OOTS #1124 - The Discussion Thread

[zimmerwald1915]

Only in a very, VERY narrow technical sense of "cold-blooded" and "killer" that I doubt Lucas was using.

Most people would not consider a self-defense shooting the act of a cold-blooded killer even if the person reasoned his way to the killing.

And they would be wrong. Han was applying a "cold calculus" to the situation, not struggling for his life or acting purely on instict. Whether that's excusable or not is another matter, but "cold-blooded killer" accurately describes Han in the original scene. He reasoned his way to a conclusion that the man opposite him had to die. That's what "cold-blooded killer" means.

[Emanick]

And there's that one again, "Trade Federation." How do they come up with this stuff? Someone's wacky fanfiction I suppose.

Seems unfair. The concept of a trade federation is a pretty intuitive and useful one. Hardly wacky.

[zimmerwald1915]

Seems unfair. The concept of a trade federation is a pretty intuitive and useful idea. Hardly wacky.

Would it have been too on the nose to to call it The Customs Union? Or would it have given away the game of no polity or political movement in Star Wars having an actual name?

[Jasdoif]

Would it have been too on the nose to to call it The Customs Union?

Huh...I don't remember if the Techno Union was name-dropped in the movies.

[Riftwolf]

Yknow, one day I'll open a long-running thread without seeing alignment arguments, Tarquin or Star Wars.
I may have to join a different forum first of course.

[Keltest]

Huh...I don't remember if the Techno Union was name-dropped in the movies.

It was, briefly, in the second one.

[eilandesq]

George Lucas didn't talk about rating agencies; he said that shooting first would have made Han a cold-blooded killer.

Ironically, as I indicated (albeit in white text), I pretty much think the exact opposite is the case--when Han shot Greedo for very explicitly threatening him, it didn't say anything bad about him. In the revised version, he shot a man who was clearly such a bad shot he was no threat even if he wanted to be.

Anyone with a lethal weapon at that range is a threat. Even the poor soul who came out of the back room blasting at Vincent and Jules in Pulp Fiction and missed six times at point blank range would have been a threat if they'd let him reload (or possibly reach for another weapon). Mind you, the self-defense argument would have been a tad shaky given that they'd already shot one person in the apartment dead for being too terrified to speak coherently.

[MartianInvader]

I believe the Trade Federation was created by The Architect to contain the demons Piccolo and Oozaru.

Also, had anyone ever heard of this comic called "The Order of the Stick?". I've heard it's pretty good.

[Ionathus]

Also, had anyone ever heard of this comic called "The Order of the Stick?". I've heard it's pretty good.

Never heard of it, and I've read most of the Star Wars EU. Is it a later novel?



back to the point...

If we're talking about Greg betraying Hel, I think "Forget it."

If we're talking about Greg endangering his plans due to being tempted by a chance to indulge sadism or bloodthirst, on the other hand, I think we've seen that already, multiple times.

This is my sense of it, too. I don't think that Greg's going to turn against Hel (nor Ponchella for that matter: regardless of how much the forums have argued on her devotion, her betrayal won't be a turning point in this fight simply because it hasn't been set up for us to consider). I also don't think he's going to run away because of Durkon's Big Memory. I think that this is the final battle for Greg, and he's not walking away from it of his own volition.

I could be wrong, though.

[Manty5]

Also, had anyone ever heard of this comic called "The Order of the Stick?". I've heard it's pretty good.

Yeah, actually! I heard that the MC gained the "Force Pull" jedi power, but it only works on his own sword when it goes into lightsaber mode.

Also, he's currently struggling with temptations to join the dark side at the expense of the fate of the world... but free massages, and pizza on thursdays sounds too much for him to resist...

In episode III, his estranged father also attempts to get him to go over to the dark side: "Together, we can destroy the galaxy!"

[D.One]

Yeah, actually! I heard that the MC gained the "Force Pull" jedi power, but it only works on his own sword when it goes into lightsaber mode.

Also, he's currently struggling with temptations to join the dark side at the expense of the fate of the world... but free massages, and pizza on thursdays sounds too much for him to resist...

In episode III, his estranged father also attempts to get him to go over to the dark side: "Together, we can destroy the galaxy!"

I've also heard that the main antagonist is a decrepit dark side overlord aided by a guy in red clothes and troops of random rarely effective mooks.

[Manty5]

"Only the goblins are this precise".

[Ruck]

If you find yourself getting all worked up about a fictional comic book character, you might need to take another look at what's important in your life.

That's a bit much. Wistful and fatalistic, maybe.

Replace with "feel the need to bring up how much you loathe the character every single time someone mentions them" and it still holds.

[martianmister]

Problem with "Han shoot first" is that, it's really hard to believe that Greedo is really gonna kill Han Solo. He is too friendly towards him and if he really wanted to kill him he would shoot him at the first chance, instead of inviting him to a table for a relaxed conversation. It's also make more sense for him to bring Han Solo to Jabba alive so he can pay back to them.

[Keltest]

Problem with "Han shoot first" is that, it's really hard to believe that Greedo is really gonna kill Han Solo. He is too friendly towards him and if he really wanted to kill him he would shoot him at the first chance, instead of inviting him to a table for a relaxed conversation. It's also make more sense for him to bring Han Solo to Jabba alive so he can pay back to them.

I think your standards for what constitute friendly need to be improved somewhat. Greedo may have been inept, but he was pretty clearly also hostile.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Han: "Over my dead body."

Greedo: "That's the idea."

Yeah, absolutely no threat there.

[Peelee]

Problem with "Han shoot first" is that, it's really hard to believe that Greedo is really gonna kill Han Solo. He is too friendly towards him and if he really wanted to kill him he would shoot him at the first chance, instead of inviting him to a table for a relaxed conversation. It's also make more sense for him to bring Han Solo to Jabba alive so he can pay back to them.

Greedo was not smart. This didn't make him less dangerous, and arguably made him more dangerous. His "invitation" was at the barrel of a gun. He wanted to take the money Han owed Jabba for himself, effectively stiffing Jabba. He threatened to kill Han without ensuring his own safety. Dude's intelligence was not related to his threat level, which was pretty clear.