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  1. - Top - End - #601
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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Going from the outside in is clearly refenestration.
    Only if it was previously defenestrated. I believe the word we're looking for is infenestration
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    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text
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    What's the word for 'fear of being eaten by a mounted bear in half-plate' again? Because that's the one I have.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    Only if it was previously defenestrated.
    Would that not be prefenestrated?
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Would that not be prefenestrated?
    No, that's when it's fenestrated ahead of time.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Would that not be prefenestrated?
    I am guessing fenestration is the directionally neutral version. Since this topic is about finding neutral versions of words which impose a bias, I shall henceforth avoid the use of directionally biased words when hurling things through windows.

    (Note that I am not trying to make a joke at anyone's expense. I recognize that cultural bias has loaded certain words with meanings which never should have been attached to them and I applaud the effort to overcome this obstacle.)

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    I am guessing fenestration is the directionally neutral version.
    You would be wrong. "Fenestration" refers to the windows themselves, and is a noun.
    Those were the days, my friend! We thought they'd never end. We'd sing and dance forever and a day. We'd live the life we'd choose, we'd fight and never lose, for we were young and sure to have our way.

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  6. - Top - End - #606
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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Fenestration would be the noun derived from the verb fenestrate, which would indeed be a static form. Although why you'd put someone on a window without throwing them in either direction is beyond me.
    ungelic is us

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Fenestration would be the noun derived from the verb fenestrate, which would indeed be a static form. Although why you'd put someone on a window without throwing them in either direction is beyond me.
    It's the other way around. There isn't a verb "to fenestrate," except in the technical vocabulary of surgery, where it refers to creating a [window-like] opening in tissue. The noun "fenestration," referring to the arrangement of windows and doors on a building, by contrast, is from the 1500s. It is derived from a Latin noun (for "window"), and not a verb. "To defenestrate" is from the 1600s, and was created to describe the action of throwing a person out of a building through a window.
    Those were the days, my friend! We thought they'd never end. We'd sing and dance forever and a day. We'd live the life we'd choose, we'd fight and never lose, for we were young and sure to have our way.

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  8. - Top - End - #608
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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    It's the other way around. There isn't a verb "to fenestrate," except in the technical vocabulary of surgery, where it refers to creating a [window-like] opening in tissue. The noun "fenestration," referring to the arrangement of windows and doors on a building, by contrast, is from the 1500s. It is derived from a Latin noun (for "window"), and not a verb. "To defenestrate" is from the 1600s, and was created to describe the action of throwing a person out of a building through a window.
    You may not have noticed, but we're all coining new words in this thread (that some of them existed at some prior point with a different meaning is quite irrelevant in this context). I mean, it's pretty late to complain that a given word used here for jokes doesn't actually exist. Everybody here knows what fenestra means. Formally, -tion in English and -tio in Latin are normally attached to verbs, existing or implied, and you can't really separate the two. Fenestration, refenestration, infenestration etc. are all valid derivations, as valid as defenestration, and they all imply their corresponding verb, regardless of whether people actually bothered to use defenestrate before the 20th century.
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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    You may not have noticed, but we're all coining new words in this thread (that some of them existed at some prior point with a different meaning is quite irrelevant in this context). I mean, it's pretty late to complain that a given word used here for jokes doesn't actually exist. Everybody here knows what fenestra means. Formally, -tion in English and -tio in Latin are normally attached to verbs, existing or implied, and you can't really separate the two. Fenestration, refenestration, infenestration etc. are all valid derivations, as valid as defenestration, and they all imply their corresponding verb, regardless of whether people actually bothered to use defenestrate before the 20th century.
    None of the "new words" used in this thread were coined in it. Most of them existed for years if not decades prior, if not necessarily in general use than among subcultures. And they were generally coined to name or clarify some concept, not to introduce confusion or to play word games, which have been the primary uses of "fenestrate" in this thread so far.

    Also, you're moving the goalposts. You said that the noun was derived from a hitherto-nonexistent verb, and then when it was pointed out that historically that was not true, that in fact the derivation was from noun to [a different] verb, shifted to pure theoretical exercise.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-08-12 at 04:03 PM.
    Those were the days, my friend! We thought they'd never end. We'd sing and dance forever and a day. We'd live the life we'd choose, we'd fight and never lose, for we were young and sure to have our way.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Fenestration would be the noun derived from the verb fenestrate, which would indeed be a static form. Although why you'd put someone on a window without throwing them in either direction is beyond me.
    You'd have to go to Amsterdam for the answer to that. I can't say more without risking rules violations.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Has V ever stated a preference for what pronoun V wants to be referred to in the comic? Like does V ever say "I prefer they/them" or anything else?

    Right now, I tend to avoid pronouns in V's case simply because I don't think V has voiced a preference in comic and the abreiviations "V" and "V's" are about as short to type as one can get.

    Light the lamp not the rat LIGHT THE LAMP NOT THE RAT!!!

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Particle_Man View Post
    Has V ever stated a preference for what pronoun V wants to be referred to in the comic? Like does V ever say "I prefer they/them" or anything else?....

    No.

    "I would have noticed it earlier, but I do not normally pay attention to pronouns"
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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Ooooo!

    This actually reminds me a thing.

    I don't remember if a point has been made already about this, but "elves" actually are not necessarily genderfluid, genderless or whatever.
    Lirian, for example, has clearly some perky eyes of her own, and Serini has no problem in using "her" to reference to Lirian.

    (And, of course, she mated with Dorukan, but that alone was not necessarily related with Lirian having a precise gender.)

    So, elves have genders (or at least some elves have tits, mate with males, and people have no doubts about addressing them with female pronouns and trying to gain access to their "magical gates".)

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    Default Re: What is V's gender?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    Ooooo!

    This actually reminds me a thing.

    I don't remember if a point has been made already about this, but "elves" actually are not necessarily genderfluid, genderless or whatever.
    Lirian, for example, has clearly some perky eyes of her own, and Serini has no problem in using "her" to reference to Lirian.

    (And, of course, she mated with Dorukan, but that alone was not necessarily related with Lirian having a precise gender.)

    So, elves have genders (or at least some elves have tits, mate with males, and people have no doubts about addressing them with female pronouns and trying to gain access to their "magical gates".)

    Yes, it's been addressed by me on page two of this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Yeah um, 'bout that:

    Veldrina (elf) has no "bumps"
    Spoiler: image of Veldrina
    Show

    but she is referred to as a priestess by a Gnome, and as her by Wreccan, which may have at first been non-Elves assigning gender to Veldrina, and maybe she's just been away from Elves long enough that she's adopted non-Elvish ways and decided to be female.

    Lirian is the only Elf in the Stickverse with "bumps" that I remember:
    Spoiler: Lirian
    Show

    other Elves look like they could be male or female to me.
    Spoiler: Team Peregrine
    Show


    Lets look at the
    Spoiler: Team Peregrine Lieutenant
    Show

    an Elf with a round bottom, so female because a square bottom means male.

    Right?

    *ahem*

    Spoiler: Miko Miyazaki
    Show

    I just can't tell with the Elves.

    But yeah, I'm going with that Vaarsuvius is being a typical Stickverse Elf, and "gendered" Elves are a minority, but we really haven't seen much on Elvish ways yet other than
    Spoiler: Inkyrius and Vaarsuvius
    Show

    My best guess is that most elves look like pre-pubescent children for far longer than humans.

    Veldrina definitely seems "girly" (a "Priestess" et cetera), and Lirian looks "womanly", square bottoms doesn't necessarily signal male (Miko is an example of a female drawn with a square bottom), but I know of no Stickverse individuals drawn with round bottoms who are explicitly male (someone please check), so the Team Peregrine Lieutenant was likely female, but s/he wasn't explicitly so (again, someone else please check).

    We just don't have enough examples.

    Maybe we'll see more of Elven culture later (like we've recently seen more of Dwarven culture), but until then...?

    What is known is what The Giant has written, and he says that he will not tell.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    My best guess is that most elves look like pre-pubescent children for far longer than humans.
    I've probably said it before, but my headcanon is that most elves are androgynous and agendered, but a small percentage of the population (~2-5%, say?) are gendered, and they face massive discrimination from the rest of elven society (not much of a leap, given their xenophobic culture), which is why Lirian ended up in a relationship with a human.

    Veldrina is a canon foreigner, so I don't think she can be counted to fit.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2018-08-13 at 09:45 AM.
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    Default Re: What is V's gender?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Yes, it's been addressed by me on page two of this thread:
    And it was a reply to one of my own post, nonetheless!
    Yeah, nevermind then.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I've probably said it before, but my headcanon is that most elves are androgynous and agendered, but a small percentage of the population (~2-5%, say?) are gendered, and they face massive discrimination from the rest of elven society (not much of a leap, given their xenophobic culture), which is why Lirian ended up in a relationship with a human.

    Veldrina is a canon foreigner, so I don't think she can be counted to fit.

    Grey Wolf

    Well that explanation could fit.

    We've seen Haley refer to the rest of The Order of the Stick besides herself and Vaarsuvius as "the boys",

    and Miko said: "I require two rooms, one for the men, and one for the women and the elf", which implies that "Elf" is a third category besides "men" and "women" as the non-humans Durkon (Dwarf), and Belkar (Halfling) are included with the "men".

    It's not much evidence for the theory, but it does fit it.

    I'd like it if we could see more on Stickverse Elves (like we've seen on Gnomes, Hobgoblins, and especially Dwarves).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    And it was a reply to one of my own post, nonetheless!
    Yeah, nevermind then.

    Eh, no worries, I forget a lot as well, it's been pointed out to me that I've posted almost the same comment to the same thread a few weeks apart. What are we gonna do, not post whatever comes to mind?

    Forget that!

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    I'd like it if we could see more on Stickverse Elves (like we've seen on Gnomes, Hobgoblins, and especially Dwarves).
    To be fair, we really haven't seen a whole lot on gnomes.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    To be fair, we really haven't seen a whole lot on gnomes.
    The story will not be returning either to Tinkertown or Elven lands. From here it's a beeline straight to the pole, and possibly off-plane from there. What we've got is all we're going to get. The only culture that might get explored in more detail from now on is the bugbears'.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2018-08-13 at 01:44 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #620
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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    The story will not be returning either to Tinker own or Elven lands. From here it's a beeline straight to the pole, and possibly off-plane from there. What we've got is all we're going to get. The only culture that might get explored in more detail from now on is the bugbears'.
    Well, we might meet the Walrus Riders we've seen so far only on Holiday Ornaments and T Shirts.
    Last edited by brian 333; 2018-08-13 at 01:52 PM.

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    The story will not be returning either to Tinkertown or Elven lands. From here it's a beeline straight to the pole, and possibly off-plane from there. What we've got is all we're going to get. The only culture that might get explored in more detail from now on is the bugbears'.
    Oh, I agree. I wasn't trying to say we would see more or I hoped we'd see more of them, just pointing out they weren't a similarly explored race.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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    Default Re: What is V's gender?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post

    Veldrina definitely seems "girly" (a "Priestess" et cetera), and Lirian looks "womanly", square bottoms doesn't necessarily signal male (Miko is an example of a female drawn with a square bottom), but I know of no Stickverse individuals drawn with round bottoms who are explicitly male (someone please check), so the Team Peregrine Lieutenant was likely female, but s/he wasn't explicitly so (again, someone else please check).
    There's a bonus strip in War & XPs where Miko is doing laundry and not wearing her usual armor. She has a round bottom there. I think in cases where women don't have round bottoms in OOTS, it's because of their clothing (usually armor) rather than the default shape of their bodies.
    "Ah! your talk, your damned philosophy!"
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    Default Re: What is V's gender?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takver View Post
    There's a bonus strip in War & XPs where Miko is doing laundry and not wearing her usual armor. She has a round bottom there. I think in cases where women don't have round bottoms in OOTS, it's because of their clothing (usually armor) rather than the default shape of their bodies.

    As may be the case with Vaarsuvius.

    Or may not!

    My point was that square bottom =/= male always (though maybe disrobed it does), and there were upthread comments that this or that aspect of appearance "proves" V's gender.

    I still say nope

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    Default Re: What is V's gender

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    Ooooo!

    This actually reminds me a thing.

    I don't remember if a point has been made already about this, but "elves" actually are not necessarily genderfluid, genderless or whatever.
    Lirian, for example, has clearly some perky eyes of her own, and Serini has no problem in using "her" to reference to Lirian.

    (And, of course, she mated with Dorukan, but that alone was not necessarily related with Lirian having a precise gender.)

    So, elves have genders (or at least some elves have tits, mate with males, and people have no doubts about addressing them with female pronouns and trying to gain access to their "magical gates".)

    Elves have sexes, hence, some elves have noticeable breasts. That humans have no doubts about using female pronouns only shows that humans have no doubts, not that the elf in question actually cares which pronouns are used.

    V's behaviour implies that elves do not have genders, i.e. no socially constructed roles people are shoved into because of their biological sex, and that V considers it rather silly that humans have genders - much like an English native speaker might consider the gendered articles of other languages silly when it is perfectly possible to use "the" for everything.


    It is possible that there's different elf races and some of them have more pronounced secondary sex characteristics (i.e. breasts and beards and so on) than others.

    I don't think we have yet seen any proof of elves actually caring which pronouns are used for them, therefore, there's no proof that there are elf tribes who have genders.

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