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  1. - Top - End - #451
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashem View Post
    Honestly, I feel like Blizz is just sore that DotA started as a modded Warcraft III map, and they got basically nothing from the fact that an entire genre was started on their platform. I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"
    That was before the merger with Activision. I dare theorize that Blizz was a lot more chill when they were their own company. I mean, they hired the guy who created the DotA game, no? They just went "We'll get the talent and we'll let him keep his creation and since he's our employee, we'll get his next ideas" or something.

  2. - Top - End - #452
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    Only because she shot first.
    I hate retcons! In the original version Greedo shot first, but The Lucas changed it because it didn't portray Hilgya as a cold-blooded murderer.

  3. - Top - End - #453
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    That was before the merger with Activision. I dare theorize that Blizz was a lot more chill when they were their own company. I mean, they hired the guy who created the DotA game, no? They just went "We'll get the talent and we'll let him keep his creation and since he's our employee, we'll get his next ideas" or something.
    Its also worth pointing out that at the time, they would have only been competing with themselves. There were no other MOBA competitors until LoL, and DOTA 2 was coming out right at the same time they were developing their own. Creating their own game would have just pulled people off of Warcraft 3.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  4. - Top - End - #454
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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashem View Post
    Honestly, I feel like Blizz is just sore that DotA started as a modded Warcraft III map, and they got basically nothing from the fact that an entire genre was started on their platform. I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"
    Uh, wasn't DoTA originally based on a StarCraft map/mission, but run in WC III? Aeon of Strife IIRC. I think that the key to making this mod was how the hero/leader was implemented in WC III with 4 skills ... and off it went.
    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    That was before the merger with Activision. I dare theorize that Blizz was a lot more chill when they were their own company. I mean, they hired the guy who created the DotA game, no? They just went "We'll get the talent and we'll let him keep his creation and since he's our employee, we'll get his next ideas" or something.
    yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Its also worth pointing out that at the time, they would have only been competing with themselves. There were no other MOBA competitors until LoL, and DOTA 2 was coming out right at the same time they were developing their own. Creating their own game would have just pulled people off of Warcraft 3.
    WC3 was already out; are you referring to one of the expansions, or WoW?
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2018-07-12 at 11:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  5. - Top - End - #455
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Blizz [...] chill
    I see what you did there.
    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    FANTASTIC! OotS-ish even in the punchline.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law


    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    For people who say "they're just words, toughen up," y'all seem to have very strong reactions to a bunch of words on a forum and webcomic.

  6. - Top - End - #456
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Uh, wasn't DoTA originally based on a StarCraft map/mission, but run in WC III? Aeon of Strife IIRC. I think that the key to making this mod was how the hero/leader was implemented in WC III with 4 skills ... and off it went. yep.

    WC3 was already out; are you referring to one of the expansions, or WoW?
    I mean a hypothetical blizzard DOTA released before LoL.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  7. - Top - End - #457
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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I mean a hypothetical blizzard DOTA released before LoL.
    Sure. I was referring to a timeline, and DoTA only happened due to the way WC 3 implemented the hero feature, so it had to post date WC 3. Fair point on the Blizz versus LoL/Riot thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  8. - Top - End - #458
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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashem View Post
    I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"
    The official entry, the Halloween-themed Extreme Candy Wars, was free...and also tried hard to replicate World of Warcraft heroes (Never playing WoW myself, I can't fully attest to that; but the weird rage/energy instead of mana on warrior/rogue does fit what I've read).

  9. - Top - End - #459
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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Sure. I was referring to a timeline, and DoTA only happened due to the way WC 3 implemented the hero feature, so it had to post date WC 3. Fair point on the Blizz versus LoL/Riot thing.
    … Yes, I know, that's my point. MOBAs as a concept didn't really take off until Warcraft 3 and the custom map DOTA. At that point, theres no competition for Blizzard. Interested people need to buy Warcraft 3 anyway, DOTA is already a complex and well done map, and the only people Blizzard would be attracting are people who are already playing a Blizzard game. Then LoL came out, and there was actual incentive to have a competing game engine, but the original DOTA was still on Warcraft 3, so they functionally had a horse in that race already. then DOTA 2 started development, and suddenly the original DOTA wasn't in blizzard's camp so much anymore, which is, not coincidentally, around the same time that Heroes of the Storm started development as Blizzard DOTA.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  10. - Top - End - #460
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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Yes, I know, that's my point. MOBAs as a concept didn't really take off until Warcraft 3 and the custom map DOTA. At that point, theres no competition for Blizzard. Interested people need to buy Warcraft 3 anyway, DOTA is already a complex and well done map, and the only people Blizzard would be attracting are people who are already playing a Blizzard game. Then LoL came out, and there was actual incentive to have a competing game engine, but the original DOTA was still on Warcraft 3, so they functionally had a horse in that race already. then DOTA 2 started development, and suddenly the original DOTA wasn't in blizzard's camp so much anymore, which is, not coincidentally, around the same time that Heroes of the Storm started development as Blizzard DOTA.
    Gotcha. Fair points all. I just found out that things are getting a bit more interesting.
    At The International 2017, Dota 2's premier championship, Valve announced Artifact, a digital collectible card game designed by Magic: The Gathering creator Richard Garfield that builds upon the existing lore of Dota and its gameplay, such as having the same heroes and featuring three lanes. Artifact is expected to be released in late 2018.
    WoTC is getting in on the act.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  11. - Top - End - #461
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    I have had fun reviving a little Starcraft in the last couple of weeks, after having heard about the Remastered edition and watching a ton of ASL videos on youtube.

    If someone wants to play a semi-friendly game with a Protoss of about 90 apm, contact me and we might arrange a duel ;-)
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    Want to see my prison tatoo?

    *Branded for double posting*
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    So, an OotS 4x isn't in the works? I was dying to invade The Western Desert.

    How about a turn-based OotS version of Axis and Allies? Or would it be more like Shogun? Well, in the south it might.

    I miss the old games from when computer gaming was new. Turn-based strategy has fully migrated to phone-apps, but there was a lot of fun and replayability in the games designed back then. The graphics are far better now, and the gameplay is much faster and smoother for those who grew up with a keyboard and a controller in their hands but, for an old guy like me, twitch-control games are an exercise in training for years to be good enough to be considered mediocre.

  13. - Top - End - #463
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    Peelee's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    So, an OotS 4x isn't in the works?
    I choose to believe there's an OotS mod for Sins of a Solar Empire.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

    Cuthalion makes great avatars. Like my Silver Dragon.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

  14. - Top - End - #464
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    Goblin_Priest's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashem View Post
    Honestly, I feel like Blizz is just sore that DotA started as a modded Warcraft III map, and they got basically nothing from the fact that an entire genre was started on their platform. I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"
    I would reckon so, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Uh, wasn't DoTA originally based on a StarCraft map/mission, but run in WC III? Aeon of Strife IIRC. I think that the key to making this mod was how the hero/leader was implemented in WC III with 4 skills ... and off it went. yep.

    WC3 was already out; are you referring to one of the expansions, or WoW?
    Hah, careful you'll hurt WC fans' feelings.

    A lot of the maps and genres often attributed to WC3 were actually pretty popular back in SC:BW, before WC3 came out. But WC3 was... more recent? And mainstream? And had a much more powerful map editor. But yea the rudimentary genre of DOTA was already present in SC. Also tower defenses, which for some reason are also attributed to WC3 often... very popular in SC:BW.
    Predictions: Xykon will turn on Redcloak, the OotS will arrive during the combat and prevent the kill, Xykon will defeat the OotS, Redcloak will destroy him before he kills them, Vaarsuvius will help Redcloak cast the ritual, the Dark One will use the Snarl to slay Hel, the world will be saved, and Goblinoids will join the other humanoids and live in peace and harmony.

  15. - Top - End - #465
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    Karabars's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Things didn't look great.
    "You know nothing, Khadgar!"

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    HalflingWizardGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I choose to believe there's an OotS mod for Sins of a Solar Empire.
    It'd almost have to be on top of the E4X mod, as that's the one that introduced hero units. Probably have to expand it to 5-6 per faction, and maybe even put it on top of Interregnum. That way you can have the Empire as Tarqin's faction, Probably Xylon's faction as the warlords, and of course the OOTS as the plucky rebels.

    Xylon of course would come as a dragon-riding Titan who mostly uses abilities that sacrifice his minions.

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