Why is starfinder so horribly undeveloped?

[Acanous]

Starfinder never seems to get off the ground at my local shop. Not really sure why, just finding players seems to be nigh impossible

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
I have not had significantly more time with Starfinder than anyone else.

Well, as you’ve just demonstrated, you’ve had 100% more time with it than I have. And I’m sure there are plenty of other people hereabouts who haven’t played it either.

Originally Posted by Pysren
The information is "scattered" in exactly two places; the elemental section (pgs. 46-48) and the grafts section (146-148, next to the spell itself.)

The concept of having to build a summoned creature is new to me, and it seems like a hassle. I don’t blame the OP and his group for being a little baffled by this.

And the fact is, it remains rather ungenerous to claim the OP and his group are “unwilling” to read, when that’s very clearly not the case.

Originally Posted by Acanous
Starfinder never seems to get off the ground at my local shop. Not really sure why, just finding players seems to be nigh impossible….

I don’t know anyone who’s played Starfinder, and I haven’t seen a single game proposed on my local gaming Meetup.

What’s also interesting is that my city library system, which is very responsive to requests for gaming books, doesn’t have any of the Starfinder titles. They have a solid number of 4E books, a handful of leftover 3.5 books, a decent selection of Pathfinder books (most purchased at my request) but not a single Starfinder title.

That tells me that no one has put in a materials request for Starfinder, which means there’s very little local interest. At least in my area, it’s fair to say that Starfinder hasn’t much caught on.

.

[Psyren]

Minor quibble, five pages is hardly two places.

It is when they're consecutive. That's called a section. It's like saying "The PHB is so confusing, the info on skills is 'scattered' across 17 pages."

Well, as you’ve just demonstrated, you’ve had 100% more time with it than I have. And I’m sure there are plenty of other people hereabouts who haven’t played it either.

Again I ask, if the exact page numbers are provided and not followed, what more is expected? Is that really a barrier?

The concept of having to build a summoned creature is new to me, and it seems like a hassle.

So you never used a template before in your gaming career? Or psionics?

And the fact is, it remains rather ungenerous to claim the OP and his group are “unwilling” to read, when that’s very clearly not the case.

As mentioned, I can think of literally no other justification for this, so I'm sticking with it. If it sounds harsh or "ungenerous", well, so does the thread title. I'm only responding in kind.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
If it sounds harsh or "ungenerous", well, so does the thread title. I'm only responding in kind.

The difference is, the OP is directing his frustration at the system, which is impersonal. You’re responding with a personal attack on the OP and his group, which is very personal.

[Pleh]

The difference is, the OP is directing his frustration at the system, which is impersonal. You’re responding with a personal attack on the OP and his group, which is very personal.

No, it's very personally against the designers who made the system. It's tit for tat, not one sided.

[Psyren]

No, it's very personally against the designers who made the system. It's tit for tat, not one sided.

Precisely. And his attack began a dogpile of other posters far more eager to slam those designers than to take 2 minutes actually verifying his claims. Because god knows rushing to attack Paizo is much easier than doing any research, no matter what efforts they make to put the info on the page.

But if volition or ability are not the issue here, then I have to ask, what is the cause? OP says he has the PDF too, so we can't say it's just because of a SRD's lack of page numbers. (Though I'll point out that, just as a general and free piece of advice, relying solely on a third-party website of any kind is not the optimal way to learn a new system anyway. It is simply not designed to teach the game in the way that the actual book was.)

[Cosi]

It seems that the simplest and most parsimonious explanation is that Starfinder is horribly underdeveloped because the people developing it weren't very good developers.

No, it's very personally against the designers who made the system. It's tit for tat, not one sided.

Well, it would be if Psyren were one of the designers. Or so attached to the designers that he considers criticism of their work a personal insult against him.

In any case, criticism of the designers is not equal to personal insults against a random gaming group. The designers made a product, and sold it for money. They should expect criticism in a way that a random gaming group should not. What Psyren is doing is punching down in an effort to preempt any criticism of Paizo.

[Rynjin]

It seems that the simplest and most parsimonious explanation is that Starfinder is horribly underdeveloped because the people developing it weren't very good developers.

I wouldn't say that. Mcreary, Stephens, and Hillman are all pretty good at their jobs. Stephens has put out some pretty questionable 3PP content (the Godlings in particular suck ass and are one of the few 3PP classes I explicitly pre-ban), but the vast majority of his third party work has been great.

But the Starfinder dev cycle was kind of a joke, and it was made clear that it was a secondary project at best. The Alien Archive didn't come out until a month after the core rulebook (making it hard to run a game at launch, I'll tell you, and I lost interest before the bestiary ever actually launched) and it was clearly rushed in a lot of places.

[Thurbane]

The concept of having to build a summoned creature is new to me, and it seems like a hassle. I don’t blame the OP and his group for being a little baffled by this.

Agreed. From my understanding Astral Constructs (we don't use psionics) and the little I have read about Eidolons seem to follow a similar "build your own creature" method that doesn't appeal to me. Sure, with Summon Monster I may have to apply Fiendish or Celestial, but some good community folks have created a pre-made booklet that does that for me anyway.

The difference is, the OP is directing his frustration at the system, which is impersonal. You’re responding with a personal attack on the OP and his group, which is very personal.

Agreed.

No, it's very personally against the designers who made the system. It's tit for tat, not one sided.

Very much disagreed.

The Forum Rules go into some detail about attacking, insulting, belittling or abusing other posters. It doesn't extend these same rules to game devs, except by inference under general rules of putting down play style preferences or trolling.

Personally, I don't feel the OPs critique of Starfinder crossed any of those lines, but your mileage my vary.

I do think some comments directed specifically at other forum members may have been somewhat uncalled for or over the top.

I think we should be able to critique or even criticize a book or system without being unpleasant to each other in the process.

My 2 coppers anyhow. Sorry for wall of text.

[Pleh]

I think we should be able to critique or even criticize a book or system without being unpleasant to each other in the process.

I think it's fair to critique a criticism for, "your problem is user error, not system malfunction" and that saying as much isn't unpleasant or disrespectful (even if doing so requires some moderation of tone).

[Thurbane]

I think it's fair to critique a criticism for, "your problem is user error, not system malfunction" and that saying as much isn't unpleasant or disrespectful (even if doing so requires some moderation of tone).

That seems a fair point. It's all in the tone and wording, of course, but your premise is fair.

[Psyren]

Agreed, I may have crossed a line. Again, the dogpile of assent with what boiled down to nothing more than user error was typical, but that doesn't excuse my assumption that volition was the underlying cause of the OP's disconnect. I still don't know what it could have been, but speculating on my part was an unnecessary step to solving the problem.

Pleh, I'd like to hire you as my public relations representative going forward.

OP, hopefully you know where to look now.