Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #34: Mere mortal, not immortal, not starcrossed, anymore

[Venger]

A 126 Yes

A 127 Racial paragons don't let you freely multiclass for monk/paladin like the ascetic (whatever) and (such and such) knight feats. What that section means is that you can use them with normal classes, and they aren't intended to be a separate thing like generic classes.

[RangerDiddly]

Q128: How, if any, would one go about becoming immortal? I've done a little research but I have yet to find one clear cut loophole that wouldn't anger a deity/devil.

My sorcerer suggested some sort of anti-aging spell followed by permanency. Is this feasible? And if so;

Q129: What cost (both in XP and materials) would you require from a sorcerer doing such a thing?

[Venger]

A 128 This is beyond the scope of this thread. Read the immortality handbook which provides many options.

A 129 It varies depending on the method. Again, check the immortality handbook to see which flavor of immortality give you all the special powers you want.

[Arkhios]

Q 130

Are there any rules for smelting a weapon and using the smelted materials for a new weapon?

For example, I found an adamantine longsword, but would prefer to smelt it and make a heavy pick from it. Logic says it should be possible, but what about the rules? (D&D and Logic rarely walk hand in hand, it's why I ask)

[Khedrac]

Q 130

Are there any rules for smelting a weapon and using the smelted materials for a new weapon?

For example, I found an adamantine longsword, but would prefer to smelt it and make a heavy pick from it. Logic says it should be possible, but what about the rules? (D&D and Logic rarely walk hand in hand, it's why I ask)

A 130 Simple answer: No, there are no rules for this.

More complex answer "it's worse than that". There are rules for damaging items with fire and heat (just factor in object hardness and only taking half damage because it is fire damage) so when you start to try to melt the sword it will start taking damage. While the sword still has at least 1hp left it is still a solid sword, suitable for hitting people with; when the sword reaches 0hp it is destroyed and nothing remains.
This is further compicated by the existence of mending and similar spells which repair broken objects...

One thing to bear in mind, a longword weighs 4lb and is (virtually) all metal; a heavy pick weighs 6lb and may or may not have a wooden handle...

[Arkhios]

A 130 Simple answer: No, there are no rules for this.

More complex answer "it's worse than that". There are rules for damaging items with fire and heat (just factor in object hardness and only taking half damage because it is fire damage) so when you start to try to melt the sword it will start taking damage. While the sword still has at least 1hp left it is still a solid sword, suitable for hitting people with; when the sword reaches 0hp it is destroyed and nothing remains.
This is further compicated by the existence of mending and similar spells which repair broken objects...

One thing to bear in mind, a longword weighs 4lb and is (virtually) all metal; a heavy pick weighs 6lb and may or may not have a wooden handle...

Ah, so in other words, it's as I suspected. D&D has no rules that would make any logical sense in this regard in particular.

[Falontani]

A 130;
While there may not be rules for reforging, there is the spell Metal Melt

[ComaVision]

Q 118

Is there any way for an Artificer to emulate or otherwise get around skill rank requirements for item creation? For example, the 5 ranks of Jump for Boots of Striding and Springing.

Unsure of proper procedure but quoting from the previous page because it may have been missed.

[Falontani]

A118
Afb, however rules to do exactly this are covered in use magic device.

[zergling.exe]

A118
Afb, however rules to do exactly this are covered in use magic device.

I think you're thinking of PF rules, UMD in 3.5 just lets you emulate having prereqs for using magic items, not for crafting them.

[Falontani]

I think you're thinking of PF rules, UMD in 3.5 just lets you emulate having prereqs for using magic items, not for crafting them.

Apologies! Didn't see the item creation. As reprimand when I am home I will pour over artificer.

[Metahuman1]

Q 131: I know there's a rule floating around that energy resistance, particularly from the Resist Energy Spell, only works on one attack/blast per round. (So, if you have fire resistance from resist energy, and 2 separate red dragons breath weapon you on the same round, it only helps vs. 1 of them.).

My question is, what book is that rule in, and what page number is it on? I need to reference it for someone.

[Crichton]

Q132

Can a Psicrystal using the self-propulsion ability carry a Power Stone? They have a listed STR of 1(when self-propulsion is activated), and Power Stones don't have a listed weight, but are probably lower than the 3lb light encumbrance limit of a STR 1 character.

[zergling.exe]

Q 131: I know there's a rule floating around that energy resistance, particularly from the Resist Energy Spell, only works on one attack/blast per round. (So, if you have fire resistance from resist energy, and 2 separate red dragons breath weapon you on the same round, it only helps vs. 1 of them.).

My question is, what book is that rule in, and what page number is it on? I need to reference it for someone.

A 131

That is an old rule from 3.0 that made it into the 3.5 DMG, but is contradicted by the updated rules in both the 3.5 PHB and 3.5 MM1. Resist Energy also states that it applies to each attack, with no round limit to the amount it protects against.

Spoiler: Rules Text

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The subject gains
energy resistance 10 against the energy
type chosen, meaning that each time the
creature is subjected to such damage
(whether from a natural or magical
source), that damage is reduced by 10
points before being applied to the creature’s
hit points.

resistance to energy: A creature with resistance to an energy
type ignores a certain amount of damage dealt by that energy type
each time it is dealt. For instance, a creature with fire resistance 10
ignores the first 10 points of fire damage dealt by each attack.
Resistance to energy doesn’t affect the saving throw made against
the attack (if any). Multiple sources of resistance to a certain energy
type (such as a spell and a special quality of a monster) don’t stack
with each other; only the highest value applies to any given attack.

Resistance to Energy (Ex):A creature with this special quality
ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage
of that kind (commonly acid, cold, fire, or electricity). The
entry indicates the amount and type of damage ignored. For
example, a lillend has resistance to fire 10, so it ignores the first 10
points of fire damage dealt to it anytime it takes fire damage

A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually
extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type (such as cold,
electricity, or fire) each round, but it does not have total immunity.

Resistance to Energy

Count the creature's resistance from the start of its turn to the start of its
turn the next round. Its resistance "resets" on its turn.

[Metahuman1]

A 131

That is an old rule from 3.0 that made it into the 3.5 DMG, but is contradicted by the updated rules in both the 3.5 PHB and 3.5 MM1. Resist Energy also states that it applies to each attack, with no round limit to the amount it protects against.

Spoiler: Rules Text

Show

Can you tell me were it crops up in the 3.5 DMG? What page number?

(I wouldn't press it, but the player who's asking for verification seems more interested in making himself more powerful relative to the party than in actual fairness. Otherwise he wouldn't be complaining about a strategy we can't implement for a couple of combat rounds that the GM already agreed we should know works in character and would work, and that is going to require 2 characters working in concert to pull it off for perhaps not even the most powerful results we could be tapping. )

So, yeah, that Page Number for the DMG thing would be great, if anyone has it?

[Arkhios]

Q132

Can a Psicrystal using the self-propulsion ability carry a Power Stone? They have a listed STR of 1(when self-propulsion is activated), and Power Stones don't have a listed weight, but are probably lower than the 3lb light encumbrance limit of a STR 1 character.

A 132 Since Psicrystal is a Diminutive Construct and has STR 1, it's upper limit for a light load is at 1.5 lb. Other than that, unless the Psicrystal has hands, I don't think it can hold, let alone carry anything. Self-propulsion only grants the Psicrystal "spidery, ectoplasmic legs that grant the psicrystal a land speed of 30 feet and a climb speed of 20 feet." (emphasis mine).

[zergling.exe]

Can you tell me were it crops up in the 3.5 DMG? What page number?

(I wouldn't press it, but the player who's asking for verification seems more interested in making himself more powerful relative to the party than in actual fairness. Otherwise he wouldn't be complaining about a strategy we can't implement for a couple of combat rounds that the GM already agreed we should know works in character and would work, and that is going to require 2 characters working in concert to pull it off for perhaps not even the most powerful results we could be tapping. )

So, yeah, that Page Number for the DMG thing would be great, if anyone has it?

Page 298, in the Index as "Resistance to Energy".

[Troacctid]

Page 298, in the Index as "Resistance to Energy".

???

[Metahuman1]

Um, yeah, I'm seeing that in that page of the DMG as well. Are, you certain it wasn't just a 3.0 rule? (Not that I'd at all complain if it says so, just not on that particular page or in that particular book in Core so that I can just point to that in this instance.)

[zergling.exe]

My DMG (a PDF if that matters) says each round in the first paragraph and each attack in the second as part of the example. Maybe it's an error that got through the first printing and was corrected for later printings?

Spoiler

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[Thurbane]

I know some people stubbornly refuse to accept rules compendium as the most up-to-date source, but here's what RC says on energy resistance:

Each resistance is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. For instance, if a creature has resistance to fire 10, it can ignore the first 10 points of fire damage it takes from each attack. The source of the damage, mundane or magical, doesn’t matter.

This is also in-line with the Glossary:

resistance to energy
A creature with this special quality (extraordinary) ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage of that kind (commonly acid, cold, fire, or electricity). The entry indicates the amount and type of damage ignored. For example, a witchknife has resistance to fire 5, so it ignores the first 5 points of fire damage dealt to it anytime it takes fire damage.

Source: PHB, DMG, MM, MM3

[zergling.exe]

I know some people stubbornly refuse to accept rules compendium as the most up-to-date source, but here's what RC says on energy resistance:



This is also in-line with the Glossary:

I quoted the PHB and MM versions which both agree with the RC and Metahuman asked for proof of the old version, so I provided what I had. Everyone here seems to be in agreement that it is per attack and not per round. Probably in some misguided attempt to stop a power gamer I'm assuming. Though it appears that not ALL versions of the DMG have the 3.0 rule printed in them, as Troacctid and Metahuman both don't have it.

[Metahuman1]

Q 133: Can someone point me to were, precisely, it says that anyone with

An Amulet of Mighty Fists with a +1 or Higher Bonus,

A Necklace of Natural Weapons key'd to the Natural weapon in use with a bonus of +1 or higher,

A Magic weapon with a bonus of +1 or higher,

Any manufactured (Or in the monk and unarmed swordsage's case, weapon treated as such for spells and the like.) weapon that is subject to an oil or casting of either Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon,

Any Natural Weapon subject to an oil or casting of either Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang,

automatically Bypasses DR/Magic?


Cause that guy I was complaining about is now insisting to the DM that it's straight up core RAW that those things don't do that, and that only certain select items he refuses to provide a comprehensive list of, likely buried in the Magic Item Compendium somewhere, can bypass DR/Magic. That having these things bypass DR/Magic is a blatant house rule.

Which means the other 3 members of the party that aren't him are going to have to fail a batch of quest objectives that are time sensitive and run away from a fight we won't be able to win if this is enforced.

Unless you guys can give me a page number and book name or two that explicitly call this out as being bunk and lay it out in no uncertain terms that those things explicitly DO bypass DR/Magic, as RAW, no if's and's or but's about it.

[Khedrac]

A 133: I'd start with the glossaries at the back of the PHB DMG and Monster Manual.

I'm afb right now, so the closest I can get is the SRD, Minster Tyles, Subtypes and Special Abilities section:

Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.
---
snip
---
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Pretty explicit.

In this case, with such a sweeping statement from the player out to ruin everyone else's fun I would ask him to provide evidence of the rule he is claiming exists..

[KillianHawkeye]

A 133

Is this guy kidding? That's literally the definition of DR X/magic!


Have some page references:

Dungeon Master's Guide v.3.5, page 291
Monster Manual v.3.5, page 307
Rules Compendium, page 41

[Metahuman1]

Khedrac :

I did ask him to site an exact comprehensive list of everything that could overcome DR/Magic according to him. He blatantly refused and kept insisting that Amulets of Mighty Fists can't do it so my character had to just eat the DR affecting all of her attacks, unless the DM wanted to make a house rule.



KillianHawkeye :

Nope. He was dead serious. He wasn't content with ruining the team attack with fire plan. He wanted to try and F-up our melee options as well in the hopes we'd have to beat a retreat, and fail time sensitive goals in universe. I guess to make sure he could have his character in a position were, agreed upon RAW, he could defeat any member of the party, there for when his character meets with ours, it can begin imposing it's will on us. (Only goal I can imagine that makes sense given his is an evil character and everyone else is a good character.).





Anyway, thanks for the info guys. Hopefully this will be enough for the DM to tell him he got 1 win out of 2, so be content with it and shut up.

[KillianHawkeye]

Tell him to stop being a jackass.

[aquanight]

Q 134

I'm having trouble sorting out how the action works with the Psionic Fist, Psionic Weapon, and Psionic Shot feats (as well as their "touch attack" variants). The wording is near identical on all of these but it's not clear what type of action is involved with these feats.

The feats explicitly require you to expend your psionic focus to use them, so it's pretty clear that some kind of "use" is involved. The feats themselves do not specify what type of action this however, which leads to the problem I'm having: as psionic feats, they are supernatural abilities, and as such, "using" them is a standard action by default.

So which of these statements is correct?

• Using the feat is a standard action. Since the feat modifies your attack but doesn't actually say you get to make an attack, you'd need another standard action to do so. Result: these feats are actually completely useless.
• Using the feat is a standard action, and you implicitly can make an appropriate attack (with the feat's bonus) as part of it. Result: they work, but some of the combinations I've read about like Psionic Shot + Manyshot don't actually work.
• I missed something that exempts psionic feats from the "standard action by default" rule, and, similar to the likes of Power Attack, the feats don't require actions themselves, allowing Psionic Shot + Manyshot, or Unavoidable Strike/Deep Impact + some maneuver of a sort, etc.
• Other...

[Troacctid]

Q 134

I'm having trouble sorting out how the action works with the Psionic Fist, Psionic Weapon, and Psionic Shot feats (as well as their "touch attack" variants). The wording is near identical on all of these but it's not clear what type of action is involved with these feats.

The feats explicitly require you to expend your psionic focus to use them, so it's pretty clear that some kind of "use" is involved. The feats themselves do not specify what type of action this however, which leads to the problem I'm having: as psionic feats, they are supernatural abilities, and as such, "using" them is a standard action by default.

So which of these statements is correct?

• Using the feat is a standard action. Since the feat modifies your attack but doesn't actually say you get to make an attack, you'd need another standard action to do so. Result: these feats are actually completely useless.
• Using the feat is a standard action, and you implicitly can make an appropriate attack (with the feat's bonus) as part of it. Result: they work, but some of the combinations I've read about like Psionic Shot + Manyshot don't actually work.
• I missed something that exempts psionic feats from the "standard action by default" rule, and, similar to the likes of Power Attack, the feats don't require actions themselves, allowing Psionic Shot + Manyshot, or Unavoidable Strike/Deep Impact + some maneuver of a sort, etc.
• Other...

It is part of the action used to attack.

Many psionic feats can be used only when you are psionically focused; others require you to expend your psionic focus to gain their benefit. Expending your psionic focus does not require an action; it is part of another action (such as using a feat). When you expend your psionic focus, it applies only to the action for which you expended it.

[flappeercraft]

Q135
If you were to apply extend spell on Creeping Cold to make it last more than 3 rounds, would the damage dice increase past the 3 given on the example in the description since there is no cap? My guess is yes.