Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #34: Mere mortal, not immortal, not starcrossed, anymore

[St Fan]

Where does it say a Wizard can't scribe sorcerer or any other spontaneous spellcaster's scrolls into his spellbook?

"Sorcerer spells" and "other spontaneous spellcasters" spells are not the same things at all.

Sorcerer spells (except for a few rare "sorcerer only" spells) are generally tagged as being from the "Sorcerer/Wizard" spell list, implying they are identical between both classes (they always are the same level, for once). A wizard will have no problem copying them to his spell book. Sorcerer-only spells, however, are not on the Wizard spell list and thus cannot be used without expending said spell list.

Spells from other spontaneous arcane classes is another can of worm. If the spell is arcane and present on the Wizard spell list, and at the same level, it may be allowed to be copied. However, the GM can perfectly rule that the bard version (for example) of a spell is different from the wizard version, and thus couldn't be used.

If it is of a different level than the wizard version, however, this definitely indicate a different spell and thus it cannot be used at all by a wizard as a wizard spell -- it is considered to not be on his spell list.

Addendum: I noticed an easily overlooked point in your question: there is a difference between a wizard copying a spell to his spell book, and being able to cast the spell. In some specific conditions, a wizard can copy a spell that isn't in the wizard spell list on his spell book. That doesn't mean he'll be able to memorize it and cast it afterward (as a wizard); the spell still needs to be in the wizard spell list for this.

Expanding this anymore would certainly goes beyond a simple RAW thread, though.

[Troacctid]

Q 434

Can a wizard scribe a spell from a prc that is of lower level into their spellbook?
A demonologist's lesser planar binding is 3rd level. Can a wizard buy a scroll of a 3rd level LPD and scribe it into his spellbook and prepare and cast it?
Everything I read says "must be on the wizard's class spell list", which it is, but on a different spell level, and there's no language that the spell level must be equal as well

There's also no language that would cause the newly scribed spell to be an exact duplicate of the spell as it appeared in the scroll, rather than defaulting to how it appears on your class spell list.

We can imagine three different readings of the rules (AFAICT):
1. The spell is on your spell list as a 5th level spell, and because the scroll is at a different level, it's not the same spell as it appears on your class spell list, and you can't copy it.
2. The spell is on your class spell list, so you can copy it. The spell is copied into your spellbook as it appears on the scroll, regardless of how it normally appears on your class spell list.
3. The spell is on your class spell list, so you can copy it. Nothing in the rules allows you to also copy any other properties of the scroll. The spell defaults to the normal version that appears on your spell list, and you copy it as a 5th level spell.

The first interpretation falls apart once you start applying it to other rules scenarios. For example, it would prevent a paladin from using a wand of lesser restoration or an adept from using a scroll of heal, and metamagic items couldn't be used at all by anybody. I would strongly disagree with this reading.

The second interpretation gets really weird when you try to apply it to metamagic spells. Assuming empowered magic missile still counts as magic missile, you would copy it as a 3rd level spell that is still empowered.

The third interpretation doesn't produce any weird or unintuitive results, and I would expect it to be the favored reading for most DMs, as it cleaves closest to the RAI and won't lead to any dysfunctions or balance concerns.

[Uncle Pine]

Q 435
The Flyby Attack feat reads:

Flyby Attack [General]
Prerequisite
Fly speed.

Benefit
When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.

Normal
Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move.

Does this mean that, for example, a dragon with Flyby Attack can dive (making an attack at the end of its movement as per the dive action) while also using its breath weapon at any point during its movement?

[Crichton]

Q 436


Do flat-rate armor properties(ie Easy Travel, MIC pg 10) still require that the armor be +1 before they can be added, or is that only for armor properties that also count as a 'plus X' enhancement?

[Troacctid]

Q 435
The Flyby Attack feat reads:

Does this mean that, for example, a dragon with Flyby Attack can dive (making an attack at the end of its movement as per the dive action) while also using its breath weapon at any point during its movement?

The odd wording is a vestige of the 3.0 rules for partial actions. When the feat was originally written, it let you use a partial action during your move, and a move action was already a type of partial action, so the use of "another" made sense. In 3.5, that's no longer the case, and so the feat is dysfunctional. Now the use of "another" implies that you get an additional standard action—but the "Normal" section still implies that it replaces your existing standard action, and the bit about a move action including a dive (which is a full-round action) doesn't make any sense at all. Piecing it together results in the interpretation you described (so the answer to your question is technically yes), but with several question marks attached to it, so be sure to consult your DM.

[Uncle Pine]

Q 436


Do flat-rate armor properties(ie Easy Travel, MIC pg 10) still require that the armor be +1 before they can be added, or is that only for armor properties that also count as a 'plus X' enhancement?

A 436
The former. Armors, shields, and weapons all need at least a +1 bonus (which in turn requires the item to be masterwork) before being enchanted further: the DMG guidelines on magic items (also on the SRD) specifically refer to tables 7-5, 7-6, and 7-14, all of which contain special abilities that are priced as bonuses and flat gp cost.

[Arkhios]

Q437

Does the Dragon Disciple increase the character's caster level by any amount?

To my reading it seems that it doesn't. It only says the character gains additional spells known of the levels they can cast, but it doesn't seem to say anything about increasing the caster level of your spells.

[St Fan]

Q 433 (repost from previous page)

About Total Defense:

A) You're not limited to using Total Defense in a fight, right? Can you can use it while cautiously moving through a corridor you're suspecting to be trapped, or expecting an ambush...?

B) You can't use attacks of opportunity following using a standard action for Total Defense on your turn. However, are you still threatening opponents while using Total Defense? Can you still flank them?

And a new one:

Q 438

How do the Sun School tactical feat and the Blink Shirt soulmeld interact?

By shaping incarnum into a shirt resembling blink dog fur, you gain the ability to teleport (as dimension door) up to 10 feet at will. Using this ability is a standard action. After using this ability, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.

Flash of Sunset: To use this maneuver, you must move adjacent to a foe instantaneously, as with a dimension door spell or the monk's abundant step class feature. If you do so, you can immediately make a single attack at your highest attack bonus against that foe.

Does the limitation to the Blink Shirt teleportation to "no action until your next turn" prevent the single attack allowed by Flash of Sunset? Or is it not considered an "action" per se but a bonus attack, and would still work?

(For that matter, does "actions until your next turn" would also forbid attack of opportunities?)

[Troacctid]

Q437

Does the Dragon Disciple increase the character's caster level by any amount?

To my reading it seems that it doesn't. It only says the character gains additional spells known of the levels they can cast, but it doesn't seem to say anything about increasing the caster level of your spells.

No.

Q 433 (repost from previous page)

About Total Defense:

A) You're not limited to using Total Defense in a fight, right? Can you can use it while cautiously moving through a corridor you're suspecting to be trapped, or expecting an ambush...?

Generally, no. See DMG page 25, "Combat Actions outside Combat."

B) You can't use attacks of opportunity following using a standard action for Total Defense on your turn. However, are you still threatening opponents while using Total Defense? Can you still flank them?

Yes.

Q 438

How do the Sun School tactical feat and the Blink Shirt soulmeld interact?





Does the limitation to the Blink Shirt teleportation to "no action until your next turn" prevent the single attack allowed by Flash of Sunset? Or is it not considered an "action" per se but a bonus attack, and would still work?

(For that matter, does "actions until your next turn" would also forbid attack of opportunities?)

Flash of Sunset specifically says it works with dimension door.

[RoboEmperor]

Q 439

Can you create a Permanent Image of your (destroyed) spellbook and use it to prepare spells?


Q 440

Can you use Major Creation to recreat your (destroyed) spellbook?

[unseenmage]

Q441
Are spell books mundane, eg non-magical, items?

[Seak]

Q 422442
How do multiple contradictory subtypes interact?
For example, a warforged saint who is an outsider with the living construct and native subtypes. He need not breathe for being a living construct, but he must breath for being an outsider with the native type. How does this resolve?

[Debatra]

A 441 Yes, though there are some magical variants.

[Troacctid]

Q 439

Can you create a Permanent Image of your (destroyed) spellbook and use it to prepare spells?

No.

Q 440

Can you use Major Creation to recreat your (destroyed) spellbook?

You can make a spellbook, but it won't have any spells in it. There are strict rules for scribing spells into spellbooks and major creation doesn't have any clause in it that would bypass them.

Q441
Are spell books mundane, eg non-magical, items?

Yes. While they are imbued with magic in their creation, they are not sustained by magic, and they do not count as magic items. Blessed book et al are of course an exception.

[RoboEmperor]

No.

Could you be a little more clear? Why not?

You can make a spellbook, but it won't have any spells in it. There are strict rules for scribing spells into spellbooks and major creation doesn't have any clause in it that would bypass them.

That is an interesting point. There are strict restrictions on how you can add spells to a spellbook, and since you neither have a spellbook or a scroll to copy from, I guess it makes sense. I guess the question is, if you do have said spellbook or a scroll, or you want to write a spell you've already prepared, can you use major creation then? After all, all the spellcraft checks are done before the actual writing of the spell which doesn't require any checks at all

Yes. While they are imbued with magic in their creation, they are not sustained by magic, and they do not count as magic items. Blessed book et al are of course an exception.

If they're 100% mundane then why can't you use an illusion?

[jdizzlean]

Q423

is it legal, by RAW, to take say cloistered cleric, and then progress back into regular cleric for successive levels?


I don't see, other then it saying in the header of the alternate class section in UA, that it's anything other than DM fiat as to whether the alternates replace/co-exist/don't exist in the first place.

[RoboEmperor]

Q423

is it legal, by RAW, to take say cloistered cleric, and then progress back into regular cleric for successive levels?


I don't see, other then it saying in the header of the alternate class section in UA, that it's anything other than DM fiat as to whether the alternates replace/co-exist/don't exist in the first place.

Yes it's illegal. Cloistered Cleric is a normal cleric with alternate class features. You are swapping certain class features of the cleric for the cloistered cleric's class features.

[Troacctid]

Could you be a little more clear? Why not?

The illusory spellbook would not contain any spells because you didn't scribe any spells into it. See "Replacing and Copying Spellbooks" (PH p179/RC p160) for the proper procedure to do this.

I guess the question is, if you do have said spellbook or a scroll, or you want to write a spell you've already prepared, can you use major creation then? After all, all the spellcraft checks are done before the actual writing of the spell which doesn't require any checks at all

Special quills, inks, and other supplies are required to scribe a spell into a spellbook. DM discretion as to whether major creation can generate them all. Either way, you'd still need to scribe the spells (as per the aforementioned rules) if you want the spellbook to be functional.

[ezekielraiden]

Q423 Q443

is it legal, by RAW, to take say cloistered cleric, and then progress back into regular cleric for successive levels?

I don't see, other then it saying in the header of the alternate class section in UA, that it's anything other than DM fiat as to whether the alternates replace/co-exist/don't exist in the first place.

A443 (Note that there was a typo in the question number before yours.)

"RAW" isn't really the appropriate word when the text explicitly says that sometimes a thing works fine, sometimes it doesn't, and the DM must decide. (This text also appears in the SRD.) That said, at the very least with Cloistered Cleric, it seems to me very clear RAW that *separate* characters can be one or the other, which is not always clear for other things (like divine bard). Multiclassing between them seems a lot more like the forbidden multiclassing between different Specialist Wizard types, but I hesitate to call that an official rule for Cleric variants.

Edit: just in case, since rereading your question makes me think this paragraph might have been missed, or that we might be talking about different text (from the SRD):

Multiclassing And Variant Classes
Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

So in short the answer seems to be no, there is no RAW other than "ask your DM." While I guess you can call that DM fiat, the term feels slightly misapplied here, since the text explicitly calls for the DM to decide; there's nothing arbitrary or extra-textual about it, which "DM fiat" strongly implies IME.

However, by RAW at the end of that paragraph, it explicitly says that spellcasting doesn't ever stack between variants. Further, in the next paragraph, we're told only one variant ever counts for your favored class. Those two combined would serve as a pretty strong RAW deterrent to ever blending regular and Cloistered Cleric (or any two variants of the same spellcasting class).

[Thurbane]

Q 444

Is it possible to put Corrupt spells into a wand, scroll or similar? If so, is the corruption cost paid when the item is created, or when it is activated?

[Falontani]

Q 444

Is it possible to put Corrupt spells into a wand, scroll or similar? If so, is the corruption cost paid when the item is created, or when it is activated?

A444
You can

If a corrupt spell is made into a potion, scroll, wand, or
some other magic item, the user of the item takes the ability damage or ability drain, not the creator. This “corruption cost,” mentioned in the spell’s descriptive-text, is paid each time the item is used.

[Thurbane]

Q 445

The Elven Spell Lore feat allows you to change the type of energy damage a spell causes:

When preparing that spell, you can alter the type of damage it deals to a single type of your choice. You must make this choice when preparing the spell (those who do not prepare spells cannot benefit from this aspect of the feat). You can prepare the spell multiple times, selecting the same or a different energy type for it with each preparation.

Would this be limited to the standard energy types (acid, cold, fire, lightning and sonic), or would it include things like force and negative energy damage?

[Andezzar]

A 445

Only acid, cold, fire, lightning and sonic are energy types. The others are just types.

[St Fan]

Q 446

I'm hesitating with opening a whole thread about this; tell me if this goes beyond RAW.

About the Scorn Earth ability of the Elocater class.

A) Can an Elocater even fall (for example after botching a climb check) while Scorn Earth is active?

B) The ability clearly says you can move while more than 1 foot from the ground, but what happen if you're tripped while doing so? Are you still hovering while prone, or falling to the ground?

C) What if you use a movement ability than require you to reach a (horizontal) solid surface at the end of your move (for example the "Up the Wall" psionic feat, or the Pegasus Wings soulmeld with Totem bind) in conjonction with Scorn Earth? Does it grant you said solid surface?

[Troacctid]

Q 446

I'm hesitating with opening a whole thread about this; tell me if this goes beyond RAW.

About the Scorn Earth ability of the Elocater class.

A) Can an Elocater even fall (for example after botching a climb check) while Scorn Earth is active?

Nothing in the rules implies otherwise. You fall normally. If you get the chance to move before you hit the ground, of course, you could halt your descent.

B) The ability clearly says you can move while more than 1 foot from the ground, but what happen if you're tripped while doing so? Are you still hovering while prone, or falling to the ground?

RAW is unclear. Expect table variation.

C) What if you use a movement ability than require you to reach a (horizontal) solid surface at the end of your move (for example the "Up the Wall" psionic feat, or the Pegasus Wings soulmeld with Totem bind) in conjonction with Scorn Earth? Does it grant you said solid surface?

No, but it is a moot point as such effects are redundant when you have Scorn Earth. (You can still only move 10 feet either way.)

[Grim Reader]

Q 447

What creature type features and traits are replaced by character class features when a character with a nonstandard type takes levels in a class?

Say a PC has the Dragon, or say Monstrous Humanoid type, not subtype. The PC takes a level of Barbarian. Barbarian has d12 hd, good Fort save. Monstrous Humanoid has d8 hd, good Ref and Will saves. What happens?

I've always ruled that features are overwritten by the class levels, but traits are mostly retained. Except the bit referring to things the specimen is described as wearing in its MM entry. But its occured to me that this isn't based on any kind of rule unless I've totally forgotten reading it.

[Blue Jay]

Q 447

What creature type features and traits are replaced by character class features when a character with a nonstandard type takes levels in a class?

Say a PC has the Dragon, or say Monstrous Humanoid type, not subtype. The PC takes a level of Barbarian. Barbarian has d12 hd, good Fort save. Monstrous Humanoid has d8 hd, good Ref and Will saves. What happens?

I've always ruled that features are overwritten by the class levels, but traits are mostly retained. Except the bit referring to things the specimen is described as wearing in its MM entry. But its occured to me that this isn't based on any kind of rule unless I've totally forgotten reading it.

A 447

Type features are the equivalent of class features for racial hit dice. So, treat 1 racial HD as 1 level in a class. A level of barbarian gives you barbarian features, and a level of monstrous humanoid gives you monstrous humanoid features. You don't get monstrous humanoid features for a level of barbarian (even if you're a monstrous humanoid), and you don't get barbarian features for a level of monstrous humanoid (even if you're a barbarian).

[El'the Ellie]

Q 448a

Can an Ultimate Magus' Augmented Casting ability be used to spontaneously apply a metamagic feat to a prepared caster's spell, or does the prepared caster need to expend a spell slot at the time of preparing the spell to be Augmented?

Q 448b

How does this ability affect the casting time of the spell?

Q 448c

Does this ability raise the level of the spell?

Q 448d

Can a spell affected by Augmented Casting be further enhanced using a metamagic rod?

[Tamior]

Q 449a

Do spells/powers with [ concentration ] duration force you to take a concentration check if something that normally forces you to take concentration check happens on ENEMY turn?

Let's say a spell has a [ concentration ] duration and you are diligently using a standard action every turn to maintain said concentration.
Now, let's say a dog charges you and bites you.
RAW seems to imply that since technically this damage wasn't received "during the action" of concentrating on the spell (that would be your standard action during YOUR turn), you don't need to take a concentration check to maintain that spell.
Is that correct?


Q 449b
Is the above is correct, what would be a realistic way for the said dog (let's keep it simple) to FORCE someone to make a concentration check to maintain concentration on a spell with [ concentration ] duration? Simply readying an action seems to be foiled pretty easily by taking a 5' step before concentrating.

[Troacctid]

Q 449a

Do spells/powers with [ concentration ] duration force you to take a concentration check if something that normally forces you to take concentration check happens on ENEMY turn?

Let's say a spell has a [ concentration ] duration and you are diligently using a standard action every turn to maintain said concentration.
Now, let's say a dog charges you and bites you.
RAW seems to imply that since technically this damage wasn't received "during the action" of concentrating on the spell (that would be your standard action during YOUR turn), you don't need to take a concentration check to maintain that spell.
Is that correct?

No. You are considered to be concentrating on an active spell for the entire duration of the spell. If you cease concentration at any time, the spell immediately ends.