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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    sigh CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    The grand finale of Curse of Strahd takes place in Castle Ravenloft, the gigantic castle of Strahd that is full of traps and monsters.

    The 5e rules suggest 2-3 shorts rest during an adventuring day. However, is this guideline at all reasonable when searching Castle Ravenloft?

    Strahd himself, so long that he takes the PCs seriously, would not allow them to get any rest in the castle. He is a powerful spellcaster who can summons a number of creatures at will and can move through walls and floors of his castle, so he would have no difficulty tracking the party and harassing them before they get a short rest.

    Hence it seem like the 2 short rests per day recommendation cannot be readily applied here without Strahd acting as an idiot. That's problematic, because he is a genius with 20 intelligence.

    Without short rests, both the Monk and the Warlock are significantly weakened in what is the final stretch of the campaign. How is that fair?
    Last edited by Merudo; 2018-06-13 at 04:32 AM.

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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Strahd is an idiot.

    Let me rephrase that. Strahd is proud, overconfident, brash. He believes up to the last moment that these mortal insects cannot actually put paid to him.

    Why he is as good as a god of Ravenloft!

    MUA HA HA! *thunder rolls*

    I guess that might be reason enough to let them take short rests?

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    The grand finale of Curse of Strahd takes place in Castle Ravenloft, the gigantic castle of Strahd that is full of traps and monsters.

    The 5e rules suggest 2-3 shorts rest during an adventuring day. However, is this guideline at all reasonable when searching Castle Ravenloft?

    Strahd himself, so long that he takes the PCs seriously, would not allow them to get any rest in the castle. He is a powerful spellcaster who can summons a number of creatures at will and can move through walls and floors of his castle, so he would have no difficulty tracking the party and harassing them before they get a short rest.

    Hence it seem like the 2 short rests per day recommendation cannot be readily applied here without Strahd acting as an idiot. That's problematic, because he is a genius with 20 intelligence.

    Without short rests, both the Monk and the Warlock are significantly weakened in what is the final stretch of the campaign. How is that fair?
    Youre not supposed to get 2-3 short rests every adventuring day. Thats just a median figure. Some days you'll get none. Some days you'll get more.

    Just like some days you will get fewer encounters per long rest than 6, and some days you'll get more.

    Are the players really getting strenuous combat encounters in waves constantly in the castle? Like it only takes an hour (RAW) of no combat for them to get a short rest. They could well be doing other stuff during that hour; they dont have to be sitting around in a room sleeping or twiddling their thumbs.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Specific to the adventure a random encounter is supposed to be checked for every 10 minutes spent resting in the castle (see page 49 of CoS)

    An encounter occurs on an 18-20 (d20).

    If you make the 6 checks, you get a short rest.

    You an probably fail a few random encounters as well and still get a short rest, most of the encounters can be hidden from, avoided, allied with, talked to or dealt with outside of combat (Barovian commoners, Black cat, Witch, Ezmerelda, the Toy, the Broom etc etc etc etc).
    Last edited by Malifice; 2018-06-13 at 05:20 AM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    Specific to the adventure a random encounter is supposed to be checked for every 10 minutes spent resting in the castle (see page 49 of CoS)

    An encounter occurs on an 18-20 (d20).

    If you make the 6 checks, you get a short rest.

    You an probably fail a few random encounters as well and still get a short rest, most of the encounters can be hidden from, avoided, allied with, talked to or dealt with outside of combat (Barovian commoners, Black cat, Witch, Ezmerelda, the Toy, the Broom etc etc etc etc).
    Again, Strahd can (and should!) just poke his head out every 50 minutes, summon a few creatures, and take right off.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    Again, Strahd can (and should!) just poke his head out every 50 minutes, summon a few creatures, and take right off.
    Strahd should do a lot of things, including murdering the PCs in their sleep when they're level 1.

    Thing is, he's literally insane and unable to deviate from his "those pesky adventurers are no threat to me and I'm going to make the woman who would rather die than be with me mine" mindset.

    So yeah, he can toy with them every 50 minutes and summon a few creatures... and have only a few spell slots left when the PCs show up.

    Or he can let them rest, because he think he can take them on no matter what.

    Or the PCs can also not take short rests because they don't need to.


    Are you just trying to show that short rests are totally unreasonable to take/warlocks are bad or something?

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    Again, Strahd can (and should!) just poke his head out every 50 minutes, summon a few creatures, and take right off.
    Strahd is overconfident and hubristic to the extreme. He's dealt with adventurers before.

    Plus he is kind of bound to the tarot card reading.

    I mean its not a case of the DM in a state of war with the players, just having him appear to screw them over constantly. You use him (and other horror elements) to throw at the party as needed to keep them on their toes, scare them, hurry them up and so forth.

    If I was DMing it I would only have him rock very rarely up to scare the PCs (fudge rolls, have him appear, fudge some more, monologue a bit, beat them within an inch of their lives and then laugh at them and vanish) maybe the once or twice. I would also have him appear in some encounters, just watching the PCs. I'd have him feign weakness against a particular item or spell they have (that in reality does nothing to him) just to mess with them. Etc.

    If the PCs were novaing encounters (out of resources after a few encounters) and then resorting to the 5 minute adventuring day, I'd hit them harder (with Strahd or otherwise), or use him to stop them resting.

    As DM you want the players scared, but pushing onwards, drained of resources and desperate. Push a survival horror vibe on them (its entirely appropriate for the adventure). But dont go at them too hard. Let them get the occasional short rest (and even rarer long rest - the Barovian night is dark and full of terrors...) but not so much they ever feel comfortable. You want them wiping sweat off their brows every time they elect to rest, jumping at shadows and trusting no-one.

    Its comes down to the 'Art' of DMing. You want to reward your players, but not over-reward them, and you want to challenge your players, but not crank it up too hard.

    No offence to your DM but he seems to have fallen into the classic mistake of failing to police the adventuring day (either by using one of the rest variants in the DMG or via time and environmental constraints on resting) resulting in 'nova' builds and long rest based classes (Paladins, Barbarians and full casters) being OP (and making his encounters weaker).

    Long rest based classes are now nova striking encounters. Short rest based classes are lagging behind. Encounters are getting steamrolled.

    He has then responded to this by dialing up encounter difficulty. Which is of course a rookie mistake. Now all he has done is make the 5 minute adventuring day mandatory (PCs HAVE to nova to survive!). Long rest classes shine more, short rest classes suck more. PCs refuse to adventure unless fully stocked on long rest resources. Cantrips and at will abilitites never get used. Smites and high level slots get dumped in a giant button mash a thon from round one.

    What he should have done is go the other way. Inserted or enforced more encounters between long rests (either by using a rest variant in the DMG - the gritty realism rest variant fits Barovia perfectly with a survival horror theme, or via environmental or time constraints) and been slightly more permisssive with short rests.

    If he had have done the latter, classes would have balanced more, boring repetitive nova builds are devalued and players have to start thinking about resource use, and choosing when to drop that smite, slot, rage, action surge, metamagic, ki point or channel at the right moment and against the right target.

    You know; start thinking instead of mashing buttons.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    Strahd himself, so long that he takes the PCs seriously, would not allow them to get any rest in the castle. He is a powerful spellcaster who can summons a number of creatures at will and can move through walls and floors of his castle, so he would have no difficulty tracking the party and harassing them before they get a short rest.
    If you take the concept of an all-knowing and completely coherent big bad dungeon boss who has unlimited resources that they can throw nearly continuously and quite precisely at any castle invaders (whom they can automatically track), then short-rest, long rest, or completely restless strategies are immaterial, the PCs have already lost. 5e, as an edition, is a game designed around resource attrition. PCs simply do not have the universal stratospheric AC and saves such that they can wade through a near-infinite number of henchmen to get to the dungeon boss. To interpret the module as this scenario is... I guess suggesting either 1) a horribly written module, or 2) a module specifically designed such that the players are supposed to come up with a completely 'out-of-the-blue' strategy which takes the DM (and thus Strahd) completely off guard and win that way (and we can argue if that makes it a horribly written module).

    However, that is not what the game scenario describes. Instead, there is a wandering encounter table as Malifice points out as being on CoS page 49. One with plenty of easily defeated/negotiated-with/hidden from potential opponents. This lines up more naturally with what the wandering monster charts and expected actions have been for the game since '74. Looking at that chart, it seems much more reasonable for the PCs to not only be able to take a short rest, but also to eventually get to Strahd (quite possibly not too far from a reasonable location to attempt a short rest).

    So, with those two potential (and conflicting) perspectives on the module, my overall interpretation is that you and the module's designers have different ideas about how the module would actually play out (no position on who is correct).

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    If you take the concept of an all-knowing and completely coherent big bad dungeon boss who has unlimited resources that they can throw nearly continuously and quite precisely at any castle invaders (whom they can automatically track), then short-rest, long rest, or completely restless strategies are immaterial, the PCs have already lost. 5e, as an edition, is a game designed around resource attrition. PCs simply do not have the universal stratospheric AC and saves such that they can wade through a near-infinite number of henchmen to get to the dungeon boss. To interpret the module as this scenario is... I guess suggesting either 1) a horribly written module, or 2) a module specifically designed such that the players are supposed to come up with a completely 'out-of-the-blue' strategy which takes the DM (and thus Strahd) completely off guard and win that way (and we can argue if that makes it a horribly written module).

    However, that is not what the game scenario describes. Instead, there is a wandering encounter table as Malifice points out as being on CoS page 49. One with plenty of easily defeated/negotiated-with/hidden from potential opponents. This lines up more naturally with what the wandering monster charts and expected actions have been for the game since '74. Looking at that chart, it seems much more reasonable for the PCs to not only be able to take a short rest, but also to eventually get to Strahd (quite possibly not too far from a reasonable location to attempt a short rest).

    So, with those two potential (and conflicting) perspectives on the module, my overall interpretation is that you and the module's designers have different ideas about how the module would actually play out (no position on who is correct).
    Strahd has 16AC and 144HP. To be a threat, the DM pretty much has to play him in a ruthless manner, which fully fits with Strahd's exceptional intelligence.

    Personaly, I believe this article describes the best way to play Strahd.
    Last edited by Merudo; 2018-06-13 at 07:04 AM.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Yeah, Strahd is pretty insane.

    He believes these pesky insects (the PCs) are no threat to him and doesn't care if they rest within his walls. He's not worried about what they do until they fit perfectly into his own insane plans, and then he believes they will be quashed with no trouble at all.

    Let's say you were in your own home preparing for a final at school or a major project at work due the next day. Would you spend the time to ensure every last bug in your house was gone instead? Or heck, maybe you're not constrained by responsibility, but rather simply want to watch a movie or make a post on GitP - would you rather do that, or hunt and kill every last daddy-long leg? I mean, they're no thread to you. Why bother? You'll take care of it some other time - maybe during a planned extermination or when they become an actual problem (but let's face it, they never will, right?), or perhaps let one of your cats deal with it when they have the inclination. Either way, they're not important right now.

    It's a similar story in a lot of the campaigns - you've got this super ultra powerful NPC - so why doesn't it just absolutely destroy the PCs? Well, because of these other reasons.
    Last edited by mgshamster; 2018-06-13 at 07:15 AM.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    Strahd has 16AC and 144HP. To be a threat, the DM pretty much has to play him in a ruthless manner, which fully fits with Strahd's exceptional intelligence.
    Be that as it may, it is a personal DM decision on how to play Strahd. The rules for how often monsters show up to disrupt short rests are on page 49. The two are in conflict. It would not be the first time. Perhaps the adventure, with all dials set to default, is fairly easy. And perhaps, when modding the adventure to make Strahd a threat, it is possible to differentially select against certain classes (in fact, it's fairly challenging not to do so).

    Going back to your two OP-asked questions:--
    1) "is this guideline at all reasonable when searching Castle Ravenloft?" It is, by default. If you (entirely reasonably) choose to modify the scenario to highlight Strahd's brilliance, you might have to be careful lest this guideline be jeopardized (If that matters to you).
    2) "How is that fair? " It is fair because the game system declares quite clearly what expectations go into its' design decisions. If you choose to actively modify or interpret a published module in a way that disproportionately favors one group of classes over another, you are responsible for that decision. Every DM has an equal opportunity to look at the system, its' expectations, and how they interact with the greater game-world at large, modifying both while keeping in mind that changes to one will have effects on the other.

    Personaly, I believe this article escribes the best way to play Strahd.
    My workplace blocks the site, but I will check it out when I can.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2018-06-13 at 08:12 AM.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    Strahd has 16AC and 144HP. To be a threat, the DM pretty much has to play him in a ruthless manner, which fully fits with Strahd's exceptional intelligence.

    Personaly, I believe this article describes the best way to play Strahd.
    At a minimum he rocks up with mirror image pre cast and an extra 50 hit points from the ward.

    A DM is well within his rights to chuck some armor on Strahd and/or magic item or two and tweak spells to suit (shield is a nice addition, as is counter spell).

    Adding equipment and changing spells to taste is explicitly recommended in the MM.

    Bearing in mind the party are 10th level or lower when they fight him and should have had to have dealt with the denizens of much of his castle before hand, it's no easy fight.

    He should really be striking with surprise and utterly murdering one PC with his actions and legendary actions before they can even act.

    Pretty sure he has animated objects as a spell as well. Hes more than capable of a very nasty nova strike with the above and a bunch of animated objects before misty stepping and walking away and regenerating for a few rounds as needed and returning and repeating the whole thing.

    Played smart (like you're supposed to) and hes no pushover.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Strahd may think mere mortals are simple annoyances but he's not going to be casual about strangers invading his home. He's meant to be a dangerous opponent and I'd play him as such. He may taunt and harass characters at first but he by all means will not tolerate their presence for long.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    Bearing in mind the party are 10th level or lower when they fight him and should have had to have dealt with the denizens of much of his castle before hand, it's no easy fight.
    ...
    Played smart (like you're supposed to) and hes no pushover.
    Hold on, you're right. This is contradictory. OP, you are concurrently arguing that the DM has to play Strahd in a ruthless manner for him to be a threat at all, but also that the system requires a short rest before facing him. Is it not possible that Strahd, as stated, is simply designed to be a reasonable challenge for a party which has to expend a significant portion of their resources before they get to him?

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    I have a different point of view on Strahd, Remember he does have an intelligence 20, so he's very smart and didn't survive this long by doing stupid thing. But he does get bored living so long, so he's playing with the PCs as a cat playing with mice. When the players try to take a short rest, cast suggestion on a player while using greater invisibility, animate the objects around them, or just tell them of strange noise to mess with them. And sometime just rolls a dice behind your screen , takes some notes and told them not to worry they had a short rest without something disturbing them. (sometime nothing happening worry the players the most)

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Hold on, you're right. This is contradictory. OP, you are concurrently arguing that the DM has to play Strahd in a ruthless manner for him to be a threat at all, but also that the system requires a short rest before facing him. Is it not possible that Strahd, as stated, is simply designed to be a reasonable challenge for a party which has to expend a significant portion of their resources before they get to him?
    He's not exactly waiting in the first room of the keep (or maybe he is depending on what tarot card you draw I cant remember!).

    The PCs should be several encounters down, (and drained of resources) maybe a short rest or two taken (hiding breathlessly as an animated broom swooshes past) and have him rock up with mirror image precast, having intimate knowledge of the PCs tactics and spells and an animate objects up (for some mooks).

    He can move as a legendary action if he wants plus misty step plus vanishing around in his keep. That plus regeneration and his extra 50 HP from his ward make him pretty deadly.

    Give the guy the Shield spell and a ring of protection if you must make him a little more defensive.

    Played right he and his animated objects likely get a full rounds worth of actions and legendary actions on a PC of his choice.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Then I don't see what the problem is.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Then I don't see what the problem is.
    OPs DM has some kind of anti Warlock bias.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGraystone View Post
    and didn't survive this long by doing stupid thing
    Well, actually, he did.

    His whole thing is that he survives doing stupid things. More explicitly, the same stupid thing, over and over and over and over. He was so much of a vile, stupid dumbass that he damned his entire country.

    That's the "Curse" part of "Curse of Strahd". No matter how clever he is, he cannot stop himself from doing the stupid thing, and he can't die permanently either.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    I'm on the side of him using his INT, why would any BBEG just let a group of adventurers take a few short rest in his keep? Anyone with even moderate intelligence would sure as heck not let a group of hostiles just keep short resting in their home/lair due to mechanics. You can try to justify "Oh he is insane or over confident" but at that point why do they not just pull out a bed for them all and let them take long rest as well. But if you use this simple logical as a DM players automatically point the finger and scream at top of their lungs that you hate warlocks.

    Which brings up two things that trouble me.
    The "short rest" mechanic as a whole is pita and it should just be called "Per encounter powers" or something instead. Though certain players can and will abuse that as well XD.
    And a group of players all with an INT of 8 can use enough tactics and wit to put Sun Tzu to shame, but a DM uses a creature with 20 INT he has to make it nearly down syndromed so it does not party wipe the group. Granted I know some players are fine with this, but it seems most group of players get really upset with this.

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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    There are ways to stop and take a short rest even Strahd would have some trouble countering, like rope trick.

    There are ways into the castle without it being an invasion, the module even has mechanisms for Strahd to invite the party in for dinner.

    Strahd is a vampire, if you start the onslaught near dawn it might be easier to take a rest during the day when strahd and the spawn are in their coffins, etc...Particularly if you choose to do it outside, on a parapet or in the courtyard. Heck the other threats might back off to encourage you to rest during the day so the vampires are back and ready to fight when you are.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArmor View Post
    but at that point why do they not just pull out a bed for them all and let them take long rest as well.
    Strahd basically does that. He has full dictatorial power over his land, yet the characters are allowed in inns and taverns.


    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArmor View Post
    But if you use this simple logical as a DM players automatically point the finger and scream at top of their lungs that you hate warlocks.
    A Warlock should do fine in Castle Ravenloft, even if the DM says that short rests aren't available.

    Or at least, they should do just as fine as the other classes, unless they blow all their spell slots on unimportant encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArmor View Post
    The "short rest" mechanic as a whole is pita and it should just be called "Per encounter powers" or something instead.
    No, it should not.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArmor View Post
    And a group of players all with an INT of 8 can use enough tactics and wit to put Sun Tzu to shame, but a DM uses a creature with 20 INT he has to make it nearly down syndromed so it does not party wipe the group. Granted I know some players are fine with this, but it seems most group of players get really upset with this.
    Among the published module's BBEG, Strahd's pretty much the only one who do this. All the others unleash as much lethal force against you as necessary, as soon as they can.

    Even Acererak just kills you if he realizes you're in his dungeon, despite how much he normally loves to play with his food.

    Yes, a creature with 20 in INT should be played with 20 in INT. It doesn't mean that they don't have their own personality and mindset that can play against them.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    This maybe a DM decision where you need to look at the outcome you want and then figure out a way in which to make the fluff matter.


    Look at the composition of your party and evaluate what rests they need.
    Do you want to reduce the power level of the threats so that the PC's can survive?
    Will that make the encounters themselves uninteresting for everyone involved?
    Do you just want to keep everything tough and make this next to impossible for your characters?


    If you think the games play out better with short rests then figure out a reason. Maybe another party is also attacking Strahd from a different direction splitting his attention. Think outside of the box, help to steer your players to some solution that gives them the rest they need to make it interesting. But this is a great way of using some powerful NPC's that need to accomplish some other task and that distract Strahd, your party doesn't have to ever even meet the distraction, just know that it is occurring.

    If you decide Strahd's castle needs to be a challenge done without short rests, let the party know somehow in advance that this will be the case. Have them meet the only survivor from another adventuring party who tells them about the endless waves of enemies and how they were in the castle for 48 hours with no rest. See what solutions your players come up with and give them some flexibility. Give them a couple scrolls of Rope Trick as a gift from the town mayor... Another similar option is to give them one scroll that lets them teleport the party back to town, so that they can learn from their first attempt to assault the castle.

    I never think anyone should adhere to a formula for rest, but if it makes it so certain characters cannot contribute, no rests even when it might be reasonable aren't fun. So I say do the average most of the time and give the players some way to know when they will be entering a segment of your campaigned designed to test them. Let them try to be innovative. Let characters that don't normally shine, shine. Maybe find ways to reward characters that will shine less for having to go threw it. IE if you aren't getting short rests, maybe the Warlock finds a magic item that's very useful to that character.

    But as DM, you shouldn't blindly let them run into a certain TPK, without some amount of foreshadowing. If a 1st level party encounters a dragon, they should know that they aren't supposed to best the dragon in combat. Assaulting Strahd's castle should have some amount of foreshadowing how it will challenge the PCs.

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Without short rests, both the Monk and the Warlock are significantly weakened in what is the final stretch of the campaign. How is that fair?
    It is not. You are on the home turf of the major villain of your module. Of course he isn't going to play fair. But keep in mind the tavern in the mists starting hook:

    Strahd invited the heroes because he is bored and wants to screw with someone.

    As for a fair-ish way to do this, I'd allow short rests (refluffed with dread and twitchyness and long shadows and whatnot) but immediately after I'd let Strahd attack with a bunch of vampiric minions to drain the gained ressources immediately with a few specter lair actions (i'd keep the shadow lair action for the final combat, similar to the children of the night (presummoned of course).

    Other than that, don't give them short rests. Strahd has incredibly short ressources actually if he doesnt want to engage personally.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    I can imagine a short rest with proper precautions being feasible in Castle Ravenloft.

    My players kept trying to take long rests there, tho. They're like, "Why do we keep getting ambushed?"

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Well if you are going to push the characters to not allow short rests due to int then Strahd should also be using his resources to ensure that the long rest characters are also wasting their power and then being sure that they cannot get a long rest in. If you are playing it that way the long rest classes are eventually going to be worse off than the short rest ones since short rest classes tend to have better abilities outside of their rest mechanics than many long rest based classes do.
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  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    Well if you are going to push the characters to not allow short rests due to int then Strahd should also be using his resources to ensure that the long rest characters are also wasting their power and then being sure that they cannot get a long rest in. If you are playing it that way the long rest classes are eventually going to be worse off than the short rest ones since short rest classes tend to have better abilities outside of their rest mechanics than many long rest based classes do.
    That's where I'm landing. Either:
    1) resting is not feasible, since the brilliant, omniscient ruler of the realm, if played smart, should really not give the party any kind of rest once he's aware of them and their intent until either they or he are vanquished. In which case that party is going to come crawling into his chamber with most of their expendables expended, such that they will be going cantrips and normal attacks vs. a glass cannon wizard, making it a much fairer fight (one where the warlock has a distinct advantage over the wizard, based on relative cantrip damage, etc.). Or,-
    2) Strahd has some actual, practical limitations*, in which case a careful and ingenious party can probably find a situation where they can get a rest or two, and will be rewarded for that ingenuity by coming at Strahd with more in reserve.
    *the current one being that he is sending his minions after the party intelligently, and that's what the wandering monster table represents. Even if he has control over these minions, he's not controlling them like remote-control drones. They act at his direction but on their own (rather constrained, by being undead, constructs, etc.) initiative and intelligence.

    Neither of these situations actually seem all that detrimental to the SR-recharging classes.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2018-06-14 at 09:47 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Does Strahd automatically know where the PCs are? Or is he using his highest level slot to cast Scry once (or twice, I forgot).

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Does Strahd automatically know where the PCs are? Or is he using his highest level slot to cast Scry once (or twice, I forgot).
    And while we're clearing up specifics about the scenario, what are the mechanisms which compromise "who can summon a number of creatures at will and can move through walls and floors of his castle?"

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: CoS: Should players be allowed to take short rests in Castle Ravenloft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    And while we're clearing up specifics about the scenario, what are the mechanisms which compromise "who can summon a number of creatures at will and can move through walls and floors of his castle?"
    Well he can move through locked doors thanks to his mist form, and he can summon swarms of bats or rats... once per night.

    Also, I checked, he can only use Scrying once per day.


    Shouldn't forget that if you're a lvl 10 Wizard, you're actually a better Wizard than Strahd.

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