Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

[Kornaki]

Yeah, based on the eyeballs and the talking head I'm assuming that's Schlock, but given the explosion, either Schlock is in the -wrong- galaxy or the explosion is in the wrong galaxy. Or else Schlock caused the explosion, which makes it even more idiotic for him to complain about running away from it.

This comic is usually pretty well written in my opinion but today's strip fails for me on a number of levels.

My guess is it's actually the bird alien from the appearance. I forget her name. I don't know where she's supposed to be though.

[Thomas Cardew]

My guess is it's actually the bird alien from the appearance. I forget her name. I don't know where she's supposed to be though.

Her (nick)name is Legs, and I don't think we've seen her in the latest arc yet. But I'm almost certain that's supposed to be Schlock at the Andromendan core having caused committed/caused some sabotage given that (1) there's a copy of Cindy there (2) the rope-y core of annieplants in the background for baddie manipulation (3) the similarities between the hard-suit and Schlock's one although this is a bit more rectangular than previously depicted (4) the occuptant being unhappy about missing the explosion either for the opportunity to shoot at responders or missing the cool light show. My best guess is that he just unknowingly blew up some part of the DM long gun which will make them think that Petey has some way of firing back.

[factotum]

But I'm almost certain that's supposed to be Schlock at the Andromendan core

Current strip confirms that.

[Kornaki]

Ah, it's a big tell not show scene. Why has he become so enamored with this structure the last couple years?

[geoduck]

Ah, it's a big tell not show scene. Why has he become so enamored with this structure the last couple years?

I agree, this one's particularly weird. Why not just show them doing all this first-hand?

[Rockphed]

I agree, this one's particularly weird. Why not just show them doing all this first-hand?

Because Howard has fallen into a trap where he thinks his characters look smarter if they explain why they did things. Also, he obviously wanted to bring up meatpuppet and murderfinder again.

[Gez]

I can't wait for the three weeks of tedious banter interrupted by cutaways to completely unrelated, but equally tedious, digressions, before they finally get on with it with showing what the point of all this crime scene metaficton was.

Yeah, yeah, trying to make Schlock look like a compromised dronuri so that the paanuri are fooled or something, but what's the point?

[NEO|Phyte]

The immediate point would be to hide that there is an enemy force an indeterminate distance behind enemy lines. If the beasties realize they've got pests, they'll start hunting. Less immediately, if the beasties waste time and effort trying to determine the cause of a problem that doesn't exist, that's a benefit to team baryonic.

[Max_Killjoy]

IMO, part of the problem is that Howard is ready to move on from this incarnation of the comic after all these years, and has X amount of story to get through in Y amount of time, and it's distorting the presentation from long-form "show" to short-form "tell".

[Kornaki]

IMO, part of the problem is that Howard is ready to move on from this incarnation of the comic after all these years, and has X amount of story to get through in Y amount of time, and it's distorting the presentation from long-form "show" to short-form "tell".

This started a long time ago though. He could have cut copious amounts of side plot and still gotten to the same endpoint with a better comic for it. That used to be his style; the plots were pretty straightforward here are the bad guys, here are the good guys, halfway in here's a twist. Now there's a thousand sides all vying to get the best end of comic quip in, and he has to rush through storylines just to give them all a chance.

[factotum]

This started a long time ago though.

The most glaring example being the Eina-Afa arc, where it stopped and switched to "So this happened..." mode so abruptly it felt like he'd inadvertently dropped several weeks of strips.

[Max_Killjoy]

The most glaring example being the Eina-Afa arc, where it stopped and switched to "So this happened..." mode so abruptly it felt like he'd inadvertently dropped several weeks of strips.

That's where it felt like it started, yeah... and out of the blue.

[Mechalich]

The most glaring example being the Eina-Afa arc, where it stopped and switched to "So this happened..." mode so abruptly it felt like he'd inadvertently dropped several weeks of strips.

That arc was also where outcomes became a thing that would be determined more and more by AIs, with humans completely unable to even think fast enough to catch up, where previously this had been limited to Petey (who was deliberately absented from the story for a time for partly this reason). This is essentially the Culture Universe problem - the principle actors in the story are beings who think on a level that is incomprehensible to humans, making it impossible to show their decision making process in an effective way and reducing the human (and human-like alien) characters to bystanders in what is ostensibly their own story. The most blatant example in Schlock Mercenary so far was Cindy's recent destruction of the Pa'anuri, which the entire crew could do nothing but watch happen. This is one of the great challenges of modern speculative science fiction, the conversion of characters into something that bears little resemblance to present day human understanding of how life works. It's not even a purely AI thing, but includes concepts like forking and merging as Thurl has recently done.

Schlock Mercenary has gradually moved away from well, schlock, and towards a more expansionist speculative science fiction space opera (with a strong and continually expanding resemblance to the Culture Universe from Book 13 onward) that has gradually rendered certain character roles largely superfluous. For example, the idea of a flesh-and-blood human captaining a starship and actually making any real time decisions - which is pretty much the core of Tagon's function as a character - seems kind of ridiculous at the current state. The Oafa, notably, don't appear to have that role at all in their fleets.

This started a long time ago though. He could have cut copious amounts of side plot and still gotten to the same endpoint with a better comic for it. That used to be his style; the plots were pretty straightforward here are the bad guys, here are the good guys, halfway in here's a twist. Now there's a thousand sides all vying to get the best end of comic quip in, and he has to rush through storylines just to give them all a chance.

This is partly a consequence of just doing a 'giant inter-galactic war' plot at all. It's inherently huge and demands the presence of a lot of characters with high levels of authority even though they may not be characters anyone, whether author or audience, is actually interested in. My sense is that Howard approaches the entire 'Baryon Wars' conflict half-heartedly at best, he certainly delayed long enough in getting to it, but feels obligated to finish what he started. That's partly the nature of a serial production of this sort of length. There's no backsies.

[Kornaki]

This is partly a consequence of just doing a 'giant inter-galactic war' plot at all. It's inherently huge and demands the presence of a lot of characters with high levels of authority even though they may not be characters anyone, whether author or audience, is actually interested in. My sense is that Howard approaches the entire 'Baryon Wars' conflict half-heartedly at best, he certainly delayed long enough in getting to it, but feels obligated to finish what he started. That's partly the nature of a serial production of this sort of length. There's no backsies.

I don't buy this. When he did the war against the gatekeepers he didn't have his problem, and that was actually a much bigger theater than what we have now. For example despite this being intergalactic we have basically not at all seen anything from the pa'anuri side, and most of the people that are supposed to be on the side of the milky way really aren't contributing much. The oafans haven't actually done anything in this war yet I think? The all Star people also haven't done much. The espees... They have a crew member in Andromeda I guess? But as you pointed out the crew isn't doing anything anymore so that's another arc that could have been cut.

The problem isn't that there's an intergactic war on, the problem is there's a bunch of **** taking place that ISN'T an intergalactic war.

[Wayson]

I don't buy this. When he did the war against the gatekeepers he didn't have his problem, and that was actually a much bigger theater than what we have now.

The current war is taking place in both the Milky Way and Andromeda. The Gatekeeper war was only in select parts of the Milky Way.

For example despite this being intergalactic we have basically not at all seen anything from the pa'anuri side

1) ... yet, and 2) we have seen a little bit, mostly conversations between the DMEs. We've seen them discuss the 'scary barys', we saw Petey manipulating them by pretending to be predictable, and we saw them talk about lining up their shot on LOTA. I imagine we'll see more as the story progresses; likely from Schlock's end of things.

most of the people that are supposed to be on the side of the milky way really aren't contributing much.

We've seen the UNS, the Uniocs, the Oafans, and Petey all engaging in a fairly massive battle inside the Unioc home system. The thing to remember is a lot of cultures/species aren't really tooled up to fight the DMEs. You need teraport-derived weapons to do anything. So unless you expect to be fighting the DMEs, you aren't going to have a fleet that's able to fight the DMEs. Frankly it's surprising that the Uniocs were able to be useful at all, but the three biggest known powers in the Milky Way have already engaged and are taking significant losses in doing so.

The all Star people also haven't done much.

Yeah, but that's.... that's kind of their thing. They have their agents in play out there, namely Putzho but there could be others for all we know. They're not interested in engaging with the rest of the galaxy because the last time they did so, they had to mind-rape most of the galactic population to preempt genocide.

The problem isn't that there's an intergactic war on, the problem is there's a bunch of **** taking place that ISN'T an intergalactic war.

Such as? Kaff Tagon is in Andromeda fighting for his life while trying to scavenge supplies, Karl Tagon is leading a hot drop into an active Pa'anuri warship, and Petey is working the meta-strategy while dealing with short-term problems like the Unioc system. Schlock is giving us a micro perspective but that could evolve into a deeper look at Pa'anuri goals.

[lord_khaine]

That arc was also where outcomes became a thing that would be determined more and more by AIs, with humans completely unable to even think fast enough to catch up, where previously this had been limited to Petey (who was deliberately absented from the story for a time for partly this reason). This is essentially the Culture Universe problem - the principle actors in the story are beings who think on a level that is incomprehensible to humans, making it impossible to show their decision making process in an effective way and reducing the human (and human-like alien) characters to bystanders in what is ostensibly their own story. The most blatant example in Schlock Mercenary so far was Cindy's recent destruction of the Pa'anuri, which the entire crew could do nothing but watch happen. This is one of the great challenges of modern speculative science fiction, the conversion of characters into something that bears little resemblance to present day human understanding of how life works. It's not even a purely AI thing, but includes concepts like forking and merging as Thurl has recently done.

Schlock Mercenary has gradually moved away from well, schlock, and towards a more expansionist speculative science fiction space opera (with a strong and continually expanding resemblance to the Culture Universe from Book 13 onward) that has gradually rendered certain character roles largely superfluous. For example, the idea of a flesh-and-blood human captaining a starship and actually making any real time decisions - which is pretty much the core of Tagon's function as a character - seems kind of ridiculous at the current state. The Oafa, notably, don't appear to have that role at all in their fleets.

Really is an interesting point. And yeah i think i agree. The story has suffered a bit from the introduction of increasingly more potent AI's.
And it is a little sad to see the agency shift away from the human/natural protagonists like that.

Though at the same time. The shift has also been interesting. And the ideas/evolution of technology quite interesting.
I like how far Howards imagination has reached. As such going all the way up towards a technological apothesis where the most advanced civilisations eventually leave the galaxy.
And at the same time then give us a reason for why they are not around any longer.

But it will likely become the last book in schlocks story? I dont know if Howard has directly announced as much yet.
All the same it seems unlikely to continue after the Panuri threat has been ended. I kinda hope he tries his hands on a fantasy comic next.

[Narkis]

I don't really mind the shift to AI agency. Our protagonists do have a small role to play even in a grander conflict. What I mind is the shift in storytelling away from SHOWING us the cool action to TELLING us about the cool action that happened off-panel. Sclock's nuke is only the most recent example in a long series of similar resolutions, and pretty much all of them would have worked better if we actually saw them happen even if nothing at all changed in the events themselves.

[Kornaki]

The current war is taking place in both the Milky Way and Andromeda. The Gatekeeper war was only in select parts of the Milky Way.

The gatekeeper war had an alliance between all these different systems and species to fight the gatekeepers, and we got some interesting stuff about how Breya was struggling to keep the whole thing together, without Howard resorting to a year long plotline introducing each of those entities. The literal list of actors in this war isn't actually bigger, he's just giving more screentime to the randos.

We've seen the UNS, the Uniocs, the Oafans, and Petey all engaging in a fairly massive battle inside the Unioc home system. The thing to remember is a lot of cultures/species aren't really tooled up to fight the DMEs. You need teraport-derived weapons to do anything. So unless you expect to be fighting the DMEs, you aren't going to have a fleet that's able to fight the DMEs. Frankly it's surprising that the Uniocs were able to be useful at all, but the three biggest known powers in the Milky Way have already engaged and are taking significant losses in doing so.

My point is if Howard wanted to wrap things up fast, he should have just cut the oafans from the comic entirely and did this whole arc without them. They don't add anything amazing, and he could spend the time making the rest of the comic better.

Yeah, but that's.... that's kind of their thing. They have their agents in play out there, namely Putzho but there could be others for all we know. They're not interested in engaging with the rest of the galaxy because the last time they did so, they had to mind-rape most of the galactic population to preempt genocide.

So why did he included them if he wants to end the comic so bad? Cut them entirely, put more focus on the rest of the stuff, and the whole comic is probably better.

[Rockphed]

So why did he included them if he wants to end the comic so bad? Cut them entirely, put more focus on the rest of the stuff, and the whole comic is probably better.

For the same reason George Martin is having problems bringing his works to any sort of conclusion: he thinks he is a better writer than he actually is. I don't think Howard's ego is quite as inflated as mr Martin's, but that is simply a difference of scope, not of kind.

[JavaScribe]

Oh, yeah, the suicidal Oafan. I almost forgot that was a plot thread.

[Mechalich]

So why did he included them if he wants to end the comic so bad? Cut them entirely, put more focus on the rest of the stuff, and the whole comic is probably better.

The comic didn't actually begin to move towards 'big final war' status until the Pa'anuri started firing their long gun - which first happened on Nov 19, 2017. Assuming some level of lead time, and the general fact that the main plot of 'Mandatory Failure' is totally disconnected from those events, this suggests that Howard made the decision to begin a serious move towards a conclusion some time during 2017.

For the same reason George Martin is having problems bringing his works to any sort of conclusion: he thinks he is a better writer than he actually is. I don't think Howard's ego is quite as inflated as mr Martin's, but that is simply a difference of scope, not of kind.

Well, Schlock Mercenary is a comedy serial, I don't think any sort of epic conclusion was ever in the initial plan nor is it really necessary that there could ever be one. The real question is whether the comic conitnues to be funny on the way to the conclusion. However, I do think the comic is influenced, and rather heavily at that, by Howard's insistence on publishing every single day no matter what. That has to be immensely burdensome both from a production perspective and from a writing perspective. As the comic's become more sprawling and complex I think he's struggled to juggle these many plotlines at the required speed, which has led to some shortcuts.

[Floogal]

I think what hampers the comic the most is trying to end every daily strip with a joke. Given how short most non-Sunday strips are, this means around half of all the panels are spent setting up & executing wisecracks.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah. I could easily live with less jokes in return for more story.

[Thomas Cardew]

I think what hampers the comic the most is trying to end every daily strip with a joke. Given how short most non-Sunday strips are, this means around half of all the panels are spent setting up & executing wisecracks.

Yeah. I could easily live with less jokes in return for more story.

Today's strip seems the perfect example of this given that the joke is essentially "Haha you don't know what's going on! (Ignore the fact that this is my fault because I haven't shown or told you anything.)"

But I don't think it has to be this way. I'd hold up the "Sharp end of the stick" as a great series were pretty much every strip had a joke but still moved the story forward, Meta jokes with the cartoonists aside. Or at least required no little to no setup.

[HandofShadows]

She doesn't seem to be happy about being able to do that still.

[Gez]

Yeah. I could easily live with less jokes in return for more story.

Likewise, especially since I can't remember the last time I found a Schlock joke funny.

[Thomas Cardew]

So I just noticed the latest blog post. Quoting the relevant bit.

...The arc began when Schlock enlisted with Tagon’s Toughs in the strip dated June 12, 2000. That means it’s basically everything that has appeared on this site so far. It will end with closure, resolution, satisfaction, and a big, all-caps “THE END.”

I’ve been saying this for a while now, and every time I say it somebody pops up and says “wait, what?” So I’m saying it again, but this time around there’s an air of urgency.

You probably have questions. I shall attempt to FAQ you some answers.

Q: When will it end exactly?
A: I’m not telling. Before October, though. ...

So in 300 ish pages we're going to have 'closure', 'resolution', and 'satisfaction'. Also given that current book started about 6 months ago we're slightly over 1/3 of the way through the end of the story. Mark me down as 'skeptical'. Especially given the current glacial pace and focus on threads I don't care about.

Or alternatively: ' You keep saying that... I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.'

[Douglas]

She doesn't seem to be happy about being able to do that still.

She requested that she not be rebooted until they're willing to free her. She expected that they would only be willing to do that after editing her to prevent the behaviors they're concerned about. What she just did was one of those behaviors, or at least the appearance of it, so the fact that she can do it tells her that they did not do such editing. The lack of editing gives her reason to believe that they're still not willing to free her.

In short, because she can still do worrisome things she expects that she's still untrusted and captive, and that is what she's unhappy about.

She should be much happier once they explain that just scanning her, plus discovering the root cause of her corruption in Iafa's old hardware, was enough, and that they do now trust her.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Or worse, she dislikes parts of her own personality, and she was hoping that she could get others to fix it, but now she might have to learn to love herself while also living with the remaining trust issues others have towards her.

[Max_Killjoy]

"...should have been on our list of assets".

I think I detect a Princess Bride reference.