OOTS #1124 - The Discussion Thread

[Peelee]

Wait...the lettering on the wall was made from your gold?

Well, I built the wall Azure City paid for it.

[ohkwarig]

Yup. Though I'm wondering how it might tie into the news about Durkon's exile, that Roy is trying to bring up.

That honestly intrigues me more than the mystery in the back rooms.

[Talyn]

What is in the back room? I MUST KNOW.

[FlawedParadigm]

Too many cliffhangers!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What is in the back room? I MUST KNOW.

A list of wealthy donors to the Thor temple, with Durkon's mom name on it. The same one that can't afford turnips for the soup.

GW

[warmachine]

A Dominated person carries out his orders to the exclusion of all other activities except those needed for day-to-day survival. That means Elan was explicitly ordered to convert Roy to the Dominated side, not just attack Roy.

[Dion]

I wonder why Sigdi has been giving all her money to the Temple. And why she seems to absolutely refuse to accept gifts and wants to repay all her debts.
Might it have something to do with Durkon's father? Was the story of his death untrue? Perhaps this memory will reveal the truth once and for all.

My guess is that it relates to Durkon and Odin’s prophecy in some way.

We know in the OoTS universe, prophecies are often unhelpful, and sometimes they’re even flat out lies (poor Hilgya’s brother didn’t win his jello race bet, after all).

But I wonder if Sigdi somehow learned about the prophecy about Durkon, even before the high priest of Odin found out about it, and if that’s somehow related to her relationship with the church.

Because there’s a wonderful thing about predicting the future: there’s no rule in the DMG that says only one person can predict the future, or that everyone finds out the same future at the same time.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

We know in the OoTS universe, prophecies are often unhelpful, and sometimes they’re even flat out lies (poor Hilgya’s brother didn’t win his jello race bet, after all).

No, we don't know that, because "my sister dressing up like my mom to lie to me" is not a subtype of prophecy.

GW

[Dion]

A Dominated person carries out his orders to the exclusion of all other activities except those needed for day-to-day survival. That means Elan was explicitly ordered to convert Roy to the Dominated side, not just attack Roy.

Or maybe Elan believes his very survival depends on his inanity.

Elan knows that he is a character in a story, and as a high level bard he understands the structure of that story, and the needs and desires of the storyteller. His continued existence depends on fulfilling his role in that story, and thus he provides jokes at roy’s expense to continue his own existence.

[137beth]

A Dominated person carries out his orders to the exclusion of all other activities except those needed for day-to-day survival. That means Elan was explicitly ordered to convert Roy to the Dominated side, not just attack Roy.

Or maybe talking doesn't exclude what Elan was actually ordered to do (i.e., try to kill Roy). Since, ya know, it's a free action to talk during combat.

[Dion]

No, we don't know that, because "my sister dressing up like my mom to lie to me" is not a subtype of prophecy.

GW

Sure it is. Prophecy is prophecy. To the people who receive it, it makes literally no difference if it comes from an actual god, or your dead dad dressed up as an archon, or some random kobold.

You have no possible way of knowing if it’s true.

[Crœsos]

A Dominated person carries out his orders to the exclusion of all other activities except those needed for day-to-day survival. That means Elan was explicitly ordered to convert Roy to the Dominated side, not just attack Roy.

Or maybe the order was something general like the "Take him down" Haley got last strip. Elan may have decided that the best way he has to take Roy down is through his Diplomacy skill rather than direct combat.

[Sienar]

Or maybe talking doesn't exclude what Elan was actually ordered to do (i.e., try to kill Roy). Since, ya know, it's a free action to talk during combat.

Or he was ordered to "defeat" Roy and since Charisma is his best stat making Bluff a high likelihood of success he's using that skill to convince Roy to switch to the Dominated side.

[Kish]

Sure it is. Prophecy is prophecy. To the people who receive it, it makes literally no difference if it comes from an actual god, or your dead dad dressed up as an archon, or some random kobold.

You have no possible way of knowing if it’s true.

Plot twist: Xykon didn't kill Fyron at all. The Oracle just made up a name at random to tell Eugene. And he's alive because he just happened to be amazingly lucky when telling the lizardfolk when to teleport in and Raise him.

(Or maybe what I quoted is utter and complete tosh, on the level of saying that Banjo's existence proves that no one can be certain that real gods exist in OotS, including Durkon and Greg.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Sure it is. Prophecy is prophecy. To the people who receive it, it makes literally no difference if it comes from an actual god, or your dead dad dressed up as an archon, or some random kobold.

You have no possible way of knowing if it’s true.

No, "prophecy" is a word, that has a meaning. "Being lied to by your sister" is not part of that meaning. "Some prophecies in OotS are lies" is only a true statement if you redefine "prophecy" to include "lies", at which point your statement is tautological, and therefore useless.

Grey Wolf

[Elanasaurus]

Hey, did Elan's lute change position just before the last panel? Asking because this is important to me.

[Peelee]

Sure it is. Prophecy is prophecy. To the people who receive it, it makes literally no difference if it comes from an actual god, or your dead dad dressed up as an archon, or some random kobold.

You have no possible way of knowing if it’s true.

There are a lot of ways, actually. Divination spells exist. Plus, say a random kobold and a kobold known for selling prophetic answers for money both give conflicting prophecies. Would you really treat them with equal weight, like you're implying here?

[BowStreetRunner]

In the last panel Roy blocks Elan sword with his bare hand. Is that supported by an in-game mechanic?

[JumboWheat01]

The dominated side has pizza and free massages?

I am tempted.

[Fyraltari]

No, we don't know that, because "my sister dressing up like my mom to lie to me" is not a subtype of prophecy.

GW

Plot twist: Xykon didn't kill Fyron at all. The Oracle just made up a name at random to tell Eugene. And he's alive because he just happened to be amazingly lucky when telling the lizardfolk when to teleport in and Raise him.

(Or maybe what I quoted is utter and complete tosh, on the level of saying that Banjo's existence proves that no one can be certain that real gods exist in OotS, including Durkon and Greg.)

I think Dion is saying that you can't know that someone giving you a prophecy is not lying through their teeth. Hypothetically, I guess, since "that prophecy that drove your character arc is a lie" unless used to make a point about free will or "anyone can be the hero" is terrible writing and The Giant wouldn't do that to us, would he?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

In the last panel Roy blocks Elan sword with his bare hand. Is that supported by an in-game mechanic?

Yes, in that RAW doesn't specify how attacks that don't beat your AC are actually blocked. If you want to RP that you deflect blades with your bare hands (as monks regularly do), nothing in RAW stops you.

GW

[Peelee]

In the last panel Roy blocks Elan sword with his bare hand. Is that supported by an in-game mechanic?

Inasmuch as fluff is an in-game mechanic for why the attack was below your AC.

ETA:

I think Dion is saying that you can't know that someone giving you a prophecy is not lying through their teeth. Hypothetically, I guess, since "that prophecy that drove your character arc is a lie" unless used to make a point about free will or "anyone can be the hero" is terrible writing and The Giant wouldn't do that to us, would he?

In the same vein as you can't know that someone is calling you is not lying through their teeth as to who they are, that's correct, but still inherently meaningless. That doesn't mean official business calls are untrustworthy, it just means that a scammer isn't an official business call. Similarly, Hilgya's bluffing wasn't a prophecy, despite how she made it seem. Making a distinction that they couldn't tell being relevant is a bit silly.

[Breccia]

Huh, Elan isn't punning?

If forced to pun with dominate person, you get a new saving throw.

[nocoolnamejim]

My guess is that it relates to Durkon and Odin’s prophecy in some way.

We know in the OoTS universe, prophecies are often unhelpful, and sometimes they’re even flat out lies

Hoping this is the case with Belker.

[Sienar]

So ... I guess the dominatrix in the title pun is the sassy vampiress with the cooperative host? Since she made lots of spawn, I mean.

Or the tricks are what Elan is doing...

Silly bard, dominate tricks is for vampires!

[happycrow]

*slow clap*

[gkarrish]

Hey, did Elan's lute change position just before the last panel? Asking because this is important to me.

I'll play along. The lute is held to Elan's back by a sling, which might be loose enough to allow some movement. It is at least a reasonable hypothesis that, when Elan lunged with the Chaos Sabre, inertia caused the heaviest part of the lute to swing forward.

[Tiiba]

"I can't believe you turned on Durkon, Roy!"

I misread this.

[Mr_Ratatosk]

A list of wealthy donors to the Thor temple, with Durkon's mom name on it. The same one that can't afford turnips for the soup.

GW

If you look at the comic showing that scene, Durkon's face is looking at the list and away from the camera. Considering that the rest of the orientation was about freezers and taxes, I highly doubt that Durkin was disturbed by anything other than...

Well, okay, maybe he had an existential crisis after doing tax paperwork, but still...

[Derian]

Durkon looks angry and disappointed in one of those memory panels there.

Perhaps there's a disillusionment source that, while not as strong as his anger that spawned Greg when he was vamped, still strongly shapes his personality. And that disillusionment/injustice/whatever else is enough to distract Greg or even forcibly change his priorities?

I guess the question is whether the vampire spirit's personality can be altered by the character development of the original spirit or not.