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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    Tue, and Jillian herself seems to think that the spell is not broken. She seems to refer to herself still as Wanda's "doll." This could be a simple example of her attitude that there is no problem that cannot be fixed with the liberal application of a large sword. There, the dilemma is solved.
    Or she could be referring to her longtime status as one of Wanda's dolls. She most likely still thinks of herself that way, since we know that Wanda did not use only that spell to condition and control Jillian.

    I wonder what else the Archons are capable of? The only indication that the Archons have any fear of or respect for the dwagons is one dropped jaw upon sighting them, but that was a) a surprise, and; b) before they got a sense of how wounded the dwagons are. And we have no idea how Ansom reacted to Jillian's thinkagram.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    I still think Jillian will fall into the lake, thus saving the remaining A-dwagons. We'll see her crawling ashore later, moss in her hair, and a very annoyed look on her face when she looks up and sees Webinar's concerned face looking down at her.
    Uh... Webinar? Concerned for Jillian?

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by John Campbell View Post
    Uh... Webinar? Concerned for Jillian?
    Indeed. Webinar is more likely to shove her back into the lake.
    Power Corrupts. Absolute power is actually kinda cool...*Evil Laugh*

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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    I still think Jillian will fall into the lake, thus saving the remaining A-dwagons. We'll see her crawling ashore later, moss in her hair, and a very annoyed look on her face when she looks up and sees Webinar's concerned face looking down at her.
    I think it's more likely Jillian will plunge into the lake, be presumed dead, and disappear from the story until the last chapter.
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    No it would cause the archons to catch her giving an opening for a big counter assualt.
    The archons will have to fly past dwagons to save Jillian, I think Parson might have the dwagons lodge a few objections to that. Also the archons might not be able to fly there in time. At the very least they will waste time flying to Jillian.

    Lets assume the archons can get to Jillian. An Archon is a lot smaller than a peep. The archons could have trouble flying with Jillian. They could become a lot less manuverable, if they can even lift her.

    But once again for the sake of argument lets assume one archon will have no trouble flying with Jillian. One of them will need an arm to hold on with. Jillian often wields her sword in both hands and the archons used both hands to attack. One of them will lose some attack power. Worse, the archon and Jillian will be right next to each other a fire breath, green gas breath, smoke breath or lighting breath could probably hit both. Possibly also a crap, gum attack, or bite could hit both.

    I don't see how an archon catching Jillian would leave Parson open for a Parson attack.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    The archons will have to fly past dwagons to save Jillian, I think Parson might have the dwagons lodge a few objections to that. Also the archons might not be able to fly there in time. At the very least they will waste time flying to Jillian.

    Lets assume the archons can get to Jillian. An Archon is a lot smaller than a peep. The archons could have trouble flying with Jillian. They could become a lot less manuverable, if they can even lift her.
    It's a good point. I had a hunch that letting Jillian fall into the water would be a good way to end the combat for her with her honor intact but without either croaking her or the dwagons, but you make it clear that even if the archons do see her make a splash they may not be in a position to do anything about it. If the peeps get croaked then the archons may be forced to retreat without her before they follow suit.

    I was reluctant to delve too deeply into this idea earlier because I thought of it as too much meta-plot-reasoning, but I suppose there is nothing really wrong with discussing fiction as fiction, and the idea appeals to me for another reason, in that falling into the water actually provides a way for Jillian to obey the compulsion of the spell. She may not be trying to fall into the water, but she is certainly acting very recklessly here, just as she was reckless when she scouted out G.K. earlier. Subconsciously she wants to fall into the water, and so she is taking all kinds of chances in order to allow that to happen.
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    It's a good point. I had a hunch that letting Jillian fall into the water would be a good way to end the combat for her with her honor intact but without either croaking her or the dwagons, but you make it clear that even if the archons do see her make a splash they may not be in a position to do anything about it. If the peeps get croaked then the archons may be forced to retreat without her before they follow suit.
    If they can. If they are non-warlord units (and Parson's reference to "the warlord", singular, implies that) they have to auto-attack while in contact with the dwagons.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    It's a good point. I had a hunch that letting Jillian fall into the water would be a good way to end the combat for her with her honor intact but without either croaking her or the dwagons, but you make it clear that even if the archons do see her make a splash they may not be in a position to do anything about it. If the peeps get croaked then the archons may be forced to retreat without her before they follow suit.

    I was reluctant to delve too deeply into this idea earlier because I thought of it as too much meta-plot-reasoning, but I suppose there is nothing really wrong with discussing fiction as fiction, and the idea appeals to me for another reason, in that falling into the water actually provides a way for Jillian to obey the compulsion of the spell. She may not be trying to fall into the water, but she is certainly acting very recklessly here, just as she was reckless when she scouted out G.K. earlier. Subconsciously she wants to fall into the water, and so she is taking all kinds of chances in order to allow that to happen.
    I like the way you think. My original idea (which I posted in response to the previous comic, or maybe the one before that) was that she would croak the A dragons and then go get Ansom and try to punch through the B dwagons, putting both sides in bad places.

    I like your idea better. We don't know that Jillian has broken the spell. She's also doing exactly what Sizemore said the spell would make her do: lead recklessly.

    Furthermore, the message Jillian sent Ansom can be considered to be good for Wanda. It allays suspicion that Jillian is a spy. I spy must be trusted to be effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    If they can. If they are non-warlord units (and Parson's reference to "the warlord", singular, implies that) they have to auto-attack while in contact with the dwagons.
    There is also a decent chance that there are special rules for mercenaries.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by fendrin View Post

    There is also a decent chance that there are special rules for mercenaries.
    I was about to say the same thing when my browser crashed.
    Power Corrupts. Absolute power is actually kinda cool...*Evil Laugh*

    "Beatings, beatings, beatings, beatings...and more beatings" -- Jillian Michaels, The Biggest Loser

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    The archons will have to fly past dwagons to save Jillian, I think Parson might have the dwagons lodge a few objections to that. Also the archons might not be able to fly there in time. At the very least they will waste time flying to Jillian.

    Lets assume the archons can get to Jillian. An Archon is a lot smaller than a peep. The archons could have trouble flying with Jillian. They could become a lot less manuverable, if they can even lift her.

    But once again for the sake of argument lets assume one archon will have no trouble flying with Jillian. One of them will need an arm to hold on with. Jillian often wields her sword in both hands and the archons used both hands to attack. One of them will lose some attack power. Worse, the archon and Jillian will be right next to each other a fire breath, green gas breath, smoke breath or lighting breath could probably hit both. Possibly also a crap, gum attack, or bite could hit both.

    I don't see how an archon catching Jillian would leave Parson open for a Parson attack.
    I was saying it would leave team Jillian open to a counter attack.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    It's a good point. I had a hunch that letting Jillian fall into the water would be a good way to end the combat for her with her honor intact but without either croaking her or the dwagons, but you make it clear that even if the archons do see her make a splash they may not be in a position to do anything about it. If the peeps get croaked then the archons may be forced to retreat without her before they follow suit.

    I was reluctant to delve too deeply into this idea earlier because I thought of it as too much meta-plot-reasoning, but I suppose there is nothing really wrong with discussing fiction as fiction, and the idea appeals to me for another reason, in that falling into the water actually provides a way for Jillian to obey the compulsion of the spell. She may not be trying to fall into the water, but she is certainly acting very recklessly here, just as she was reckless when she scouted out G.K. earlier. Subconsciously she wants to fall into the water, and so she is taking all kinds of chances in order to allow that to happen.
    My thought was that perhaps she was setting herself to be captured again. She's put up a credible fight, and if she falls into a dwagon's clutches now, that might dissuade the archons from attacking. And might cause Ansom to think twice about moving to the lake hex. Of course she's basing that on Wanda arranging for the dwagons only to capture her and not to attack her.
    "That's not right, that's not even wrong."

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  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    On the upside, she seems to be so high up that she should hit terminal velocity before she hits the water.

    It'll be quick and relatively painless.
    All she has a Peep ready to catch her. She already called it over just incase she didn't stick the landing. pardon me if someone already pointed this out.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Monan View Post
    All she has a Peep ready to catch her. She already called it over just incase she didn't stick the landing. pardon me if someone already pointed this out.
    However:
    1) she may miss the gwiffon. She was concerned about missing the dwagon, and the gwiffon is a smaller target.

    2) the gwiffon may be croaked before she lands on it.

    3) she may be knocked away from the gwiffon by one of the many attacks about to come her way.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by John Campbell View Post
    Uh... Webinar? Concerned for Jillian?
    Why not? Webinar's problem with Jillian was that he thought she was a traitor. But if he sees that she did her best, proved her loyalty (presumably the Archons would back her up), and got trounced, he'll (a) have a good laugh at her pond-scum-laden expense, (b) be really narked about being wrong about her, and (c) do his best to help his now-proven ally.

    Then she can whack him with that BFS (the one she used as a surfboard to reach the shore) when he's least expecting it.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    Edit: And make no jokes about Jillian trying to use an Archon as a mount. Please?
    Now that would be something.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    i'm wishing soooo much that ansom will be double-croacked next

    indeed, he has chicken, and probably jillian's gonna croack, no matter what (unless she can get a 2-warlord stack of dwagons alone, wich is quite difficult at this point)

    don't forgot, wanda's probably going down too, after all it's all her fault :P

    EDIT: oh wow, i saw just now that i'd like to see half of the main character cast die horribly...lol
    Last edited by Mystyco; 2007-09-12 at 07:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SPoD View Post
    You're kidding, right? This is the comic where one of the main characters worships his own hand puppet

  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    If they can. If they are non-warlord units (and Parson's reference to "the warlord", singular, implies that) they have to auto-attack while in contact with the dwagons.
    Jillian said "you will level" to one of the archons earlier. Do non-warlords level?
    Does Parson have any means of knowing whether (any of) the archons are warlords (or warlord-equivalent)?

  18. - Top - End - #258
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by xKiv View Post
    Jillian said "you will level" to one of the archons earlier. Do non-warlords level?
    Does Parson have any means of knowing whether (any of) the archons are warlords (or warlord-equivalent)?
    We know that some gwiffons are faster than others, and some dwagons are tougher than others of the same color. While this might indicate that newly-popped units of a given type have variations, another possible explanation is that they gain experience and improve.

    As for what Parson knows about the enemy, the situation room Eyemancer display is capable of showing unit stat readouts, which would presumably show special traits such as leadership ability.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-12 at 08:10 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    We know that some gwiffons are faster than others, and some dwagons are tougher than others of the same color. While this might indicate that newly-popped units of a given type have variations, another possible explanation is that they gain experience and improve.

    As for what Parson knows about the enemy, the situation room Eyemancer display is capable of showing unit stat readouts, which would presumably show special traits such as leadership ability.
    Yep, but eighter way, we don't know.
    And on no stat readouts have I seen any mention of experience/level. One would think that if the game had this concept for everyone, it would show.

    Oh, we *do* know that stat readouts show warlord bonuses, right?
    From klog 4, where Parson specificaly mentions that "I am apparently a warlord unit, but nobody can see my stats".

    So the only reason he wouldn't know is if he never bothered to look for it. It might have just been not important enough to get on his agenda yet.
    Incidentally, the warroom board doesn't seem to indicate warlordness (note that the first panel is exactly the warroom-representation of panel 3, with nicely pixellated dwagons and peeps and blue archons ...) - Jillian's representation meshes with one of the spots on Parson's shirt, but I lean towards the "no indication that this is warlord" side.

    And if the thought to check them never even crossed his mind to begin with ...

    Another tangent: can he get stat readouts for *enemy* units?

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by xKiv View Post
    Another tangent: can he get stat readouts for *enemy* units?
    Yes, panel nine here:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0024.html

    seems to indicate they can see enemy stats. Maybe they have to zoom in to do it.
    "That's not right, that's not even wrong."

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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by xKiv View Post
    Incidentally, the warroom board doesn't seem to indicate warlordness<snip>
    Actually, from previous pages like this one, we can see Alliance warlords (Ansom, Vinnie and Tarfu).

    can he get stat readouts for *enemy* units?
    Yes. Or at least some. Look at panel 9. You can see 'Points' and 'Move' under the representation of the gwiffon. Steve put that one in his post, BTW...

    And he'd look for the stats. They'd be important for any gamer, no?
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Wait, isn't the last line "At least I ain't chicken." ?
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  23. - Top - End - #263
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by One Skunk Todd View Post
    Yes, panel nine here:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0024.html

    seems to indicate they can see enemy stats. Maybe they have to zoom in to do it.
    We've seen various levels of zooming in (e.g. the "Well I hate her too" panel shows a smaller number of larger hexes than other views of the table display. It's possible that Parson isn't aware of the stat-display option (though it seems like a fairly obvious thing to ask about), or perhaps the images presented by the Trimancer are similar to real life in that warlords and casters can just see the stats if they focus their attention on a given unit, but Parson can't unless he wears his toy glasses. (The latter is a kind of off-the-wall idea, I admit.)
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-12 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by theKOT View Post
    Wait, isn't the last line "At least I ain't chicken." ?
    Nope. "At least I have chicken."
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    *Comes in, looks around, goes away.*

    *Comes back with soapbox, sets up soapbox.*

    "Ahem: Leeroy has got a SPLITTING HEADACHE."

    *Is shot multiple times, falls down.*

    *Lifts up hand.*

    "Boom, headshot!"
    fool'd you wid' Logic!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    OK, in lieu of another comic, it's time for me to post instead a really odd idea (that I DON'T think is likely, nor, particularly, as good for the story, but still struck me as interesting... I'm just sticking it in spoiler tags on the 0.1% chance I actually manage to be psychic...

    Spoiler
    Show

    A lot of people seem to be hoping for Jillian to die and become uncroaked at Wanda's hand. Ugh. Not only would that be kind of repulsive, it might bring back to life (pun definitely intended) their whole tiresome abusive relationship. (Yes, yes, two women engaged in a D/S relationship makes a lot of guys warm inside for some reason, but when one of those women is using it to manipulate another in a context beyond the relationship and in a way that causes lasting harm both to the submissive person and others, without the submissive being entirely aware of the scope of this cynical manipulation, it's abusive, and abusive relationships leave me cold). Eeek... I'm off on another anti-Wanda tirade... I love them so... anyway... the whole idea of Jillian perishing and Wanda getting her claws into her again got me thinking...

    There's a big fight... Jillian, maybe an Archon or two perish thanks to Parson's hand in matters, even if the good guys (who have an edge here) win. Maybe Wanda goes out to 'uncroak the warlord' (Jillian), only to find...

    Charlie's gotten to her first?

    What are the archons? Angels? Angel-like beings? Their glowing auras, their glowing eyes, their vast power and supernatural flight make an argument for them being, at least on some level, mystical spirits of some sort. Have there been others in the past? Where do they come from? Does Charlie make them? Is he an Overlord who puts all his military power into three uber-units that he then sells off to the highest bidder (hoping to win the game through some as-yet-undescribed economic victory condition? And if he loses one, can he make another?

    Specifically, perhaps if Charlie loses an Archon, he can take his shmuckers/build points/whatever into finding a new, recently-liberated spirit of another attractive young woman and offer her great power and the ability to hang around in Erfworld in return for serving as one of his operatives. I know this is absolute, utter conjecture on my part, but I just got this image of Jillian getting reincarnated to replace a fallen archon, and then having her kick some serious bottom.

    Of course, her 'free spirit' nature kind of argues against working for Charlie, but then again, a free spirit shouldn't be so keen on being completely entrapped by Wanda. Clearly, she has (had?) some issues.
    Last edited by Girl Wonder; 2007-09-12 at 02:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    GW, I disagree with most of what you post here (Perticularly the anti wanda stuff.) I have to admit though, I rather like that idea, and think it is indeed beter than it's alternate. Well thought out. Well done.

    I only disagree on one point. The good guys havn't got the edge.

    The unholy forces of Cute and Plush have the lead ;)
    Last edited by Moral Wiz; 2007-09-12 at 02:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
    What are the archons? Angels? Angel-like beings? <snip>
    So far, they've only shown themselves to be caster units. Very strong caster units, but caster units nonetheless.

    Have their been others in the past?
    Probably.

    Where do they come from? Does Charlie make them?
    I can only assume that they 'pop' like every other unit we've seen so far. Charlie's Fortress is his 'city', so the Archons pop there.

    Is he an Overlord who puts all his military power into three uber-units that he then sells off to the highest bidder
    Well, yeah, Charlie has a lot in the Archons. Are they the ONLY units Charlie has? Well, it would be kind of silly for Charlie to empty out his home city every time someone rented his services...

    (hoping to win the game through some as-yet-undescribed economic victory condition? And if he loses one, can he make another?
    They don't know they're doing what is, to us, playing a game.
    Put another way, in OUR world, which is a RTS... what's the victory condition?

    And, yes, he could probably 'pop' another Archon.
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post

    They don't know they're doing what is, to us, playing a game.
    Put another way, in OUR world, which is a RTS... what's the victory condition?
    Well, no they don't know per se, but they clearly exhibit 'game-like' behavior, making reference to hexes and turns and movement points such as if they are just another fact of life, so I don't think that would preclude their motivations from being similarly game-like, at least in the case of an Overlord. Perhaps Charlie only knows of the ancient 'Book of Rool' that prophesizes that 'He who doth gather in one place shmuckers numbering 50 millions shall become a lord such that no man, elf or dwagon may dare to oppose him!', but having read it, that's now his goal in life (even if he doesn't think of it, literally, as 'winning the game.'

    This could be a whole new thread actually... what ARE the 'Victory Conditions' in Erfworld? Is it simply conquering all enemies? Or are there alternate paths, such as the aforementioned gold accrual? A lot of good games have different multiple paths to victory, some even have different conditions for different factions. And while Charlie hoards his gold and King Slately and others seek a military victory for their alliance, is Stanley actually working toward his own set of victory conditions by acquiring and attuning all four Arkentools? That would be a much neater game, in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 76, page 70

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
    Well, no they don't know per se, but they clearly exhibit 'game-like' behavior, making reference to hexes and turns and movement points such as if they are just another fact of life, so I don't think that would preclude their motivations from being similarly game-like, at least in the case of an Overlord.
    And we make references to miles, meters, inches, feet, minutes, seconds, hours, MPH, KPH, FPS. It's the Local Reality.

    You could say that some World Leaders, both past and present, exhibit game-like behavior in the Aggressive Expansion mode of thought (RTS, of course). Build armies, conquer land, concern about supply, research new technologies to make conquering even more land easier...

    We could be playing a game (like the Erfworlders), but not know it (again, like the Erfworlders).
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

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