been alternating between butting heads and walking on eggshells with Stanley. At this point I think your assessment is valid, but we'll know for sure in the coming strips.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
    Oh, even better! I like the way you think!

    As much as I dislike her character personally, I neither want nor expect to see her depart the strip. She's the most villainous character by far (except for Bat #23 :P) and the strip needs her. But I really really reaaaaally want to see her get her comeuppance to some degree, whether from Stanley or Parson (or both!) and not bully her way out of her mistake by force of personality (actually, that might work on Stanley, but at this point I doubt it would work on Parson.) But let the puppet mistress dangle on the string for a while, don't let her off the hook, I say.
    While some of the other posters have made some good points about why it might be prudent for Parson to do a bit of bridge-building by giving Wanda what support he can get away with, I don't know that it would be in character for him to be that politically astute. OTOH, his general sympathy to somebody in a bad situation right in front of him (as demonstrated by the Misty business) might come into play. On the gripping hand, right now he needs to focus on the battle in the hope of salvaging something from this fiasco.

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
    I'm not sure if I expect the following to happen, but it certainly is a possibility...

    Spoiler
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    Parson has just given the order to croak Jillian. Wanda (exhibiting some human qualities for once rather than just being a soulless manipulator) shouts 'No!' and jumps in to countermand it because maybe -she- feels something for Jillian, even as Jillian has rejected her. A big argument ensues beside the game table with the now-discredited Wanda rationalizing why Jillian should NOT be croaked (how ironic!) vs. Parson and Stanley's insistance that she MUST be. She'll lose the argument (her stock IS rather low right now) but have disrupted Parson's instant control of the battle long enough to allow Jillian to win it (the odds are in her favor, after all). Wanda's now in it even deeper, but Jillian survives Parson's tactical wizardry because of Wanda's interference, and there's a -lot- of new dynamics kicking around inside of GK because of it.
    Spoiler
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    Actually, that would keep the ambiguity between "actually has feelings for Jillian" (if only though habituation from the "good cop"/"caretaker" facet of her mind-gaming) and "soulless manipulator" (as I noted in a previous message, she might have long-range plans that require Jillian alive and under her control -- and while the former is the case, there's always a possibility of regaining the latter somehow).
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-07 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Added reply without double-post

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    While some of the other posters have made some good points about why it might be prudent for Parson to do a bit of bridge-building by giving Wanda what support he can get away with, I don't know that it would be in character for him to be that politically astute. OTOH, his general sympathy to somebody in a bad situation right in front of him (as demonstrated by the Misty business) might come into play. On the gripping hand, right now he needs to focus on the battle in the hope of salvaging something from this fiasco.
    Besides he's the Perfect Warlord. He's got the battle lust now. Leroy at least had chicken but he's not going to let the Boom! Headshot! go unanswered.
    Last edited by ag30476; 2007-09-07 at 03:32 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Okay. Check me on this.

    Assume the battle happens in rounds.

    24 dragons vs. Jillian, 3 archons, the peeps.

    Round 1: Team Ansom has initiative.
    3 archons each destroy 1 dragon. Peeps take out 1 dragon, dragon takes out 1 peep, Jillian kills 1 warlord.

    So that's ... 19 dragons still alive with low hp. They attack in stacks of 8.

    2 stacks - 16 dragons vs. Jillian.

    That should pretty well kill her in this round, shouldn't it?

    Once that's done, there is no warlord left in the stack to direct the fighting of Team Ansom, who must all fight to the death.

    So that leaves some very strong units on team A against weak on hit point but powerful on the attack team Tool. Team Tool has leadership, while Team Ansom loses leadership and Jillian's bonus.

    My prediction: Jillian killed, pyrrhic victory for Team Tool. They succeed, thanks to Hamster's leadership, in defeating the archons at high cost.

    Possible wild card: Ansom riding to Jillian's rescue.

    Agree/disagree?

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Scientivore View Post
    Wow! That is some awesome art, and a very dramatic twist with Parson's order to croak Jillian. His cool control in a crisis is impressive.
    He is completely unflappable. When Wanda tried to explain why the Tool was about to disband him for interfering with the mancers he was more interested in what she was saying about Ansom's lack of intel. The "Tool problem" was an instantly forgotten irrelevancy, not even worth a dismissive grunt. Threats simply provoke no emotional reaction from Parson.
    Illimir orc monk avatar by yours, truly. He seems to be looking for his cigarettes.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    It's also because his way of looking at the world is in terms of how it presents game possibilities. His whole world centers around tactical ownage. If her news of his being disbanded didn't come with a bit of key tactical information, I'm not sure how unflappable he'd be, but then again, he adapted to everything in Erfworld really quickly.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Some of this was already mentioned, but Jillian apears to be in a lot of trouble here. She's astride a croaked dwagon and a max stack is about to close on her in order to kill her. Even assuming that Jillian's side gets free attacks against the incoming dwagons they cannot stop them all, and it only took one dwagon to capture Jillian last time. In all likelihood they will not get a free attack against them (can't see why they would) and so Jillian, who is now out in the open, will be attacked by all of them. The only thing that could save her at this point is for her to fall in the lake, thus removing her from the battle.

    Can Ansom join the battle in progress? He is close enough, but no game I know of would permit it, except possibly Civilization, in which there is no separate tactical mode.
    Illimir orc monk avatar by yours, truly. He seems to be looking for his cigarettes.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Possible wild card: Ansom riding to Jillian's rescue.

    Agree/disagree?
    Not sure he can do that unless they break engagement. I think only after the action is solved in this hex someone else can enter.
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