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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default I'm Out

    I'm out.

    Don't want to deal with this site anymore
    Last edited by Derpaligtr; 2018-09-07 at 05:24 PM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Blackbando's Avatar

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    Nov 2016
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    Default Re: The Blue Mage: A class that gets better when things get worse!

    I love me some blue magic, but I'm afraid this class doesn't really do blue magic justice. I made my own attempt at blue magic a while back, and I think I can offer some somewhat decent advice. Hopefully.

    First of all, remove all these random dead levels. They don't have a "slot level" for their spells, so the fact they just kind of have no features at some random levels is odd. You did say it's nowhere near completed, so that could be why they're there, but, I figured I might as well point them out anyways, just in case that part was actually intentional.

    Second, the damage scales way too slowly. I'd recommend making it scale when fullcaster slots do, if you're keeping the damage scaling system. Keep in mind that a 5th level spell (which a 9th level caster would have) is about 8d10 for a single target or 8d6 for multi-target according to the DMG (even though I don't really agree because fireball which they intentionally made overpowered, but due to this made it so that 5th-level spells have to be better to be able to compete. Blue magic is fine with using that, though, since it has added versatility.)

    Now, personally, I don't exactly like the idea of blue mages being a pact caster. Not only does it not really make much sense fluff-wise (at least, not from what you seem to be giving us so far), but it also severely limits them, as they don't even get cantrips, like warlocks do.

    When I tried this, a while back, I made them a regular fullcaster, with slots, cantrips, etc., and made a chart (which was basically just the DMG's spell damage chart with some info on conditions and effects affecting damage) to determine how much damage a monster ability had to do to be considered a spell of a level (usually spells with no effect or a minor effect that did low damage, like a greataxe, became a cantrip). This allowed them to be a lot more useful in combat than this current blue mage you have, now.

    Now, if you want to keep the pact caster system, you can, but I'd recommend upping the amount of spell slots. By RAW, these can't be used for spells of other classes, so there's no issue in multiclassing becoming a problem. I don't know an exact number that'd make it better, but, maybe eventually being around... 7 or 8 at 20th level? Something like that. The class will still suffer from the inability to do a lot once its slots are all gone, but at least it can have more, this way.

    Hopefully I was helpful!
    Last edited by Blackbando; 2018-06-06 at 07:14 AM.
    Check out my homebrew blog, Bando's Homebrew!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Nov 2011

    Default Re: The Blue Mage: A class that gets better when things get worse!

    Have you read "Tales From The Vulgar Unicorn?" The original Blue Mage is one of the PoV characters. Later volumes deal with many aspects of being a Blue Mage, including the organization behind them.

    One aspect I like is their major disability: each Blue Mage has a secret, the revelation of which permanently strips them of their power.

    As a DM I might rule that revealing the secret forces the mage to dismiss all active spells and require a full rest before being able to cast again. This secret should be one worth hiding as opposed to something which is in effect nothing more than a trigger for a spell effect. So, for example, a person who betrayed his family to gain power has something to hide, while having the character's name said backwards is a trigger, but has no relevance to the character.

    For PCs, the permanent loss of spellcasting ability is a severe penalty. This is why I advocate the temporary loss of power. However, should a Blue Mage's secret become commonly known the mage will effectively become useless. In this case I advocate a quest to return to the college of Blue Magi to be granted another secret.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    May 2018

    Default Re: The Blue Mage: A class that gets better when things get worse!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbando View Post
    I love me some blue magic, but I'm afraid this class doesn't really do blue magic justice. I made my own attempt at blue magic a while back, and I think I can offer some somewhat decent advice. Hopefully.

    First of all, remove all these random dead levels. They don't have a "slot level" for their spells, so the fact they just kind of have no features at some random levels is odd. You did say it's nowhere near completed, so that could be why they're there, but, I figured I might as well point them out anyways, just in case that part was actually intentional.

    Second, the damage scales way too slowly. I'd recommend making it scale when fullcaster slots do, if you're keeping the damage scaling system. Keep in mind that a 5th level spell (which a 9th level caster would have) is about 8d10 for a single target or 8d6 for multi-target according to the DMG (even though I don't really agree because fireball which they intentionally made overpowered, but due to this made it so that 5th-level spells have to be better to be able to compete. Blue magic is fine with using that, though, since it has added versatility.)

    Now, personally, I don't exactly like the idea of blue mages being a pact caster. Not only does it not really make much sense fluff-wise (at least, not from what you seem to be giving us so far), but it also severely limits them, as they don't even get cantrips, like warlocks do.

    When I tried this, a while back, I made them a regular fullcaster, with slots, cantrips, etc., and made a chart (which was basically just the DMG's spell damage chart with some info on conditions and effects affecting damage) to determine how much damage a monster ability had to do to be considered a spell of a level (usually spells with no effect or a minor effect that did low damage, like a greataxe, became a cantrip). This allowed them to be a lot more useful in combat than this current blue mage you have, now.

    Now, if you want to keep the pact caster system, you can, but I'd recommend upping the amount of spell slots. By RAW, these can't be used for spells of other classes, so there's no issue in multiclassing becoming a problem. I don't know an exact number that'd make it better, but, maybe eventually being around... 7 or 8 at 20th level? Something like that. The class will still suffer from the inability to do a lot once its slots are all gone, but at least it can have more, this way.

    Hopefully I was helpful!
    Well, Blue Mages are always shown as being "weird" and nothing says "weird caster" in 5e as much as Pact Magic. Though, to be fair, it isn't full on Pact Magic as it's more of just a short rest caster.

    Though, I'm biased, I think the short rest casting mechanic is far superior to the full casting system when it comes to actually playing the game. I would rather not have to make my team's progress be dictated by my long rests. Nothing sucks more than being a short rest character and having to stop adventuring because your team mates don't have their cool things :/ (and no, cantrips aren't that amazing). The biggest difference between Pact Magic and Blue Magic is that you can adjust your spells by forgetting spells during a long rest and that this blue mage may not get cantrips, but does have a beefy concentration ability that takes the place of cantrips. The Blue Mage can keep a Concentration Blue Magic spell going until they rest or cast another concentration spell (blue magic or otherwise). So if you cast Ogre's Club, you get to keep Ogre's Club active while you cast any instantaneous blue magic spell (or other spell from a different source).

    Dead levels may be removed, not sure what to add to them as of right now. Sometimes less is more and I could work around the rest of the class to make the dead levels need to be there.

    Spell Slots... No clue. For now I just didn't want it to have too many spell slots and look weird. You're right about the multiclassing bit and that more slots won't cause an issue there.

    The damage scaling was mostly with the thought of at-will cantrip-like damage. I might actually put that under the Blue Magic Concentration section... Then give the instantaneous spells their own damage progression within themselves.


    Everything helps, thank you :). If I keep responding to this, I won't be making any changes to my Blue Mage so I'm going to get back at it!


    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Have you read "Tales From The Vulgar Unicorn?" The original Blue Mage is one of the PoV characters. Later volumes deal with many aspects of being a Blue Mage, including the organization behind them.

    One aspect I like is their major disability: each Blue Mage has a secret, the revelation of which permanently strips them of their power.

    As a DM I might rule that revealing the secret forces the mage to dismiss all active spells and require a full rest before being able to cast again. This secret should be one worth hiding as opposed to something which is in effect nothing more than a trigger for a spell effect. So, for example, a person who betrayed his family to gain power has something to hide, while having the character's name said backwards is a trigger, but has no relevance to the character.

    For PCs, the permanent loss of spellcasting ability is a severe penalty. This is why I advocate the temporary loss of power. However, should a Blue Mage's secret become commonly known the mage will effectively become useless. In this case I advocate a quest to return to the college of Blue Magi to be granted another secret.
    I would never screw over a player in such a massive way, especially in a tabletop game. Not only would something like this not mesh well with 5e, it pulls focus. The system would need to be made around that and everyone would need to be in on it... Even then, it's a huge detriment that would get old very fast.

    It's one of those things that works better in a different medium than tabletop game.

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