Grrl Power IV: Constantly Expanded Universe

[georgie_leech]

Perhaps it's like the Mass Relays - it was built by some lost, ancient civilisation, and they're just using it?

Whether that's the case or not, the tech exists and they have access to it. Dragon Ball Z went off the rails real fast once planet destruction became a trivial power level, and this is pretty much that in my view.

[halfeye]

Whether that's the case or not, the tech exists and they have access to it. Dragon Ball Z went off the rails real fast once planet destruction became a trivial power level, and this is pretty much that in my view.

Planet destruction is ridiculous too, but it's supreme overkill, biosphere destruction is enough by far, and that takes a lot less energy. I still say Max is totally ridiculous, and if you accept her, there is nothing in the rest of it to worry about.

[georgie_leech]

Planet destruction is ridiculous too, but it's supreme overkill, biosphere destruction is enough by far, and that takes a lot less energy. I still say Max is totally ridiculous, and if you accept her, there is nothing in the rest of it to worry about.

Right, which is implied to be what happened to the Alari homeworld there. When it's a vaguely defined threat that operates on that level, I can internalize it as raising the stakes; there are forces that you either need to find a way to deal with now, or you need to do everything in your power to avoid the notice of said forces.

When you have both A) allies operating at the same tech/power tier, and B) the ability to call them up even once for something as minor as saving a single person (even if said person is someone we care about a lot), it undercuts those stakes so hard that I can't put up any new stakes.

Like, Vehemence was really powerful once he started moving, but the problem he represented was solved by a clever understanding of both his and their own power sets and the application thereof. But apparently they always always the option of calling in the FTL cavalry if he got out of hand, so...

[HandofShadows]

Well, I'm out. Dabbler being able to access civilizations able to construct Dyson Spheres with apparently livable habitation around high energy astronomical objects officially broke the power curve for me; it's like if Freiza showed up during the Red Ribbon Army arc of Dragon Ball.

It's not a full sized Dyson Sphere. The sphere is clearly on the scale of a large space station since we can see starships at the gates. As scifi standards go it's fairly reasonable in size.

[Keltest]

Right, which is implied to be what happened to the Alari homeworld there. When it's a vaguely defined threat that operates on that level, I can internalize it as raising the stakes; there are forces that you either need to find a way to deal with now, or you need to do everything in your power to avoid the notice of said forces.

When you have both A) allies operating at the same tech/power tier, and B) the ability to call them up even once for something as minor as saving a single person (even if said person is someone we care about a lot), it undercuts those stakes so hard that I can't put up any new stakes.

Like, Vehemence was really powerful once he started moving, but the problem he represented was solved by a clever understanding of both his and their own power sets and the application thereof. But apparently they always always the option of calling in the FTL cavalry if he got out of hand, so...

What makes you think A: that Dabbler's friends are remotely responsible for this stargate sphere and B: that they would be willing to help with anything more involved than a lost team mate? They owe Dabbler a favor. That's not remotely the same thing as being willing and able to come down to Earth every time the team gets in over their heads, or indeed even able to help any more than Dabbler herself can already contribute.

[halfeye]

Right, which is implied to be what happened to the Alari homeworld there. When it's a vaguely defined threat that operates on that level, I can internalize it as raising the stakes; there are forces that you either need to find a way to deal with now, or you need to do everything in your power to avoid the notice of said forces.

When you have both A) allies operating at the same tech/power tier, and B) the ability to call them up even once for something as minor as saving a single person (even if said person is someone we care about a lot), it undercuts those stakes so hard that I can't put up any new stakes.

Like, Vehemence was really powerful once he started moving, but the problem he represented was solved by a clever understanding of both his and their own power sets and the application thereof. But apparently they always always the option of calling in the FTL cavalry if he got out of hand, so...

However, you don't think Max's powerset is totally ridiculous?

I'm going to recommend "Star smashers of the galaxy rangers" by Harry Harrison (no stars get smashed) and "Cities in Flight" by James Blish, with a side order of "Whipping Star" by Frank Herbert (the title is a spoiler).

[georgie_leech]

What makes you think A: that Dabbler's friends are remotely responsible for this stargate sphere and B: that they would be willing to help with anything more involved than a lost team mate? They owe Dabbler a favor. That's not remotely the same thing as being willing and able to come down to Earth every time the team gets in over their heads, or indeed even able to help any more than Dabbler herself can already contribute.

I didn't say that they were responsible for it, just that they have access to the tech needed to use FTL travel. And apparently owed Dabbler at least 1 favour. The OotS would have been slightly undercut if Durkon, at any point, had the ability to directly get Thor physically involved in a conflict, rather than just having powers originally stemming from him. Even if it's explicitly a one time thing.

Edit:

However, you don't think Max's powerset is totally ridiculous?

I'm going to recommend "Star smashers of the galaxy rangers" by Harry Harrison (no stars get smashed) and "Cities in Flight" by James Blish, with a side order of "Whipping Star" by Frank Herbert (the title is a spoiler).

I did have a couple problems with Max, but only in the "Superman warps the power curve a little" sense. I don't have problems with high power-tier stories, I have problems when you try to have a lower power tier story that ends up stumbling into the higher power tiers.

[halfeye]

I didn't say that they were responsible for it, just that they have access to the tech needed to use FTL travel. And apparently owed Dabbler at least 1 favour. The OotS would have been slightly undercut if Durkon, at any point, had the ability to directly get Thor physically involved in a conflict, rather than just having powers originally stemming from him.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html

"... Nice shooting sir."

That's not involved? It was early in the comic, but it seems to me it was also involved.

[georgie_leech]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html

"... Nice shooting sir."

That's not involved? It was early in the comic, but it seems to me it was also involved.

Durkon's spell, not Thor, but yeah, that was a scene that undercut things for me. It was also called out immediately thereafter, and occurred after an even earlier strip parodying what Thor's involvement would look like. I have an easier time accepting things that are played for laughs over things meant to be taken seriously, as it turns out.

[Traab]

I dont look on it as any worse than finding out the supernatural is real. I mean we already knew about the council, we also already knew aliens are explicitly a thing that exists. Therefore ftl is also a thing that has implicitly existed for large portions of the comic as there is no other rational way to explain aliens reaching earth for space tourism or whatever without it. So aside from a new location for sydney to space travel to, acting as a waypoint most likely, this doesnt really change much for the setting. I doubt very much we will see many threats of the "need firepower capable of destroying planets" tier in the comic so whether they use ray guns or can fire photonic energy from their golden hands the same end effect is in place, ash is all that remains.

[Dragonus45]

Well, I'm out. Dabbler being able to access civilizations able to construct Dyson Spheres with apparently livable habitation around high energy astronomical objects officially broke the power curve for me; it's like if Freiza showed up during the Red Ribbon Army arc of Dragon Ball.

A Dyson sphere is like, the most basic level of intergalactic community tech to have hanging round. I would be startled to find out that they didn’t have any at all given the knowledge aliens exist and occasionally visit the planet. I’m surprised to think that this would be a line after all the other stuff that has happened to far.

[georgie_leech]

A Dyson sphere is like, the most basic level of intergalactic community tech to have hanging round. I would be startled to find out that they didn’t have any at all given the knowledge aliens exist and occasionally visit the planet. I’m surprised to think that this would be a line after all the other stuff that has happened to far.

Dyson sphere's in general sure; a dyson sphere around a pulsar or magnetar on the other hand, slightly less so. They're extreme objects in every sense of the word.

[lord_khaine]

I dont look on it as any worse than finding out the supernatural is real. I mean we already knew about the council, we also already knew aliens are explicitly a thing that exists. Therefore ftl is also a thing that has implicitly existed for large portions of the comic as there is no other rational way to explain aliens reaching earth for space tourism or whatever without it. So aside from a new location for sydney to space travel to, acting as a waypoint most likely, this doesnt really change much for the setting. I doubt very much we will see many threats of the "need firepower capable of destroying planets" tier in the comic so whether they use ray guns or can fire photonic energy from their golden hands the same end effect is in place, ash is all that remains.

And we still also do need evidence of Dabblers friends being ready to do anything besides drop by and pick up lost earthlings.
Heck, for all we know it might be a crime to reveal your spaceship to pre-warp civilisations.

Dyson sphere's in general sure; a dyson sphere around a pulsar or magnetar on the other hand, slightly less so. They're extreme objects in every sense of the word.

Yes.. because Halo is also perfectly suited for identifying what a dyson sphere is build around..

[georgie_leech]

Yes.. because Halo is also perfectly suited for identifying what a dyson sphere is build around..

Touché. whitetextofposting

[HandofShadows]

Yes.. because Halo is also perfectly suited for identifying what a dyson sphere is build around..

She hangs a big lampshade on her expertise as well.

[Onyavar]

Huh. Unless those ships coming out if the stargate in Panel two, are super menacing carrier towers like the one that Sydney just fought, this is just a smaller-than-deathstar space station around an artficial power core.

Even if those spaceships are like the tower, Fracture should most probably be artificial, and not a pulsar. Were we looking at a pulsar, these spaceships have the size of planets.

Um, anyone remembers the Xevoarchy? Could this here be one of their administrative centers? And could this be less of a UN/federation, but more a tyrannical regime that Earth (and its refugee aliens) would be wise to stay away from?

[lord_khaine]

Um, anyone remembers the Xevoarchy? Could this here be one of their administrative centers? And could this be less of a UN/federation, but more a tyrannical regime that Earth (and its refugee aliens) would be wise to stay away from?

Going by its description given in 640, then no they are not a tyrannical regime. More a galatic scale police force.
Whose main mission seems to be preventing large scale wars.

[Lamech]

Even if those spaceships are like the tower, Fracture should most probably be artificial, and not a pulsar. Were we looking at a pulsar, these spaceships have the size of planets.

Pulsars are tiny compared to planets. You could fit something like a billion of them inside Pluto. Well not really, since you'd get a black hole, but if you encased them in gravity negating, thin, invulnerable Dyson Spheres you could get a billion of them inside Pluto.

Spoiler: Maths

Show

Neutron Star Radius=10km
Pluto Radius=1100km-ish

On that note, if you have portal tech, its very possible building a Dyson Sphere around a pulsar is comparatively easy compared to say building one around a star like Sol. A portal could potentially block all gravity, all particles and all radiation from a Pulsar by either sending it elsewhere, or just back at the pulsar. Of course, such tech could also be abused in other hilarious ways, some of which would easily allow you to destroy a planet. (Of course, if the portal has limits either or both of these might not apply.)

If I had to guess Fracture is probably built around a fracture in space-time or something.

[Traab]

Ok, im not happy with todays comic really. The coincidence factor is too high for my preference. I was hoping for more "deus is doing his own thing" arc than "Wacky hijinks as deus stumbles into sydney and "saves" her." I mean, its still possible for that to happen, and I suppose it could be amusing if we have a bunch of near misses as neither ever realizes the other was there, or at least not till deus gets the report afterwards. But still, seriously? He just happens to open a portal to the location sydney just happened to wind up at? Of course, that still doesnt include any sort of time changes and whatnot so in retrospect, who knows whats going on. For all we know sydney will stumble over a statue to deus, the new lord and god of fracture point station when he took it over 50 years "ago"

[Calemyr]

Ok, im not happy with todays comic really. The coincidence factor is too high for my preference. I was hoping for more "deus is doing his own thing" arc than "Wacky hijinks as deus stumbles into sydney and "saves" her." I mean, its still possible for that to happen, and I suppose it could be amusing if we have a bunch of near misses as neither ever realizes the other was there, or at least not till deus gets the report afterwards. But still, seriously? He just happens to open a portal to the location sydney just happened to wind up at? Of course, that still doesnt include any sort of time changes and whatnot so in retrospect, who knows whats going on. For all we know sydney will stumble over a statue to deus, the new lord and god of fracture point station when he took it over 50 years "ago"

It's not really that surprising. Both threads were kicked off by the same event: Sciona trying to use the upgraded Braneripper to go home, and the ensuing explosion destroying the portal (and Sciona's base). From then it's just a matter of Deus crafting and Halo grinding. It's not like these were two random events that just happened to coincide. Granted, there's a bit of Deus Ex of Machina in play, but it's just a matter of specific timing of two related events. The destination is a bit more blatant, though, but even that makes logical sense. Dyson would make a logical entry on Halo's wormhole bookmarks, and would make a logical location for a man with more money than he knows what to do with to start on his first (probably) galactic shopping spree. It's a hub capitol.

Personally, I am curious where this leads. We are leading to a cluster cuddle where Halo, Cora, and Deus are all heading to the same place at (roughly) the same time. However this turns out will ultimately be good for Deus and get Halo home, but should lead to interesting consequences. Possibly having two humans on a station like this could have Earth upgraded from "Hot Tourist Spot" to "Fledgling Galactic Society". Possibly Deus and Halo will come to an understanding. Possibly Halo will gain alien knowledge or tech that will help her out (most likely funded by Deus). Most likely Deus and Cora will end up in bed together (Dave B has made multiple comments about Cora staffing her ship with beefcake and having things in common with Dabbler), possibly in more ways than one.

It would be interesting if Halo comes home conflicted - is Deus "Evil with good PR" or "Batman with the sense to use his money as a weapon"? Seriously, Bruce Wayne could do far more good than Batman if he put his wits and resources to better use. (I know he does in some comics, but he rarely does in any other form of media.) So you end up with Halo and Maxima both stuck in this love-hate dynamic with Deus (which, at least in Halo's case, is platonic). And this is the best opportunity to do so - Halo is isolated from Maxima's prejudice for a brief moment.

I'm just envisioning a Gollum/Smeagol conversation between Halo/Sydney, now.
"He's Evil, precious. Capital-E evil!"
"But he's Batman! Real life, honest to Zod Batman!"
"He can't throw a punch."
"He can pay people do do it for him."
"Would Batman pay Superman to fight crime, precious?"
"Of course not! Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free, amirite?"

[Traab]

Yeah but sciona opened a portal to another world entirely, and then sydney traveled through a wormhole to reach this location. What are the odds that deus would just happen to open a portal to the exact same location that sydney just happened to travel to when there is a very vast universe out there (was going to say galaxy but we cant even be sure she is in the milky way still) There is also deus even knowing this world exists. I mean, its not impossible he has alien as well as extradimensional help despite us not seeing any as of yet but even so, again, its very random. Now, had deus gone to scionas world that would make sense. I could see him managing to reverse engineer her portal creation and using that as an excuse to do all sorts of things in addition to "saving" sydney for one of his many multi layered plans, but this is an actual coincidence as he has literally no way of knowing sydney will be here (again, depending on whatever odd space/time shenanigans we never got cleared up)

Bottom line, if he was doing this on purpose it would be more acceptable I think. But the fact that its an actual coincidence is whats bugging me.

[HandofShadows]

The Fracture seems to be a major hub of travel and commerce owing to the stargates. Since Dues is out to buy a number of different things going to such a place is logical. For Sydney, the previous owner of the spheres could well have visited there a number of times because it's a natural stopover.

[Lamech]

The location of fracture thing is definitely a bit high on the coincidence meter, but its not that improbable. Hell, both going to a giant travel hub would be less of a coincidence then the pair meeting in the giant travel hub randomly. Of course, they could easily meet non-randomly. For example, Sydney could get directed to the new Earth gate and bump into Deus.

[Forum Explorer]

Yeah but sciona opened a portal to another world entirely, and then sydney traveled through a wormhole to reach this location. What are the odds that deus would just happen to open a portal to the exact same location that sydney just happened to travel to when there is a very vast universe out there (was going to say galaxy but we cant even be sure she is in the milky way still) There is also deus even knowing this world exists. I mean, its not impossible he has alien as well as extradimensional help despite us not seeing any as of yet but even so, again, its very random. Now, had deus gone to scionas world that would make sense. I could see him managing to reverse engineer her portal creation and using that as an excuse to do all sorts of things in addition to "saving" sydney for one of his many multi layered plans, but this is an actual coincidence as he has literally no way of knowing sydney will be here (again, depending on whatever odd space/time shenanigans we never got cleared up)

Bottom line, if he was doing this on purpose it would be more acceptable I think. But the fact that its an actual coincidence is whats bugging me.

I don't think he's going to the Fracture by coincidence. Also we've got hints that Deus might have extradimensional help in Vale. She's certainly not human, and actually looks a lot like that Soul Battery.

[Traab]

I don't think he's going to the Fracture by coincidence. Also we've got hints that Deus might have extradimensional help in Vale. She's certainly not human, and actually looks a lot like that Soul Battery.

Sorry, I wasnt clear, I meant we know he has extradimensional help from vale but we havent seen any direct alien help. I mean, there was sciona but that was all about the booty call, not to make her an information source. And going to the fracture isnt the coincidence, its going to the fracture where he is likely to bump into a galaxy crossing sydney who just so happens to have arrived there too. But then again, we still dont know what was screwed up by the portal so for all we know, sydney might roll around main street and bump into a deus statue from when he conquered the fracture 25 years ago. Same world, different point in time in other words.

[Vogie]

On top of that, there's still the question of where Halo's Orbs came from. If Deus did something to alert someone on Fracture, who then dispatches to Earth, and "crashes" (before or after doing what they came for), there's a high chance that is why Deus is well aware of where he's going, to the point of bringing along items to go shopping there.

We don't know where the portal creator came from, either. It was in the vault, sure, but where was it PRIOR to being captured and placed in the vault.

There's also a possibility that portals can only go to a set number of locations due to reasons - what Halo thinks is a "location history" may actually be a list of predetermined locations that smaller-than-starship portals can go to.

[Traab]

On top of that, there's still the question of where Halo's Orbs came from. If Deus did something to alert someone on Fracture, who then dispatches to Earth, and "crashes" (before or after doing what they came for), there's a high chance that is why Deus is well aware of where he's going, to the point of bringing along items to go shopping there.

We don't know where the portal creator came from, either. It was in the vault, sure, but where was it PRIOR to being captured and placed in the vault.

There's also a possibility that portals can only go to a set number of locations due to reasons - what Halo thinks is a "location history" may actually be a list of predetermined locations that smaller-than-starship portals can go to.

But the portal making device is two different artifacts welded together. The impression I got was that they werent like the infinity gems being combined on the gauntlet, they were like sticking a bump stock on a mortar launcher to make it fire full auto.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There's a lot of unspoken assumptions in here. First, where was it ever established that time travel has occurred in relation to the portal Sciona made? The closest I can see is a bunch of dithering about Harem's line about finding more than four others once she got plugged back into the network. For all we know, she simply generated a new 'fifth' when one of her nodes was gone, and the entire collective developed a massive screaming migraine from the overload once they had both the old fifth and new fifth running at the same time that kept up until one was pruned. Dave has not shown us much of anything besides Halo for the last few months.

Second, just because some characters are on the same moon-sized base at possibly the same time doesn't mean they will meet. Rules of dramatic necessity say it's likely, true, but it isn't guaranteed.

Third, way to sell Halo short, guys. Maybe instead of this being yet another edition of guy saves girl, we'll get to enjoy girl saves guy. Heck, that'd be worth it just for the look on Deus' face.

[Sean Mirrsen]

We do strongly suspect some time travel happened. For Sydney, it has been at most several hours since being pulled through the portal. She did her experiments in space, blasted some space fighters, cut up the mecha-fluthlu guy, shot the cyclops guy in the eye, then ran away from orbital bombardment and then purchased her upgrades and went through the wormhole. She still shows no signs of being tired out or particularly sleepy, so for her not much time has passed.

On the other hand, the Skybreaker was recovered by Vale late that night, and she took it by conventional aircraft to wherever Galytn is, then by car to Deus's powerplants, which are not even complete by the time she gets there. The second tower is just a base at that point, and half its solar collectors are missing. We see both towers complete by the time Deus steps through to the Fracture, so at least a couple days will have passed by that point. If we see that Sydney and Deus are on Fracture at the same time - which the current setup is hinting at, we'll definitely know that time travel was involved.

[halfeye]

We do strongly suspect some time travel happened. For Sydney, it has been at most several hours since being pulled through the portal. She did her experiments in space, blasted some space fighters, cut up the mecha-fluthlu guy, shot the cyclops guy in the eye, then ran away from orbital bombardment and then purchased her upgrades and went through the wormhole. She still shows no signs of being tired out or particularly sleepy, so for her not much time has passed.

On the other hand, the Skybreaker was recovered by Vale late that night, and she took it by conventional aircraft to wherever Galytn is, then by car to Deus's powerplants, which are not even complete by the time she gets there. The second tower is just a base at that point, and half its solar collectors are missing. We see both towers complete by the time Deus steps through to the Fracture, so at least a couple days will have passed by that point. If we see that Sydney and Deus are on Fracture at the same time - which the current setup is hinting at, we'll definitely know that time travel was involved.

Time travel might have happened, but so far as I am concerned I'm not sure of it. I'll wait an see what the story says about that, and if it isn't mentioned at all I'll probably conclude it didn't happen.