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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Nov 2013

    Default Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Hey all, I am building an army based on Psionic npc's.

    Aegis came up as possibly the best front line fighter so I want to build one out. All sources are welcome.

    I found this handbook Armor of the Mind: The Aegis (SRD) by Novawurmson and am starting with that. Feel free to suggest others for comparison.

    We will be starting with a dwarf as a starter race for RP purposes, there doesnt seem to be ALOT of differences in my mind.

    I believe we should go the full path of Harness Power Stones/ Repository and I have a plan to feed them new power stones as needed.

    I plan on going Initiators Soul for maneuvers and was thinking of going Silver Crane and Radiant for the self/collective healing but extra damage would work too. They will be working in a group with Zealot Squad leader.

    I was thinking two types past that:
    Ranged: Going all Energy Blast, Empowered Blast, Improved Ranged Attack, and Improved Energy blast, Invisibility and mobility focused - What feats would best support this role?
    Grappler: Aberrant (Archetype) - Again what feats would best support this design?
    OR should I just go a traditional melle type build?

    Add in swim/water breathing for underwater action.

    Any thoughts or suggestions?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    One of our concerns with both Aegis and AC's are the size.

    We will have a fair amount of work in the Underdark/underground and having a large or huge construct as a primary shock troop or even a dwarf in the aegis suit might have trouble manuerving. Any size related abilities work on increasing size, not decreasing it.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Castilonium's Avatar

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    Jun 2013

    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Looks like Novawurmson's guide hasn't updated to include Akashic stuff or Radiant Dawn. For 1 CP, you can get a Daevic veil, and with a few Radiant Dawn disciplines known, you get some extra essence. Good Daevic veils to look at are Crimson Totem, which summons a greatclub that uses constitution for attack and damage; Crusader's Shield, which lets you create a mini wall of force as a move action; Stare of the Ghaele, which gives you a 30 foot gaze attack to make enemies shaken for 1d6+1 rounds; and Elís Utterdark Shield, which turns your shield bash attacks into amazing crowd control.

    If you want to be a ranged blaster, look at the Host of Heroes archetype and its Archmage suit. It focuses on using Energy Blast as a weapon you can full attack with, gives you mirror images for defense, and lets you cast a few Wizard spells.

    If you want to be the most effective frontliner, Aberrant with multiple natural attacks is the best because it gives you tentacles that have Grab. Grappled enemies have trouble fighting back. However, if you're going to use a lot of natural attacks, I don't recommend using Initiator's Soul for strike maneuvers. They usually only let you make a single attack instead of a full attack. With Radiant Dawn, you especially need to have your initiation modifier be as high as possible for maximum healing, and intelligence honestly isn't super important for Aegii. Also, a Zealot's collective doesn't automatically redistribute healing like a Vitalist's does.

    Minor Metamorphosis will be a good power for your power stone repository. If you run into tight quarters in the Underdark, use it to shrink instead of grow.
    Last edited by Castilonium; 2018-06-12 at 06:12 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Thanks!

    The thought for the Silver Crane and Radiant was self healing, plus some added group healing to reinforce the Zealots own Silver/Radiant maneuvers. I figured if everyone is able to self heal and can from time to time group heal, thats a good thing vs forcing a Vitalist in the already too small collective.

    I just got into the Akashic stuff but found the Radiant Sun stuff online. Buying Host of Heroes now. :)

    I like the idea of a Power Stones with Metamorphosis...good all around buffs going on there.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by kalos72 View Post
    Any thoughts or suggestions?
    Well, I think you're coming at this from a very different angle than I am, so rather than chip in, I'll ask:

    1) What do you mean by army?
    2) What kind of engagements are they fighting in, and against whom?
    3) Is this mass battle type stuff, or more normal small scale D&D fights?
    4) What's their budget look like?
    5) What kind of level range is this army supposed to have?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Army as in hundreds of Aegis forming the main force of a kingdoms army.

    We envision 3 areas, open field, underground and possibly aquatic. I am not sure if its Battlesystem or just larger mini-fights yet, depends on how complicated this will get to track.

    Budget is open, the PC';s are epic level and money/magic really isn't an issue. The army going psionic is RP more then anything. Previously they had worked up dwarven crusaders, elven rangers as the primary force but then thought about making the whole kingdom more PSI friendly.

    Previous troops were built off of 3 dead NPC's the group played with for years. We make extensive use of an "Improved Ice Assassin' type power and "Improved Simulacrum" powers. Something level wise around 10...

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Wow. Okay, Very different from my thoughts. When I hear army in D&D I usually think 1st to 3rd level. 10th is a whole 'nother ball game.

    Still capping out the Power stone line at that level is costing 7 of his 10 CP and gives him an effective manifester level of 7th with 4 powers (2 1st level, 2 nd) on tap and up to 6 more stones in the repository. However he only has 20 PP per day (plus bonuses) and still needs the int to manifest his powers. I don't think most of the squad should be set up that way, generically speaking, although giving the brightest guy in each squad a set of stones from a carefully selected list might be good.

    If you want more manifesting, sprinkling Psi Warriors into the ranks might work better, more powers known, of higher levels, and more PP as well.

    As far as operating underground, an Aegis has access to burrow and tremor sense. Turn large, grow extra arms (or tentacles if aberrant), and take pull and go full graboid. Attack from under dirt, grapple, pull into your square, next round break grapple and move away leaving them entombed. Rinse, repeat. (I'm not entirely sure that works, but it's worth looking up.)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    I thought Power Stones dont require your PP to use? Kinda like a scroll...

    For the burrow, my concern there is the limitations, cannot burrow through rock. I was thinking about making a new +3 customization like Improved Burrow or something that addresses that and maybe increase movement speed to 2/3?

    For added firepower, why not add a small psion passenger to the Aegis?
    Last edited by kalos72; 2018-06-12 at 06:56 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by kalos72 View Post
    I thought Power Stones dont require your PP to use? Kinda like a scroll...
    True. Basic powerstone functionality is exactly like a scroll and for that use the Aegis gets to make a UMD check with +(number of power stones in repository) to the UMD check.

    The Harness powerstone line however basically takes the scroll and staples it to your forehead as a power known, letting you use it as often as you want without rolling (and with improved IL as you go up the line), but you do need to pay the PP for it. Which can be pretty damned handy for something like Minor Metamorphosis.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Could the metaconcert idea be used for a group of Aegis as well?


    Stick several Constructors and a spell-to-power erudite in metaconcert

    Surround by telekinetic sphere and affinity field.

    Use schism to funnel power points to the metaconcert entity using bestow power.

    Use Burrowing Power to manifest astral construct through the sphere.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Still working on this if you have any suggestions?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Is there anyway to increase CP or PP even here?

    I imagine a slotless "Stone of +5 CP" is possible?

    Also, what about magic items? It says no type of armor would benefit he Aegis Juggernaut but I assume things like boots or cloaks, wands, slotless items, etc could still be used and benefit the Aegis?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    An Aegis can use armour, his suit works just fine with it in Astral Skin mode.

    To the best of my knowledge an Aegis suit works just fine with any and all magic items, with the exception of other suits of armour if you are in Astral Armour or Astral Juggernaut modes. (Probably some of the Path of Heros ones as well, I'm not up on that.)

    Outside of that there is a Cystal Spaulders item that give an enhancement bonus and extra CP to an aegis. Going by the pricing on that, an extra CP item should probably be pretty pricey.

    Cognizance crystals are good for PP, and apparently some ioun stones as well.

    Also remember that an Aegis has UMD on his skill list and can use the Unlock Psionics customization for a +2/4 and can use Harness Shard for up to a +10 (!) for a single pp, making them pretty good at it too.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    So do you agree that "Armor" here really only means a chest piece versus shoulder or hands and the like?

    What about the idea of using MetaConcert to feed the Aegis some PP?

  15. - Top - End - #15
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by kalos72 View Post
    So do you agree that "Armor" here really only means a chest piece versus shoulder or hands and the like?

    What about the idea of using MetaConcert to feed the Aegis some PP?
    I assume it's full body coverage, but it doesn't stop you from wearing or using other items, just like you can still use magic rings while in full plate. You can even wear other armour, it just stops providing a benefit while the suit is in armour or juggernaut mode.

    And sure, that would work, although it's not terribly efficient. What do you think they need it for?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    So I am at work and dont have access right now but...

    I took the line about armor bonuses not helping while in Juggernaut mode to imply that any magical benefits the armor would normally imbue, where not active when in Juggernaut form. So a Armor of +1 of Blurring would provide no benefit to the wearer while in Juggernaut form.

    Is that just the chest piece or ANY type of clothing, etc worn by the PC?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    AFAIK your interpretation is correct. Magical armour provides no benefit at all if the astral suit is in armour or juggernaut mode (but works fine in Skin mode.)

    Other than that normal D&D rules apply. If it doesn't say it interferes, it doesn't. Cloaks, rings, boots, gloves, helmets, etc all work just fine, exactly like they do if you're wearing any other suit of armour.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Andor13 View Post
    I assume it's full body coverage, but it doesn't stop you from wearing or using other items, just like you can still use magic rings while in full plate. You can even wear other armour, it just stops providing a benefit while the suit is in armour or juggernaut mode.

    And sure, that would work, although it's not terribly efficient. What do you think they need it for?
    Your point earlier about using 7 out of 10 CP for the full Harness line and then only having 20PP for the use of those powers. If he was fed more CP and PP it would expand his reserves and make that line more useful I would think.

    The other line is just to make them melle focused but I was hoping for more there. A ranged variant well the goal...

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    Aegii are ok at ranged. Granted they have a lot more melee oriented abilities, but:

    First they are a full BAB martial class with full martial weapons skill, so they can pick up and use anything you want to give them. And they have native flight so...

    At it's most basic 1 CP cost the suit can generate a ranged attack that's 1d8 x2 with a 30' range increment. That's better than a revolver, but not much by 10th level.
    2 more points gives you Improved Ranged attack which is 3d8 x2 at 10th level, technically that's as powerful as a ballista you can full attack with, but still not that impressive.
    2 more points can turn it into an energy attack which deals xd6 instead of xd8 and is a standard action, so no full attacking, but it now a ranged touch attack. (note that you can switch back and forth.)
    1 more point into Empowered Blast let's you pour PP straight into the energy blast at 1PP = +1d6 capped by class level.

    So in theory that's 13d6 of the energy of your choice as a ranged touch attack, not too shabby, but it's eating half your PP to do it. (Ignoring bonus PP.)

    OTOH you also have access to up to 4th level maneuvers and stances. 2 points into Initiators Soul lets you grab Elemental Flux Stance for 2d6 Energy damage stacked onto any attack you make, plus secondary benefits including DR 5/Adamantine or Fast Healing 1.

    So for 5 of your 10 CP you can take Ranged and Improved Ranged Attack and Initiators soul netting you a 3d8+2d6 ranged weapon (20.5 avg damage, ignoring crits) you can full attack with and that's still not touching the 3 maneuvers you also got with those points, and it's also ignoring items and feats.

    Or issue them longbows of whatever magic flavor you like, keep the 3 CP and still stack on the +2d6 from Elemental Flux Stance.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Aegis Build Help - Front Line Fighter

    As tied back to my Psionic Army line...

    What if the Aegis were in an Affinity Field and being fed 32PP per round? Or could at LEAST fall back to their "group" and get a refresh on PP?

    The Full Harness Line would be back on the table i think too...

    Would throwing a dip into Psion help here since they have ALOT more PP reserve to play with.

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