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2018-06-07, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
People of Central Asia who put up with space debris constantly falling out of the sky, and even make their living out of the scrap of fallen rockets.
How is this allowed?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cr.../#.Wxn1QDQvzIW
How is this a thing?
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2018-06-07, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- Location
- Calgary, AB
- Gender
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2018-06-08, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
Well, the reason the Russians did it originally is because their spaceport is located in Baikonur in Central Asia.
While rockets launched from NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida are able to drop their boosters relatively harmlessly into the Atlantic ocean, Baikonur is about as as far from the ocean as it is possible to get. That means the discarded stages of Russian rockets tumble back down on dry land.
Great movie on the subject .
Putting the base in Central Asia means several hours of warning from the time we penetrated their airspace to actual time on target -- more than enough time to volley off everything they had.
That's why they did it. No doubt there has been some negotiations between the successor states as to allow Russia to continue operating the spaceport, which means Central Asian government officials are being paid off.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2018-06-08 at 10:50 AM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2018-06-08, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
- Location
- Tulips Cheese & Rock&Roll
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Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
The alternative is dropping them into the ocean.
Let's approach it as a risk-reward analysis. The population density of the Netherlands is almost 500 people/km^2. If they'd aim their crashing rockets there most of them probably wouldn't hit a person, it's not that densely populated, but after a few tries they would hit some kind of building, maybe a cow, and eventually you'd expect to hit some kind of populated neighborhood. That's kind of a problem. On the plus side there's this metal you can scavenge and sell. If a spacecraft lands near you you only have to share it with a few hundred to a few thousand other people who also live sort of near. If the government claims them and distributes the profits it might be even less worth it. So it's not a good deal. The region in the article has a population density of 2.23 /km^2, over 200 times less than in the Netherlands. So the odds of hitting something important is much smaller, and there's maybe a few dozen people with any sort of salvage claim. That might honestly be worth it. The chance of any individual house getting hit is about the same, there's just a lot less houses which lowers the total hit chance, but the total profit is the same in both examples, so the profit per person is much higher in Altai.The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2018-06-08, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
This sounds like a premise to use as the beginning of a sci-fi adventure.
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2018-06-09, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
- Location
- Singapore
- Gender
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
At least it's no longer the era of the USSR.
Because back then, in Soviet Russia's space graveyard, fallen spacecraft scavenged locals for profit.
SpoilerI am a: Chaotic Good Human Bard(14th Level)
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2018-06-09, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
It isn't that simple. You mostly want to to fire rockets due East, plus whatever angle needed due to your latitude. There's also the issue of polar orbits, where you really want to fire due South (North technically works, but is avoided as that looks exactly like an ICBM on other country's RADAR).
So you want to fire from the East coast, with a clear shot both Northeast and South. You also want to launch as far South as you can (this is mostly critical in geocentric orbits that want to go around the Equator), fixing the inclination of a satellite is *expensive*.
Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk might have worked: it is in Russia, it is on the right coast, and appears to have the right available lines clear. It might not be as far South as Baikonur (it looks about even), since Russia doesn't launch over China it can probably launch into lower altitudes. At the time it was established, the USSR was probably far happier with the locals scavenging parts than the US Navy.
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2018-06-12, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
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What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition.
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2018-06-12, 02:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- UTC -6
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
Additionally, a more southern position makes your options for orbital parameters a lot easier--the US didn't construct its main orbital launch facility on the coast of Florida just for the balmy weather. Without making expensive adjustments to the vehicle's flight path, the orbit of a terrestrially-launched spacecraft will always pass over the launch site's latitude, and launching eastward lets the rocket work with the Earth's rotation to achieve orbit rather than against it. You could sequester a launch facility somewhere in Siberia, but you'd have to be content with your spacecraft only making near-polar orbits.
The USSR couldn't easily launch into the Pacific because their coastline was too close to Japan--launches from there would have been too easy for the US (and Japan) to spy on, and too likely to set off an international incident with each test launch.Last edited by Mando Knight; 2018-06-12 at 02:55 AM.
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2018-06-12, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
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2018-06-12, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
Hawaii is much further south than KSC, and gives you plenty of places that can launch in all direction (the US needs Vandenburg in California to launch South for polar orbits). Unfortunately, while Hawaii may have had a congressional delegation by the time launch locations were established, they had almost no seniority and couldn't bring home the pork. Galveston, Texas would presumably also make a great launch site, presumably that is why mission control is located in nearby Houston as a concession. I think Spacex is planing on building a launch site "nearby", possibly Brownsville.
I'm guessing that secrecy was the prime reason the Soviets chose Baikonur, they even named it after a place something like 100 miles away to throw off the CIA/NSA (as far as the rest of the world is concerned the launch area is now "Baikonur" and the not-so-nearby town will have to deal with it). Note that any "southernly" advantage is moot: as long as the Russians won't launch over China, they are forced into launches with attitudes no lower than if they launched from the tip of China they are avoiding (not that I really think 1950s USSR had any concerns about launching over China, that has to be a modern change).
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2018-06-12, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
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2018-06-12, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- UTC -6
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
Hawaii is also more than 2000 miles away from the mainland--Honolulu is farther from Los Angeles than LA is from New York City. Puerto Rico is closer and at a similar latitude, but the immense infrastructure costs of a permanent multi-use launch facility put a fair premium on something that you can easily ship to, and it's much faster and cheaper to ship rocket components a thousand miles by rail than two thousand by sea (plus another thousand by rail if the components are built inland somewhere like Ohio or Missouri).
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2018-06-13, 12:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
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- Singapore
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2018-06-13, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: In Russia's space graveyard, locals scavenge fallen spacecraft for profit
I'm fairly sure that Spacex's next generation rocket will be built in LA and travel to the launch site (presumably Florida, at least at first. Possibly later in Texas) through the Panama Canal. I'd be shocked if Apollo craft didn't do the same.
Of course, the earlier decisions were probably based on Mercury-class rockets, which could be transported by rail and probably truck.