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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    That's kind of like saying "This rich man won't be angry that I just stole his car because he has plenty of money to buy another one!". While I agree that the current plotline with the Oafans classing the ships the Toughs took as "theft" is cobblers, it's not because "it was only a small proportion of their fleet, they can afford to do without them".
    I agree. It is understandable the Oafans are angry at theft.

    Not that it makes this storyline good for other reasons.
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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
    Alternatively, it's comparable to the U.S. Navy sending out 1-3 modern carrier battle groups to reclaim 3 dinghys off WWII aircraft carrier that had been left floating in the Pacific for the last 80 years.
    Not really, because the missing ships are just as capable as the ships that are searching for them, so the carrier group/dinghy comparison doesn't work. Maybe a carrier group sent to retrieve some motor torpedo boats?

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Good grief, are they trying to send the UNS some sort of message, or are they really that obsessive about having all their stuff?

  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    Good grief, are they trying to send the UNS some sort of message, or are they really that obsessive about having all their stuff?
    It's official, the old Oafans are ridiculous.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    I guess they want to broadcast: "Do not offend us for any reason. If you dare to so much as touch our stuff, we will end you."?

    Even if the comic does manage to justify all this, I kind of wonder why it's emphasizing it so much.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    It's official, the old Oafans are ridiculous.
    Yeah, they just sent 15,000+ ships at who knows what cost to retrieve *one* vessel. These guys are lunatics.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Yeah, they just sent 15,000+ ships at who knows what cost to retrieve *one* vessel. These guys are lunatics.
    Teraporting is pretty cheap, I'd say. At some point in the distant comics past (in the first book) it was mentioned that the process consumes some matter; but I think modern ships have this fixed. And energy is pretty cheap, even the energy of 15000 warships...
    One Oafan warship however is composed entirely of PTU hulls, which are not cheap. It could well be that the energy bill of a billion terraports still comes cheaper than one new ship hull...
    (But I'd still guess, it's the Toughs in person they are really after. For whatever reason.)
    Last edited by Onyavar; 2018-09-21 at 06:03 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    This whole "but it never belonged to them" thing is also ridiculous.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    This whole "but it never belonged to them" thing is also ridiculous.
    From the Oafan perspective, it's not. "Our stuff, not yours."

    From everyone elses', though, it is a bit. At least, it should be.
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  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    As I said in the reddit thread for today's strip...

    I really, really do not understand why we've not seen a single objection in-comic to the notion that the Toughs "stole" something. All the characters have so far just made sad faces and gone along with the assertion that the Toughs are completely in the wrong here and have a massive debt.


    The old Oafans did their best to make everyone think they were dead and gone.


    Then the AI in charge of the place made itself forget them over and over, and went crazy from loneliness and memory edits, and made the place they were hiding look even more abandoned and derelict.


    Then the "resurrected" Oafans and their benefactors (the horse-looking many-limbed dudes whose name I can't remember right now) told everyone that the place belonged to them, and they were telling the truth as far as they knew it. Because, again, the old Oafans did their damnedest to make themselves look extinct and gone.


    Legally, if you fake your own death, don't leave a will, and then a probate court gives your stuff to whoever they determine is your next of kin, and then they sell it off... can you come back 20 years later and claim that the people who bought it actually stole it from you and are in debt to you for all that stuff?


    Nevermind millennia instead of decades in the situation in the comic.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I really, really do not understand why we've not seen a single objection in-comic to the notion that the Toughs "stole" something.
    And that is very, very obvious. This seems to bother you almost on a personal level. Would it help if we affirmed that we notice it too? Or that, barring information we aren't privy to, it doesn't make sense (certainly that no one is voicing that position, regardless of the overall legal end-determination).


    What I don't get is--where were all these ships the reawakened Oafans are now flying? I mean, we know where--the modern Oafans had them, but they weren't treated as this immense horde-like threat at the time. Why are there now so many they can brute-force search the galaxy for running-silent ships and make even Petey feel unsafe and so on? Why didn't people treat them as this great big potential threat before? Why did the Toughs sell the UNS a bunch of ships for a battleplate if there was all this? Previously it was made to look much more like the Oafans had crazy ability to make PTUs, but not really anything else anyone else wanted. Now they are the 2nd or 3rd (depending on whether they outclass the whole UNS navy, or just a single new silently-running super-battleplate) largest navy in the galaxy. Why this change, and more importantly how this change?

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I really, really do not understand why we've not seen a single objection in-comic to the notion that the Toughs "stole" something. All the characters have so far just made sad faces and gone along with the assertion that the Toughs are completely in the wrong here and have a massive debt.
    I guess Howard Taylor has a different perspective on ethics and property law than we do?

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    I guess Howard Taylor has a different perspective on ethics and property law than we do?
    Difficult to say, but the Schlock verse does, and the current scenario is consistent with what we have seen before.

    The issue everyone seems to be having is with what rule is being applied.

    The oofans say those ships are theirs. And if anyone asks "on what basis?", they answer with "15000+ long gun warships still under our control". Which solves the matter immediately.

    Might makes right in Schlockverse. There is nothing new about this.

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Difficult to say, but the Schlock verse does, and the current scenario is consistent with what we have seen before.

    The issue everyone seems to be having is with what rule is being applied.

    The oofans say those ships are theirs. And if anyone asks "on what basis?", they answer with "15000+ long gun warships still under our control". Which solves the matter immediately.

    Might makes right in Schlockverse. There is nothing new about this.

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    That's the answer now. But it wasn't when the issue was first introduced. Putzho made an unquantified comment about them having a lot of long guns but nothing definitive. And it wasn't information the Toughs were privy too. But they still never objected to being classified as thieves, etc.

    I have no problem with the 'might makes right' answer being the oofans response. I have a problem with no one is trying to defend themselves before being given that answer.

    The bigger problem for me, is as I said before, I'm both bored and annoyed. People are acting like idiots for no reason, no one is offering a reasonable defense/critique of the situation, this isn't being related back to the plot I care about in any meaningful way (at least not yet which means pacing issues), it's not funny on its own (which would help said pacing issues), and plotlines we were supposed to be invested in get wrapped up basically off-screen (e.g. Chinook most recently but the attempted civil war coup STILL sticks in my craw as a wasted opportunity). And to top it all off: if we're going to go down this rabit-hole, I'm really annoyed that the position that the Toughs did nothing/minimally anything wrong in this situation is being summarily dismissed and not even worth inclusion in the strip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    And that is very, very obvious. This seems to bother you almost on a personal level. Would it help if we affirmed that we notice it too? Or that, barring information we aren't privy to, it doesn't make sense (certainly that no one is voicing that position, regardless of the overall legal end-determination).
    See last line above. I'm can't speak for others, but I'm just expressing frustration at out of hand dismissal. It's one thing if the Toughs argue that and the oofans said, "Interesting arguement you make, let me make 15,000 explosive rebuttals." That's par for the course. Instead we get, "You're right, we're a horrible people"

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    What I don't get is--where were all these ships the reawakened Oafans are now flying? I mean, we know where--the modern Oafans had them, but they weren't treated as this immense horde-like threat at the time. Why are there now so many they can brute-force search the galaxy for running-silent ships and make even Petey feel unsafe and so on? Why didn't people treat them as this great big potential threat before? Why did the Toughs sell the UNS a bunch of ships for a battleplate if there was all this? Previously it was made to look much more like the Oafans had crazy ability to make PTUs, but not really anything else anyone else wanted. Now they are the 2nd or 3rd (depending on whether they outclass the whole UNS navy, or just a single new silently-running super-battleplate) largest navy in the galaxy. Why this change, and more importantly how this change?
    I think these are new ships. At least ones the Neo-Oofans didn't have. The Neo-Oofans had the one World-Cylinder. Mega-Structure as that one resurrected -old-oofan called it. I think we're seeing ships from all the other old-oofan mega-structures; the rest of their civilization coming out of hiding/ freedom after Putzho lets them out of their cage.
    Last edited by Thomas Cardew; 2018-09-21 at 03:18 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    I suspect that all these "new" ships are warbucked old ships that had been stasis gelled for 10's of thousands (millions?) of years, pilotted by their appropriately-grown AI's that were housed inside the computer.

    As for the claim of theft: Is it any different from "Hey, you invaders robbed our cultural landmarks for your museums, please give them back to us even though we have no military might to force it" except that now they *do* have that military might, and the title of this book is ...
    So you'll insert the horse into the Large Hadron Collider next?
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  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by keybounce View Post
    I suspect that all these "new" ships are warbucked old ships that had been stasis gelled for 10's of thousands (millions?) of years, pilotted by their appropriately-grown AI's that were housed inside the computer.

    As for the claim of theft: Is it any different from "Hey, you invaders robbed our cultural landmarks for your museums, please give them back to us even though we have no military might to force it" except that now they *do* have that military might, and the title of this book is ...
    It is, because the descendants and proclaimed heirs of those millennia-old cultural items traded them away in exchange for other things.

    If the old Oafans have a problem with someone, it should be the new Oafans.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    It is, because the descendants and proclaimed heirs of those millennia-old cultural items traded them away in exchange for other things.
    Legally, if you buy or trade stolen goods, it doesn't absolve you of responsibility just because you're not the one who actually stole them. I still don't think these goods count as "stolen" in any meaningful way, though.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by keybounce View Post
    Is it any different from "Hey, you invaders robbed our cultural landmarks for your museums, please give them back to us even though we have no military might to force it" except that now they *do* have that military might, and the title of this book is ...
    Hah, good analogy. Well, look, the pharaohs have returned, and they are Gods and will smite everyone who robbed their graves. And it doesn't matter if these items are currently in the museums of western nations or in those of modern Egypt: The archeologists are all graverobbers, and earned the curse of the pharaoh. "You thought we were dead? Fools!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    It is, because the descendants and proclaimed heirs of those millennia-old cultural items traded them away in exchange for other things.

    If the old Oafans have a problem with someone, it should be the new Oafans.
    I used the analogy before: "you rescued their butler, then searched the house. You thought they were dead and agreed with the butler to sell the silverware to the UNS and split the money" The way our justice system works, you should return the money (or the items!) to the houseowners, on account of being a fence and/or a thief. Extenuating circumstance nonwithstanding (the butler found they are not dead, and revived them, what would not have been possible without you rescuing the butler in the first place). That extenuation is still very important and the oafans would be bad people if they squeezed the Toughs dry for it. And look, they are returning the favor and just rescued the Toughs from the UNS!

    ...

    On the newest update: does anyone else also think that Ventura has been working on an important (and unauthorized) secret project that WILL be a huge problem if Ventura doesn't supervise it personally all the time, including right now?

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Legally, if you buy or trade stolen goods, it doesn't absolve you of responsibility just because you're not the one who actually stole them. I still don't think these goods count as "stolen" in any meaningful way, though.
    Not only are they not stolen, the Toughs had no reason to think they were stolen and every reason to think they weren't.

    And what really bugs me is that no one, toughs or otherwise, is even trying to argue their case or offer rebuttal / retort here.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    On the newest update: does anyone else also think that Ventura has been working on an important (and unauthorized) secret project that WILL be a huge problem if Ventura doesn't supervise it personally all the time, including right now?
    If that was the case, would the project not have gone up in smoke along with her and the rest of the ship?
    Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    If that was the case, would the project not have gone up in smoke along with her and the rest of the ship?
    Presumably her notes, up to the same point as her own mental backup, are saved. They live in a matter(excluding PTUs)-is-cheap tech level. What's been lost is whatever progress she had made since last backup, plus this regrowth time.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    If that was the case, would the project not have gone up in smoke along with her and the rest of the ship?
    https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-04-03

    Perhaps not.
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Wait how is Ennesby next of kin? My money would have been on Ventura...

  24. - Top - End - #294
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Chinook used to be Tagii, remember, who was kept locked up in Ennesby's spare helix-code for an extended period. That plus him being another AI is enough, I guess?

    Also, Ventura is currently dead, so she can't be consulted in a next-of-kin situation until she stops needing next-of-kin herself.
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    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Ventura is currently dead
    She's in some sort of Virtual Reality with the rest of the ship's complement, so she could be contacted, though Ennesby is still the better option. Will they remember the virtual reality when they are decanted?
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Judging by the last time we had this virtual reality, the clock speed in there is really slow. It's definitely faster talking to Ennesby.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Chinook used to be Tagii, remember, who was kept locked up in Ennesby's spare helix-code for an extended period. That plus him being another AI is enough, I guess?

    Also, Ventura is currently dead, so she can't be consulted in a next-of-kin situation until she stops needing next-of-kin herself.
    I remember. But given that's there's not exactly a biological equivalent to that... calling the host the parasite's next of kin? And I'd be more inclined to call one of the Tar-bots next of kin. If Ventura as programmer is 'mother' the tar-bots are siblings. Or adopted/step siblings given that she effectively mind wiped and reprogrammed them on her own...

    And Ventura's dead sure, but only mostly dead. And Petey seems to be talking to the mostlly dead Kevin just fine. Fake immortality is weird. And Venture only needs next-of-kin if she doesn't have a living will.

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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Kevin's clock is running much faster. He needs to be revived faster, because he's more important. Petey even told Kevin that Ventura and the rest would seem like statues to him if they were in the same environment.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    New comic.

    And, as expected, the Toughs are going to atone for being filthy thieves by working for the Oafans. Possibly forever.

  30. - Top - End - #300
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    Default Re: Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    New comic.

    And, as expected, the Toughs are going to atone for being filthy thieves by working for the Oafans. Possibly forever.
    I might have to stop reading for a while and then come back when I can blow through all the comics that hit that ridiculous nonsense.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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