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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Best metamagic for Warlock?

    What are the best metamagics for a Warcerer with only 3 measly Sorcerer points? I’m unlikely to take any more levels in sorcerer...

    Should I just take Quicken for a 1 shot massive Eldritch Blast and use the remaining point to Twin low-level spells like firebolt or healing word. Or perhaps the remaining point could be better used for Empowered spell to boost my Eldritch super-blast even further?

    I know we are talking chump change at this point...just wondering how to make the best use of these 3 points...never played sorcerer of any kind before.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Subtle and maximize. Cheap and strong. No need to try getting fancy when you dont have the sorcery points to pull it off. Your casting all your spells at max level so good luck with twin.

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    strangebloke's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterO’dim View Post
    What are the best metamagics for a Warcerer with only 3 measly Sorcerer points? I’m unlikely to take any more levels in sorcerer...

    Should I just take Quicken for a 1 shot massive Eldritch Blast and use the remaining point to Twin low-level spells like firebolt or healing word. Or perhaps the remaining point could be better used for Empowered spell to boost my Eldritch super-blast even further?

    I know we are talking chump change at this point...just wondering how to make the best use of these 3 points...never played sorcerer of any kind before.
    Remember, you can turn unnused pact magic slots into sorcery points via the Font of Magic ability when you take a short rest. You won't necessarily be low on Sorcery points at all times.

    As to your question, the real answer depends on what spells you have. Empower (sophon called 'maximize') is probably the best general purpose pick. Twin is good if you're using a blade cantrip or a high-level buff... although as sophon said, you'll need to convert a slot to points if you're going to do that. Subtle is great if you have spells like Enemies Abound or Dominate Person and you're in a social situation. Distant is hilarious if you combo it with eldritch spear and spell sniper 1200 foot range, go! Quicken is ok for you, but probably too expensive. Heighten is definitely too expensive.

    What's your bloodline?
    Last edited by strangebloke; 2018-06-13 at 01:08 PM.

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    MegenticPull's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quicken is powerful, but with only three levels of Sorcerer and full warlock spell progression, sorcery points will be in short supply, even if you do opt to break your warlock slots down.

    Twin is the same way: amazing metamagic, probably better for a Warlock 3 Sorcerer X than the other way around.

    Subtle can be super powerful: not only can you charm person or suggestion right in the subject's face, but also, your spells can't be counter spelled! Counter spell requires that a target sees the spell be cast, subtle removes the components they would see. If your DM rules that a spell with only material components is still observable, it's slightly less good, but still powerful (and still counterspell-proofs a large part of your spell list)

    Empower is probably the other one worth considering: you use it after the spell goes off, so you don't have to worry about it being a waste. It's just pure extra damage when you blast.

    Both Empower and Subtle use 1 sorcery point only. The other options are all traps in some respect: Careful only works with a small handful of spells, because it only works with spell saves on the turn you cast the spell (not the round, so things like Web don't work RAW) and damage spells will still do half damage. Distant spell never comes up. Extend spell is also mostly useless, spell durations are normally "one combat" or "long enough" and doubling either isn't valuable. It'd be neat to double the duration of really long spells, or spells with a 1 round duration but those are specifically excluded. Heightened spell is actually really good, but you don't have the sorcery points to make it worth while, much better for 10th level sorcerers.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post

    What's your bloodline?
    Bloodline? You mean Draconic Bloodline? Actually, I chose Divine Soul - Evil For my sorcererous origin. Haven’t nailed down The actual divine connection part yet. So many great evil deities out there!

    OK in terms of straight damage for my Eldritch Blast which is better 1 use of Quicken or two uses of Empower? At +5 Charisma I would have 10 damage re-rolls.

    Subtle spell does seem pretty appropriate for a nefarious warlock...

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Sounds like you have figured it out but you really should take Subtle.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    In my first post I meant to say empower, not maximize. In case this confused anyone.

    They might not be flashy (for subtle thats the point) but empower and subtle are top tier metamagics, espesially when you have few sorcery points.

    Empower can be used with all of your spells for one sorcery point each use. Quicken will raise in cost and eventually only work with cantrips. You choose to use empower after you roll, so you only use it when its useful.

    With quicken the real use is that you can cast and use dodge, or dash. If you are looking for more damage empower will go further since it works with your stronger spells.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Looking at my spell list I now see the benefit of Subtle spell when facing spell casters with Counterspell...I’m convinced!

    I assume if I use subtle spell to charm a person or monster they still realize that they were charmed when the spell ends...they are always so grumpy after!

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    8wGremlin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    if you weren't and evil divine soul I'd say twin, as you can pick cleric spells that require concentration and twin a lot of them.
    but i'm not sure that would fit your concept

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Warcerer. Love it. Sounds so much more badass than Sorlock.

    Anyways, Subtle all the way. Couple it with charms, illusions, whatever. Only costs 1 SP each no matter what you're casting and also helps if you find yourself bound and/or gagged.
    Roll for it
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterO’dim View Post
    I assume if I use subtle spell to charm a person or monster they still realize that they were charmed when the spell ends...they are always so grumpy after!
    They will. But with subtle and mask of many faces, they'll potentially be annoyed at someone else entirely while you've already got what you wanted

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    100% Quickened Spell if you only intend to get 2 metamagics.

    Double Eldritch Blasts in a round is amazing and since it is no longer compatible with twinned spell this is the defacto "deal double DPR" ability.

    Since Eldritch Blast is also one of the best cantrips in the game it's more valuable to quicken out other spells.

    Conversely, there are a few competitors for bonus action spells.


    Subtle or Empower for your second.

    Subtle is good if your DM is nuanced and lends credence to the requirement for verbal and somatic components to spells whereas empower is good if you have spells that do damage (so it's always good), but has less game breaking, ignore counterspell/silence/submerged in water/grappled intelligently etc etc.
    "What most us tend to forget is that statistically speaking, 50% of people out there have below average intelligence."

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterO’dim View Post
    What are the best metamagics for a Warcerer with only 3 measly Sorcerer points? I’m unlikely to take any more levels in sorcerer...

    Should I just take Quicken for a 1 shot massive Eldritch Blast and use the remaining point to Twin low-level spells like firebolt or healing word. Or perhaps the remaining point could be better used for Empowered spell to boost my Eldritch super-blast even further?

    I know we are talking chump change at this point...just wondering how to make the best use of these 3 points...never played sorcerer of any kind before.
    Subtle is the kinda obvious to me, since whatever spell you have and whatever situation you're in you'll have the use for it.

    Quicken can be worthy as some kind of emergency button, but besides that I feel it's a bit too costly. It is at least a "good enough" choice anyways.

    I would however suggest another 1-point Metamagic that would fit your favored Warlock spells.
    For example, if you go Fiend, it's likely for Fireball: Empowered is a must-have then, considering you'll end blowing at least one 5th level one every short-rest.
    If you like to play with control spells like Fear or Hypnotic Pattern, which can equally affect your friends, then Careful is the best thing you can get.
    If you fancy touch spells while not having a pet or are likely to fight often in clear, big spaces, then Distant could be worthy.
    EDIT: I see you got Divine Soul for Sorcerer, so you *may* like the Extend metamagic because of specific combinations like Extended Mage Armor / Darkvision / Aid / Enhance Ability. But I'd only pick it if you also have Warlock spells you intend to use often that would benefit from it (ooc Darkness/Invisibility/Spider Climb/upcast Fly/DREAMS? Get some margin of error in combat by doubling Shadow Blade or Fear/HP? Bet on complex Suggestions because with 16 hours instead of 8 there is more chance of target achieving it in time?)

    >>>> Get a bit ahead in Warlock's leveling to check which spells you're really interested in using the most and pick the metamagic synergizing the most with those. :)
    Last edited by Citan; 2018-06-14 at 07:28 AM.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    100% Quickened Spell if you only intend to get 2 metamagics.

    Since Eldritch Blast is also one of the best cantrips in the game it's more valuable to quicken out other spells.
    You make a good point...My warlock is very reliant on Eldridge blast. Those first level sorcerer spell slots could allow me to quicken 2 additional eblasts per day...Not to say that’s the best use of my resources. The math gets pretty nuts when you add in agonizing blast, hex and/or hex blades curse...

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Citan View Post
    If you like to play with control spells like Fear or Hypnotic Pattern, which can equally affect your friends, then Careful is the best thing you can get.
    I totally forgot warlocks got hypnotic patter. Depending on what level you're anticipating getting to I'd totally considering it worth taking careful solely for use in conjunction with hypnotic pattern.

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Warcerer is warlock with sorcerer dip.
    SorLock is sorcerer with warlock dip.

    Or thats the way i see it.

    I'd go for Subtle if your DM loves social interactions where you can use suggestion in the targets face or in a group and no one will know.
    Empowered for ok that hits now lets do more dmg with it.
    Quicken is good as an emergency I need more dmg now but wont come up that often.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamap View Post
    Warcerer is warlock with sorcerer dip.
    SorLock is sorcerer with warlock dip.

    Or thats the way i see it.
    Agreed. SorLock is a pretty common build and easy to find advice. Not so much with Warcerer.

    Seems like most folks just take a few levels of Warlock and move on...

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best metamagic for Warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterO’dim View Post
    You make a good point...My warlock is very reliant on Eldridge blast. Those first level sorcerer spell slots could allow me to quicken 2 additional eblasts per day...Not to say that’s the best use of my resources. The math gets pretty nuts when you add in agonizing blast, hex and/or hex blades curse...
    Yeah, I am going under the assumption that you take agonizing blast at the very least.

    You are not limited to 2/day since you can burn spell slots for more sorcery points btw.

    A good way to think about it would be if you are acting in a round where you have a spare bonus action anyway your sorcerer is spending a level 2 spell slot (in sorcery points) to fire off 4d10+4*CHA modifier in tier 2. This damage is also normalised over 4 attacks (more consistent) and becomes godly with elven accuracy. This becomes 6d10+30 into tier 3 which is more damage than any level 2 spell slot could give in a single round. What's more, if you have spells like Hold Person/Monster you can crit a creature the same round you cast it. Lastly if you take Repelling Blast (highly recommended) you are pushing 1 creature up to 40ft, 4 creatures 10ft or anything in between.

    In particular I have a great wall of fire combo that does the damage twice in one round; quicken a wall of fire (force a save or take half) and ready your cantrip for when the enemy moves out of the area, once the action is triggered on their turn simply pushing them back into the wall's AoE will force the enemy to take the damage again (no save).
    Last edited by TheUser; 2018-06-14 at 03:54 PM.

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