Erfworld 76, page 70

[Lombard]

omg, what is this- the 8th page about Jillian and the dragons? Enough of this already, resolve it and move the story along.

[SquireJames]

All my story-telling senses tell me that Jillian and perhaps Wanda are in the "mature" phase of their character development. They may croak soon. Parson, on the other hand, is a mewling little Titan baby. Perhaps literally! That being said, all my story-telling senses tell me that George R.R. Martin ought to keep a protagonist alive, but people seem to like his writing anyway!

[ag30476]

All my story-telling senses tell me that Jillian and perhaps Wanda are in the "mature" phase of their character development. They may croak soon. Parson, on the other hand, is a mewling little Titan baby. Perhaps literally! That being said, all my story-telling senses tell me that George R.R. Martin ought to keep a protagonist alive, but people seem to like his writing anyway!

Character development is overblown. The characters are set...well we don't know how Jillian just changed all of a sudden...but what we got here is a situation comedy/tragedy.

- Jillian has betrayed Wanda or must betray Ansom or both. There's a piper to pay.

- Wanda has just lost her doll and her boss is not happy and she's underlit DUN DUN DUN

- The Perfect Warlord has to prove his worth...in shmuckers

- The BBEG is just waiting to explode but I think he's in a loop right now Wanda's fault! No, Parson's fault! No, Wanda's fault! No, Parson's fault!

- And what of Prince Ansom?

[ag30476]

omg, what is this- the 8th page about Jillian and the dragons? Enough of this already, resolve it and move the story along.

Some of us...like the tension.

[Lamech]

I think Ansom could come riding to the rescue. On page 63 the two warlords and Jillian were all moving at the same time. That would seem to mean that units can move in real time assuming that they are working for the same side. Of course, Ansom could be locked out of the hex unable to use his move to enter it.
If Ansom does come I think Parson's best bet would be to croak the remaining four peeps possibly trapping Ansom in the hex. It’s possible that the peeps will sacrifice themselves to protect Jillian and Ansom will trap himself in the hex. Then team Stanley can get two powerful warlords, and also stand a good chance of getting the Arkenpliers. While its unlikely if Jillian didn't break the spell, I think that Wanda suggested she call Ansom and tell him what she was about to do.

Parson should try to focus on forcing a retreat. It’s the Archon's job to save Jillian if they see that Jillian is about to die one of them may have to pull Jillian out of the hex. Then the other to Archons would likely leave with their fighting capability reduced. (By as much as half if the gwiffons need to strikes to kill a dwagon with out Jillian.) If Parson can force a retreat that would allow Parson to finish of the siege.

Finally with Jillian on a dead dwagon they should both enter free fall. Depending on how Jillian landed she could bounce up making it impossible to jump and aim for the gwiffion. Then if the falling dwagon causes enough air turbulence the gwiffon might be unable to stop Jillian’s fall. If that happens Jillian would go straight in to the lake, and the Archons would have to rescue her, making things worse for them.

One more minor detail, if one zooms in on Jillian’s right eye in the first panel the color doesn't look very blue. Of course, there are only six pixels of gray and the black outline could have messed things up, or the blue from page 68 could have been from the thinkogram.

[ag30476]

I think Ansom could come riding to the rescue.

He has move enough to come but can he join a battle in progress...that may or may not be possible...probly not as some have said already.

[Gez]

I don't see Wanda much interested in turning Jillian into an uncroaked. Sure, it would be a wicked vengeance; but uncroaked have no will and no personality. It wouldn't be Jilian anyway, just her moving corpse.

And this turn is going to last longer than Grace's birthday party in El Goonish Shive...

[carl corey]

- The Perfect Warlord has to prove his worth...in shmuckers

Frankly, I think Parson at least half expected this outcome. Remember that he didn't blindly believe Wanda's explanations about the spell Jillian was under anyway. And now after '...at least he has chicken' he goes with 'Okay merge...etc'. He's got at least an instant plan if it wasn't already prepared beforehand. I'm not sure if his plan goes beyond 'croak the warlord' but as others have already pointed out even that might be enough.

I think this development will also lead to Wanda getting a backseat in the ensuing rounds and Parson having a freer hand. He might have felt compassion for Misty, but Wanda's no helpless girl this time. Her own overconfidence and arrogance got everyone in trouble, including Parson, and I don't see him forgiving her just to play nice.

[daggaz]

Interesting question -- is Parson still treating it like a game, or is he making a cold pragmatic decision that in war, you kill the enemy when you get the chance and don't have a reason not to?

This was in response to the question about how Parson could be so cold, ordering the croaking, and that he must still believe that it is just in his head.
..

Parson is the perfect soldier, at least mentally. In the military, they go out of their way to dehumanize the entire situation of active conflict. They play 'war-games,' they demonize the enemy and strip them of their humanity, they rename everything so its 'casualties' and 'combatants' etc.. instead of 'hurt' or 'people' etc.. they train foot soldiers to think automatically and without remorse. Parson is prime general material. Everything is a game to him (quite literally), and his main goal in life isn't just to win, it is to absorb EVERYTHING about the game, to master the rules so well that he can break them and become a gaming god. Such a temperament ensures that he will do whatever it takes to win the 'game.'

[ag30476]

Frankly, I think Parson at least half expected this outcome.

He's not so half-expecting...er confident...here or a couple pages later.

And now after '...at least he has chicken' he goes with 'Okay merge...etc'. He's got at least an instant plan if it wasn't already prepared beforehand.

Or like he's the Perfect Warlord but it's a nitpick...either way.

I think this development will also lead to Wanda getting a backseat in the ensuing rounds and Parson having a freer hand. He might have felt compassion for Misty, but Wanda's no helpless girl this time. Her own overconfidence and arrogance got everyone in trouble, including Parson, and I don't see him forgiving her just to play nice.

But I like Wanda. I want more of Wanda and her dolls and play sessions

[Eten]

Artwork for this is amazing.

Makes Erfworld stand out way above others. It is really special. I really enjoy being able to just take one of these comics apart to look at the artwork.

[teratorn]

I don't see Wanda much interested in turning Jillian into an uncroaked. Sure, it would be a wicked vengeance; but uncroaked have no will and no personality. It wouldn't be Jilian anyway, just her moving corpse..

Well, she could do it out of spite. Jillian chose Ansom even under a spell! that must hurt.

What would be better than having uncroaked Jill (his love) and Vinny (his best friend) leading the army facing him?

[Zelig the Liar]

And this is different from any other kind of lighting how?

Because with that lighting, she becomes... The Leprechaun! Aye, she's The Leprechaun! Oooh, scary! Ahahahaha!

Okay, sorry, he's gone, nothing here but THE Leprechaun!!! OoooH WAtch out for The Leprechaun!!

Sorry, lack of sleep at work there, and a little bit of The Leprechaun!! Hahahaha!-

[Arkenputtyknife]

Some of us...like the tension.

Darn straight. Enough of the “This comic is so slow” boop.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Hi Everybody -

I've been lurking on the boards for some time and would like to make a few observations about the way things are going so far, and where they are gonna go.

Two things are clear to me. At some point Parson is going to be a player, not a warlord. He's going to be making policy decisions, not remain the Tool's tool. How's he gonna get there? My pet theory is that Stanley will get the shiv from Wanda, who will take over his position and try to recruit Parson - who agrees so long as the whole "you can terminate me with a word" option is no longer available.

But who knows? The authors have fooled me several times already, which is really quite awesome. Still, I feel strongly about this, in large part because...

The second thing I know is that at some point Parson will present his opponents with a no-win scenario. How do I know that? Because that's what he had planned for his buds back on Earth.

What do y'all think of that?

[Chewy]

am i the only who thinks the tactical battles are RTS?

[Aquillion]

One thing here: A lot of people are wondering whether or not Stanley would disband Wanda. (Well, not really, we know plotwise it's unlikely, but you get the idea.)

That's assuming he can disband her. She's listed as a member of a separate tribe, remember... and Jillian indicated that she has the ability, if she so chooses, to defect from Stanley's side at any time. I suspect that hero units, or at least casters, are different from generic troops or summoned folk like Parson; Stanley might be able to fire her, but I doubt he can just summarily end her existence. (Otherwise, it would have made no sense for Jillian to suggest running away.)

[ReccaSquirrel]

omg, what is this- the 8th page about Jillian and the dragons? Enough of this already, resolve it and move the story along.

Its called character development.

[rosebud]

I'm not sure if I expect the following to happen, but it certainly is a possibility... (speculation about interactions amongst Parson,
Wanda, and Stanley).

Oh, stop yer dreaming. Be happy enough that Jillian is free.

I am curious what level of introspection Wanda will or will not show as well as what her relation is to Jillian. But I really don't look towards petty bickering. Just because Parson says croak doesn't mean that she won't merely be disabled from combat during the turn. There's already enough dynamics.

This really seems like the end of Jillian coming soon. I mean, her big conflict was Ansom vs. Wanda. There are different ways to take that struggle, but that was the primary struggle she had.

That's funny. When Jillian says, "I might not have wanted the Kingdom he cost me, but it was mine.", I got the ever so slight sense perhaps a few things were going on in the story line.

omg, what is this- the 8th page about Jillian and the dragons? Enough of this already

You need to get out more. Everything to this point has come to this moment. If you have the entire set of pages it would take you like, what, a few minutes to read and enjoy the eight pages?

All my story-telling senses tell me that Jillian and perhaps Wanda are in the "mature" phase of their character development. They may croak soon. Parson, on the other hand, is a mewling little Titan baby.

We're just at the beginning of the story. Jillian may or may not survive (both possibilities have potential), but we've only scratched the surface of the interactions.

As for Parson, I don't understand your comment. Indecision does not work well in combat. He's at a steep disadvantage and having "dead" as a viable option makes things much easier.

I think Ansom could come riding to the rescue.

I like the rest of your analysis, but Ansom present would prevent an Archon retreat (he is their employer afterall) unless Ansom was also disabled. If Ansom was there, Vinnie would also be there, and the combined forces they represent should tilt towards an alliance victory. (Even if Ansom were permitted to move, it's possible it could take two rounds to do so. By that point, Jillian might be showing just how far she can float and the Archons could be in rescue and retreat mode by that point.)

Finally with Jillian on a dead dwagon

I didn't get the sense that the Unrealistically Oversized Weaponry was going to stop at the top of the neck.

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Though it would be funny if the falling dwagon head took out the supporting gwiffon.

I think this development will also lead to Wanda getting a backseat in the ensuing rounds

Wanda. Backseat. Hee hee. Are we talking about the same Wanda? Hee hee. I see her accepting the backseat only if she's the one driving.

[John Campbell]

It's also because his way of looking at the world is in terms of how it presents game possibilities. His whole world centers around tactical ownage. If her news of his being disbanded didn't come with a bit of key tactical information, I'm not sure how unflappable he'd be, but then again, he adapted to everything in Erfworld really quickly.

I don't think it's that. I think it's that he just doesn't take Stanley's ability to disband him seriously as a threat. Note that he doesn't even get particularly intimidated when Stanley gets all up in his face with a fire-snorting red dwagon. He's still, on a fundamental level, thinking this is all a dream, and if he gets disbanded, or killed, he'll just wake up in his bed at home, running late for work. (He might even be right.) That'd be a losing ending, so he'll do his best to avoid it, but it's an intellectual challenge, not something to cause visceral fear.

[teratorn]

The second thing I know is that at some point Parson will present his opponents with a no-win scenario. How do I know that? Because that's what he had planned for his buds back on Earth.

What do y'all think of that?

First he needs to get his win scenario in this battle. But it's hard to tell. We were all discussing game rules and such at the beggining of this battle, but things are more focused now in the characters themselves. Erfworld is mostly a story, but I forgot that when Parson started moving the dwagons.

What I find amusing is that I'm all for team evil, not because of Parson but mostly because of Wanda. Jillian's death worries me less than a possible defeat for Parson. I wonder if we had met first the other team I'd be on Jillian's side. Probably not, I wonder what makes Wanda so likable.

[Smushel's Dart]

I doubt that Parson will turn on Wanda. He's too practical for that. In spite of her flubbing this spell, she is a fantastic magician and a good theoretician. She has already stepped up to prevent Parson's being disbanded; he will do the same for her.

[ag30476]

Probably not, I wonder what makes Wanda so likable.

Not the BDSM girl on girl action. No, it's not that.

[ag30476]

I doubt that Parson will turn on Wanda. He's too practical for that.

No, no, he would never put the blame on her.

[SteveMB]

I'm not sure if I expect the following to happen, but it certainly is a possibility...

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Parson has just given the order to croak Jillian. Wanda (exhibiting some human qualities for once rather than just being a soulless manipulator) shouts 'No!' and jumps in to countermand it because maybe -she- feels something for Jillian, even as Jillian has rejected her. A big argument ensues beside the game table with the now-discredited Wanda rationalizing why Jillian should NOT be croaked (how ironic!) vs. Parson and Stanley's insistance that she MUST be. She'll lose the argument (her stock IS rather low right now) but have disrupted Parson's instant control of the battle long enough to allow Jillian to win it (the odds are in her favor, after all). Wanda's now in it even deeper, but Jillian survives Parson's tactical wizardry because of Wanda's interference, and there's a -lot- of new dynamics kicking around inside of GK because of it.

I'm posting another reply to this, because a scenario occurred to me -- one I don't consider to be particularly likely, but isn't outside the realm of possibility, and is certainly amusing to consider:

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Stanley objects to Parson's order, not because he is opposed to the idea but because he's miffed that Parson showed a bit too much independence for his liking. Once again, he starts yelling out "garbage" in the middle of a critical operation, and potentially boops it up....

I wonder what makes Wanda so likable.

She does have a certain charisma, competence, and toughness in the face of adversity. Come to think of it, I'm reminded of the classic English Lit description of the sympathetic aspects of Milton's Satan.

[teratorn]

Not the BDSM girl on girl action. No, it's not that.

I'm not really a fan of that stuff (it's ok storywise but just that).

GK are the underdogs and depend fully on Parson (they could never survive without him). She's evil but somehow vulnerable. It's also probably the fact she has to take orders from Stanley.

I'm very curious to see how she'll react to this. She never laughs, does she cry?

[ag30476]

I'm not really a fan of that stuff (it's ok storywise but just that).

You don't have to be. Neither am I. But it draws us to her. Otherwise she is like Wednesday...boring.

She's evil but somehow vulnerable. It's also probably the fact she has to take orders from Stanley.

Exactly. She's the best -mancer we've seen. Why is she still working under Stanley, someone she detests, in a loosing circumstance? She seems powerful yet not in control of her situation. She seems to manipulate Jillian with detachment but she is barely able to contain her enthuthiasm for her "hobby" and she gets emotional when her "control" is questioned.

I'm very curious to see how she'll react to this. She never laughs, does she cry?

It would seem out of character for someone who seems so in control of herself.

[Girl Wonder]

First he needs to get his win scenario in this battle. But it's hard to tell. We were all discussing game rules and such at the beggining of this battle, but things are more focused now in the characters themselves. Erfworld is mostly a story, but I forgot that when Parson started moving the dwagons.

What I find amusing is that I'm all for team evil, not because of Parson but mostly because of Wanda. Jillian's death worries me less than a possible defeat for Parson. I wonder if we had met first the other team I'd be on Jillian's side. Probably not, I wonder what makes Wanda so likable.

Well, some of us (admittedly a seeming minority) don't like her at all. I think she's more a 'popular' character rather than a 'likable' one. What we have seen of her personality has been hostile and arrogant at worst, working through cold and manipulative to cryptic and long-suffering at best. (Save for a single scene with Jillian, where she did display a sort of patronizing affection, though this may have been part of her act to keep Jillian under her thumb.)

I think what makes Wanda popular to most is not what is known about her, but what is unknown. How did she lose her tribe? Why does she follow Stanley? What are her ultimate goals and ambitions? Is there any kind of more human side behind the 'Dragon Lady' exterior? All these mysteries give people a lot to ponder, and allow them to 'fill in the blanks' right now with whatever they'd like Wanda to be, so she gets a lot of discussion time and is also quite popular.

And that's as close to Wanda apologism as you'll ever see me come. Personally, I jump for joy every time that manipulative, arrogant so-and-so suffers a setback (and get a second smile when I come to the boards and see the true Wanda apologists all flustered). However, in a way, that makes her a popular character with me, too, because it keeps me reading in the hopes of seeing her go down in flames. Yes, she's good character.

But I still hate her

[teratorn]

It would seem out of character for someone who seems so in control of herself.

She might do that in private, I agree she is too tough do it in front of other units.

But I still hate her

Even if she cries in the next strip?

[Zelig the Liar]

I'm posting another reply to this, because a scenario occurred to me -- one I don't consider to be particularly likely, but isn't outside the realm of possibility, and is certainly amusing to consider:

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Stanley objects to Parson's order, not because he is opposed to the idea but because he's miffed that Parson showed a bit too much independence for his liking. Once again, he starts yelling out "garbage" in the middle of a critical operation, and potentially boops it up....

I think Stanley has enough confidence in his Chief Warlord now to not screw this up. After all, it was Stanley that ordered Parson back to the wartable to respond to the uncomfortably close Jillian and co. And he just found out that Jillian hates him (durrr), to which he responded, "Well I hate her too." I doubt he'll act to save her.

But you're right, it is amusing to consider - and not outside the realms of possibility. My prediction depends on him acting rationally and predictably.