Grrl Power IV: Constantly Expanded Universe

[HandofShadows]

Well, this is an interesting turn.

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A few survivors from the planet that Sydney just left. Going to be a moment of growth maybe?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, this is an interesting turn.

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A few survivors from the planet that Sydney just left. Going to be a moment of growth maybe?

I think she's going to slowly walk up behind and try to think of something to say that isn't going to be immediately offensive (like her attempted jokes upon discovering the state of the Alari homeworld).

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And then the kid is going to notice her and say something to her in Alari, causing her to reflexively respond in english, which prompts the mother to translate what the kid said. Cue gasp.

[Rogar Demonblud]

One thing to consider, AV, is that the Fracture might have a system to shunt portaling people to designated arrival areas. The Earthlings just don't know that is to facilitate reporting to Customs, so they didn't.

[HandofShadows]

Vale would know though and make sure to keep Dues out of trouble.

[AvatarVecna]

@AvatarVecna about exploiting it financially. Well earth has no tech to offer a society with easy spaceflight probably can mine planetary bodies, that doesn't make resources worthless, but worth much less. Art is an option if the intergalactic market is interested. If they have slavery maybe that too. but still after a certain tech level a low tech world has little to offer so that might make enforcement easier.

I don't imagine we have much techology aliens would want, but the best resources we have as a species are probably 1) labor, and 2) what's buried beneath the ground that we didn't put there. And it's not like FTL/Dyson-capable species would need to put a ton of effort into offering us something that we'd throw resources at trying to get for ourselves. Like, say that oil isn't worth much as an energy source, but there's some Dabbler-esque mad alien scientist out there wanting to use oil to resurrect dinosaurs - and we have a lot of oil but we're kinda attached to it. Well, they offer us slightly better battery technology than we already have in exchange for all the oil we can part with, to the point that they're solving our energy crisis, and we'll throw oil at them like there's no tomorrow. Or maybe a similar plan involving some other market putting people to work for unrealized alien overlords masquerading as businessmen. But then you'd think if something like either of those situations were happening to a degree that any economic benefit would be worth the investment for the aliens, you'd think it'd be affecting the world economy on a large enough scale to get mentioned as part of the setting weirdness, even if the source isn't really explained. But without that even hinted at a tiny bit, we're just left with "there's lots of FTL-capable aliens casually visiting for tourist reasons and not affecting the local economy in any significant way because Prime Directive?" I dunno, it feels really weird to me.

One thing to consider, AV, is that the Fracture might have a system to shunt portaling people to designated arrival areas. The Earthlings just don't know that is to facilitate reporting to Customs, so they didn't.

That actually sounds like a brilliant feature and deals with the near-absurdity of both Sydney and Deus arriving on the same block as an English-ish sign.

[Traab]

Im not sure why basic minerals wouldnt be valuable. Yes they can asteroid mine for them, we can mine for them on our planet, that doesnt make them useless. As for tech I agree, chances are our level of tech is good mainly for novelty value, but basic supplies of resources are likely still fungible goods. They may value different ones than we do for whatever reason, but they will still value them.

[lord_khaine]

Im not sure why basic minerals wouldnt be valuable. Yes they can asteroid mine for them, we can mine for them on our planet, that doesnt make them useless. As for tech I agree, chances are our level of tech is good mainly for novelty value, but basic supplies of resources are likely still fungible goods. They may value different ones than we do for whatever reason, but they will still value them.

Well.. i think the main idea is that at this level of technology, the amount we can mine is just simply not going to be relevant compared to whats likely produced as a byproduct of mining for rare minerals.
I dont think they mine astroids at this stage. I think its more likely that they either "eat" them, or collect Space Dust

[Traab]

Well.. i think the main idea is that at this level of technology, the amount we can mine is just simply not going to be relevant compared to whats likely produced as a byproduct of mining for rare minerals.
I dont think they mine astroids at this stage. I think its more likely that they either "eat" them, or collect Space Dust

I dunno, I mean theoretically they could be at that level, but that may just be over-complicating things. Lets take star wars as an example, they still run extensive mining operations, whether for minerals or gas. Its entirely reasonable for an advanced space faring civilization to still need the basic minerals metals and gasses they require for every possible variety of uses.

[Rogar Demonblud]

True, but those are available for trivial effort in an asteroid belt and Oort cloud, with no need to deal with the twin hassles of a gravity well and an indigenous population.

[lord_khaine]

And lets be honest. Star Wars are closer to space fantasy than to science fiction
As such, in a lot of places its horribly primitive.

[Traab]

And lets be honest. Star Wars are closer to space fantasy than to science fiction
As such, in a lot of places its horribly primitive.

This is true, im merely pointing out that you dont have to be unneeding of resources to be an intergalactic capable community. There are plenty of other examples. Star trek for one. Half of voyager is spent needing to gather supplies, food, fuel, repair material, etc. I know, I know, voyager sucks, but that doesnt change the fact that the magic cure all replicators cant handle everything. Much of the federation may be a post scarcity utopia where they dont even need currency, but the rest of the galaxy isnt, hell lets leave voyager and go to deep space nine where we learn the entire cultural backbone of the ferengi is the Great Material Continuum. Trade is life, profit is all, and they have need of just about anything because according to their outlook, someone somewhere needs whatever you have to offer.

Thats both of the two mainstays people think of when they think sci fi. Both have a robust economy, both engage in plenty of trade, both require raw materials to make the things they sell. Deus could go to either and turn a profit. And we have absolutely no reason to think the grrl power universe will be any different.

[HandofShadows]

IIRC with Voyager there wasn't enough power to run the replicators except for the most important things and that the system wasn't running properly. Either it had been damaged or was still having the bugs worked out.

[lord_khaine]

Thats both of the two mainstays people think of when they think sci fi. Both have a robust economy, both engage in plenty of trade, both require raw materials to make the things they sell. Deus could go to either and turn a profit. And we have absolutely no reason to think the grrl power universe will be any different.

But that does mean that the Ferengi in part trade because its a religion for them.
And in part because they dont as i recall have replicator technology.

We also do have reason to think it will be different in the GP universe. For a start the authors musing on how a low technology culture dont really have anything to offer a extremely advanced one.
Besides information, like entertainment or schematics. Perhaps bio tech.

But raw materials less so. Deus would be like a kid selling strawberries from his garden besides a supermarket. Because there guys clearly is at that tech level. In some ways they are above Star Trek level tech.
At least when it comes to enginering. And space travel.

Of course, whats really funny is that since earth is apperently a turist trap, then earth money does have some value.

[Traab]

But that does mean that the Ferengi in part trade because its a religion for them.
And in part because they dont as i recall have replicator technology.

We also do have reason to think it will be different in the GP universe. For a start the authors musing on how a low technology culture dont really have anything to offer a extremely advanced one.
Besides information, like entertainment or schematics. Perhaps bio tech.

But raw materials less so. Deus would be like a kid selling strawberries from his garden besides a supermarket. Because there guys clearly is at that tech level. In some ways they are above Star Trek level tech.
At least when it comes to enginering. And space travel.

Of course, whats really funny is that since earth is apperently a turist trap, then earth money does have some value.

Yes, but the ferengi dont trade solely or even primarily, with each other. They trade with everyone in the quadrant. That means the rest of the setting also has desire for trade goods of all sorts. Of course, for all we know, as earth is a tourist trap, deus is using his knowledge of the trinkets they tend to bring back to sell his own set. "This is genuine unaltered mini flags of the near 200 nations on earth! How bizarre that they have more governments than the galactic community has species amirite?!"

[HandofShadows]

Where is it said Earth is a tourist trap as opposed to a minor tourist destination?

[sihnfahl]

I don't imagine we have much techology aliens would want, but the best resources we have as a species are probably 1) labor

Depending on their tech level, robots with SI, not a full AI. For menial work, a small material expense for a large return; heck, we do it ourselves with even the basic robots we've designed.

2) what's buried beneath the ground that we didn't put there

And requires a planetary environment to form. Basic elements are abundant, as noted, in space. No gravity wells. The issues would be related to heat dissipation if they didn't have some high tech means of separating the elements from the rock they're embedded in, then refining. And alloying. Space is not a very efficient medium for heat dumping.

So, things that form via planetary processes (volcanoes, gravity, pressure, oxygen-dependent reactions, etc).

Now, what's another thing that can be traded? Foodstuffs. Yes, you can have large hydroponics in space, but inhabitable planets have abundance of space for horticulture. And animal husbandry. Foods that will only grow in the specific environment of their planetary origin. Those would be valuable to species who can consume said foods.

Heck, look at the black market for Romulan Ale prior to the legalization ... a Ferengi trader, for an appropriate markup, would make a killing there.

Using the ST analogy, a Ferengi could make a good, reliable income on providing foodstuffs for planets that don't have as much arable land, or for foodstuffs that cannot be grown / raised economically (or at all). ST:TOS touched on this a bit with the episode 'The Trouble with Tribbles'...

[Sean Mirrsen]

Where is it said Earth is a tourist trap as opposed to a minor tourist destination?

I don't think "tourist trap" has been said verbatim, but at the very least it's been said to be "an attractive vacation spot for alien tourism because the visitors don't need to manage their own disguise tech", specifically because of the Veil. Whereas on a trip to any other pre-FTL civilization you'd have to procure and manage an effective disguise, which incurs costs both monetary and logistical, for a trip to Earth you don't necessarily have to even have access to any disguise tech, the location provides its own global enchantment. Cheaper and less fussy is always a plus for a vacation plan, plus it allows easy indefinite stay since it requires no upkeep.

[Lamech]

Besides information, like entertainment or schematics. Perhaps bio tech.

I have a feeling Deus is going to hoover up all the (relatively) easily acquired info and sell it for a high price. Which in turn will likely net him more wealth than everything on Earth.


Honestly, though Earth has plenty to offer "advanced" societies.

1) Souls. 2) Mana 3) More souls. 4) Supers and super blood. 5) A large ecology of supernaturals. 6) Did I mention Souls? 7) An entire vault full of powerful artifacts including at least two Sciona couldn't easily replicate. 8) Seriously, supers. Did you see what Sydney did to those stupidly powerful aliens?

[AvatarVecna]

8) Seriously, supers. Did you see what Sydney did to those stupidly powerful aliens?

A slight counterpoint to this one: now that Sydney's orb's Universal Positioning System apparently...exists...it's pretty probable that her powers are extraterrestrial in nature. I think it's implied that Maxima's are as well (that the rock she got 'em from came from space?), and we know for sure that Dabbler's do at least partially, so that's three of the most powerful supers in the comic thus far.

[HandofShadows]

1) Souls. 2) Mana 3) More souls. 4) Supers and super blood. 5) A large ecology of supernaturals. 6) Did I mention Souls? 7) An entire vault full of powerful artifacts including at least two Sciona couldn't easily replicate. 8) Seriously, supers. Did you see what Sydney did to those stupidly powerful aliens?

Actually you gave some good reasons why most aliens would want to stay the heck away from Earth if they have hostile intent. Any invasion force looking to take over Earth would not come back in one piece, if it came back at all. To take Earth you would probably have to expend a lot more resources than it would be worth.

[Traab]

Actually you gave some good reasons why most aliens would want to stay the heck away from Earth if they have hostile intent. Any invasion force looking to take over Earth would not come back in one piece, if it came back at all. To take Earth you would probably have to expend a lot more resources than it would be worth.

Dabbler covered that in her own introduction to sydney as an alien.

[Lamech]

A slight counterpoint to this one: now that Sydney's orb's Universal Positioning System apparently...exists...it's pretty probable that her powers are extraterrestrial in nature. I think it's implied that Maxima's are as well (that the rock she got 'em from came from space?), and we know for sure that Dabbler's do at least partially, so that's three of the most powerful supers in the comic thus far.

True, but none of them (except maybe Sydney) are capable of standing up to a charged V.

Actually you gave some good reasons why most aliens would want to stay the heck away from Earth if they have hostile intent. Any invasion force looking to take over Earth would not come back in one piece, if it came back at all. To take Earth you would probably have to expend a lot more resources than it would be worth.

Yeah, obviously don't try invading. You can try trade and a lot of stuff probably allows for a good profit. I bet you could find a lot of people who don't believe in souls and could be convinced to sell them for a low price. Super blood and super research subjects could easily be valuable enough you could easily end up paying the supers several star systems worth of cash in total and come out ahead. Etc.

[lord_khaine]

True, but none of them (except maybe Sydney) are capable of standing up to a charged V.

I really dont think Sydney stand a chance there either. She were newer subject to the full brunt of his anger.
But vehemence kinda is an interesting case, his power level fluctuate rather wildly.

Yeah, obviously don't try invading. You can try trade and a lot of stuff probably allows for a good profit. I bet you could find a lot of people who don't believe in souls and could be convinced to sell them for a low price. Super blood and super research subjects could easily be valuable enough you could easily end up paying the supers several star systems worth of cash in total and come out ahead. Etc.

Hmm.. this does both emply that souls are actually useful for anything. As well as that Archon/Twilight Council wont come down on you like a ton of bricks for that scam.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Sydney actually uses her brain.

Yes, I'm shocked as well.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Wow, Sydney actually uses real words to talk to someone. Shocked again.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Wow.

Imagine if that device scans for the user's food preferences.

Imagine if it can then actually come up with food matching said preferences.

[The Glyphstone]

Wow.

Imagine if that device scans for the user's food preferences.

Imagine if it can then actually come up with food matching said preferences.

Resulting in Sydney earning a lifetime ban from the Fracture, because her preferred foods are spicy enough to count as lethal weapons by interstellar law.

[Forum Explorer]

Wow.

Imagine if that device scans for the user's food preferences.

Imagine if it can then actually come up with food matching said preferences.

Sadly it always seems to produce something that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.

[DataNinja]

Sadly it always seems to produce something that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.

Share and enjoy!

[Lapak]

Sadly it always seems to produce something that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.

At least then she'd only be a spare Improbability Drive away from attempting random teleports as a method to get back home.

Given the setting, I'm sure that there's one kicking around she can borrow.