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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Also watch out for people who are watching you closely for signs that they can use to decide that you're the wrong sort of player.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Also watch out for people who are watching you closely for signs that they can use to decide that you're the wrong sort of player.
    Hey, to judge is to be human. At least for me, since a lot of the games I've been in were one-shots with total strangers, watching for things like this has helped me figure out when I need to try to steer a game back on track and what I need to do to avoid disruptions with the group in question.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Pex's Avatar

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Players who refuse to tell other players their character's name let alone class or race or other get to know you/what can you do so we can play well together trivia.

    Players who keep party treasure to themselves.

    Players who run off to have their own solo encounters. This has nothing to do with scouting and reporting back.

    Players who constantly pass notes to the DM even if they don't say or mean anything to be mysterious.

    Players who learn important information and refuse to share it with the party.

    Players who pompously tsk tsk when other PCs are in a pickle.

    Players who refuse to help other PCs when they are in a pickle.

    Players who help other PCs when they are in a pickle but pompously exclaim what idiots they are they need to be saved again.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Lord Raziere's Avatar

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    My personal warning signs about for other players are:
    "My character has only one weakness and I'm not telling you what it is, otherwise they're invincible"
    "My character can shapeshift into literally anything. ANYTHING"
    "My character is unable to die."
    "My character is a master of all the X's of Y"
    "fantasy races are pointless, just play a human."
    "I hate special snowflakes"
    "I don't like anime."

    because chances are if your too focused on being powerful I won't be able to give you a challenge, and if your too against my more fantastical aspects of what I want to play, your not going to like my games because they're all about being fantastical.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  5. - Top - End - #65

    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Enjoys playing D&D.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Rerem115 View Post
    Hey, to judge is to be human. At least for me, since a lot of the games I've been in were one-shots with total strangers, watching for things like this has helped me figure out when I need to try to steer a game back on track and what I need to do to avoid disruptions with the group in question.
    Yup. But it's worthwhile remembering that to be excessively judgmental is equally human.

    Of course we will judge other players. But while doing it, we should remember that we have flaws as well. This can help us be more charitable about their flaws, and perhaps make it easier to find common ground.

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    This sounds like a fascinating story.
    I think it was. Sadly, I'm too senile to remember the details, but, IIRC, a Playgrounder, um, discovered that their birth gender didn't match their, um... psychological gender? I don't know the words here... through playing cross-gender characters, and, suddenly, so much of their life and depression made sense?

    Well, that's the horribly mangled way I remember it, and I certainly remember the phrase "saved my life" being involved, which I wasn't certain how literally to take.

    Yeah, apologies to whichever playgrounder's story I'm mangling, but that's as good as "left a huge impression" works out on this poor senile mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koo Rehtorb View Post
    Enjoys playing D&D.
    This would be the funniest answer imaginable if I weren't afraid that you were serious.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Things from games I've been in:

    * Anyone who brags repeatedly about how well they know a system or lore-
    it's one thing if they're just talking about it, but if they're bragging about how good they are at optimizing, how comprehensive their knowledge is, etc. then I've found: A. They aren't and B. They're going to be rude to newer players and/or have trouble listening to the GM.

    In at least one memorable example, I played with someone who went on about how well they knew VtM lore, in particular one specific clan. I later had a different player who understood the clan and the lore better after a 5-minute explanation from the GM, the girl had never even picked up a Vampire book.

    * People who overshare ooc- most are drama magnets, whether that means creating it at the table or constantly dragging it in from somewhere else

    * People who respond to being called out on bad behavior by offering flimsy excuses or playing the victim- Everyone screws up sometimes- metagames a bit, won't shut up, etc. But those who can't admit it and move on will likely be trouble. should be obvious, but I've gamed with a player that justified using metagame knowledge IC with "but I'm going to put ranks in that skill next time I level up!"

    * People who seem to be trying to "win"- success is cool. We all love success. But watch out for players who seem to think it's a competition between them and the GM, or them and the other players, unless that's the presmise the game was operating under.
    Last edited by AshfireMage; 2018-06-27 at 01:56 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    SamuraiGirl

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Well, that's the horribly mangled way I remember it, and I certainly remember the phrase "saved my life" being involved, which I wasn't certain how literally to take.
    Given the context of this, probably pretty damn literally...

    (If you care to know, generally "assigned gender" (As in, assigned at birth by some doctor saying "It's a boy") and "actual/true gender" are the terms I see used most often in the respective circles. Tons of different terms circulating, yours are generally fine as well )

    Generall, while I used to be strongly against the idea, my exposure to different people and ideas has made me wayyyy more open about it.

    Where my first exposure was my pubescent sister playing a guy in about the same way you usually see horror stories about teenage boys playing women, growing older (for a given value of "older" in comparison with some people here...) has given me plenty good examples. And appreciation for the good things it can bring.

    Getting to know people for whom "cross gender" begged the question of "which would that even be" or "at the day of creation, or do I swap characters then?" also rather quickly cured me of any assumptions that forbidding crossgender characters was more than a figleaf fix for a problem that needs to be tackled way elsewhere.

    In fact, way more a sign of a problem player, ime? Inability to differentiate character and player gender. Or, in some cases, character gender and percieved player gender...

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    On crossplaying, I tend to ask people to play their gender IRL. I do the same thing, simply because when you hear a deep, bassy man voice playing a gemale character or the opposite, it pulls me out a little.

    I certainly wouldn't outright forbid it, but it'd be a "If possible, you're a dude, please play a dude or get real good at female voices." (Note: I've never gamed IRL with someone who was assigned a gender different to their actual one, so that's never been an issue for me. Were it to come up, I'd stick to the guideline-if you're a lady, play a lady; if you're a dude, play a dude; matching their ACTUAL gender, not assigned.)

    In PbP games or text-based games or in any other type of game where I can't hear voices, go nuts. It doesn't affect my suspension of disbelief in the slightest if there's a woman behind the keyboard typing out a man's words, or vice versa.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  11. - Top - End - #71

    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    This would be the funniest answer imaginable if I weren't afraid that you were serious.
    I'm slightly serious. In my experience people who play a lot of D&D pick up a lot of bad habits that make them poor fits for systems that I like. It's also not a huge deal, which I am exaggerating for comic effect.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Delta's Avatar

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    I certainly wouldn't outright forbid it, but it'd be a "If possible, you're a dude, please play a dude or get real good at female voices." (Note: I've never gamed IRL with someone who was assigned a gender different to their actual one, so that's never been an issue for me. Were it to come up, I'd stick to the guideline-if you're a lady, play a lady; if you're a dude, play a dude; matching their ACTUAL gender, not assigned.)
    I feel this is a really limiting view on things. Would you also recommend for someone with a deep voice not to play an elf, or likewise, someone with a high voice not to play a dwarf? Or to take this further, isn't it kind of tough to imagine the five foot nothing girl next to you as an intimidating tall half-orc fighter chick, so would you recommend against her playing that too?

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Lord Raziere's Avatar

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    On crossplaying, I tend to ask people to play their gender IRL. I do the same thing, simply because when you hear a deep, bassy man voice playing a gemale character or the opposite, it pulls me out a little.

    I certainly wouldn't outright forbid it, but it'd be a "If possible, you're a dude, please play a dude or get real good at female voices." (Note: I've never gamed IRL with someone who was assigned a gender different to their actual one, so that's never been an issue for me. Were it to come up, I'd stick to the guideline-if you're a lady, play a lady; if you're a dude, play a dude; matching their ACTUAL gender, not assigned.)
    THIS post is warning sign to me actually. that kind of sentiment doesn't strike me as very welcoming or open, and I see it causing more problems than not.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  14. - Top - End - #74
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    (Note: I've never gamed IRL with someone who was assigned a gender different to their actual one, so that's never been an issue for me.
    You'd be surprised.

    I certainly was.
    I consider myself an author first, a GM second and a player third.

    The three skill-sets are only tangentially related.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Floret View Post
    Where my first exposure was my pubescent sister playing a guy in about the same way you usually see horror stories about teenage boys playing women, growing older (for a given value of "older" in comparison with some people here...) has given me plenty good examples. And appreciation for the good things it can bring.
    Because I absolutely love gender-swapping scenarios to see how unexamined biases, expectations, etc. are revealed, I have to ask for examples. What did her playing the male PC "the way you usually see horror stories about teenage boys playing women" actually look like? I obviously can make guesses and imagine, but having some real anecdotes to compare my imagination to will do wonders for helping me make my imaginings more accurate.

    In other words, I hope this will reveal to me the answer to the question: What does a teenaged girl who's thinking with her hormones want a male character to be?

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Allow me to rephrase:

    “As a general rule, unless there’s a specific reason not to, please play as your gender.”

    Does that seem less strict? Because that’s basically what it is.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Allow me to rephrase:

    “As a general rule, unless there’s a specific reason not to, please play as your gender.”

    Does that seem less strict? Because that’s basically what it is.
    Not really. Either "a specific reason not to" includes "because you want to" in which case its a meaningless rule, or it doesn't, in which case youre still just locking people out of playing characters because you don't want to give them the chance to do so.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  18. - Top - End - #78

    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    “As a general rule, unless there’s a specific reason not to, please play as your gender.”
    This is a big old warning sign.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    On the topic of gender-flips, my current (on hiatus) group as a player has two of them. Since we don't do first person, generally, or voices at all, that part isn't an issue.

    I'm playing a male-at-birth human whose sex got changed as a result of a poorly-worded Warlock contract. She is starting to accept that change but makes frequent pronoun "mistakes". I don't make much of a deal about it, except when I ended up spending way too much cash on a set of clothes to try to persuade a potential witness. I play her as relatively androgynous most of the time, actually.

    My buddy is playing a dainty human barbarian with a Noble background. She walks around with a huge (for her, she's not a big person) axe and a bad attitude. Very not lady-like, even though her rages are fluffed as channeling ancestor spirits (5e Ancestor Barbarian)

    The other two characters are a tiny, angry gnome evocation wizard (female, played by the barbarian player's wife) with a love for burning things, and a (male, played by a male) half-orc paladin who gets knocked out once per session.

    I'd be concerned if certain of my teenagers tried to cross-play, but it's not a red flag for me.

    I've only walked away from one table because of characters. That group had a selection whose first acts in a town, about 20 minutes into the session, were

    a) one guy got drunk and wandered off carrying a cask of ale.
    b) another guy bought all the cups he could and tried to get the town kids drunk. Yes, specifically the kids.
    c) The other two said they were going to have graphic, public sex in front of everybody.

    I quickly realized that their wants and my style didn't match, so I called the session (since I was the DM) and didn't go back. It was a test run anyway.

    There was another character who, as a cleric, wanted the rest of the party to pay him up front (and unrecoverably) for possible resurrection; if you said no he wouldn't heal you at all. That left a bad taste in my mouth.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Fair enough.

    I would personally love to have those things (well, a wife and kids; I don't want a fence around my yard), but most would consider me a reasonably successful adult. Other than my inability to figure out how people find places to meet attractive girls with similar interests (because any place I try to go to do stuff is full of people who are married and/or not female), I'm doing pretty well.
    I have thought about this and if I was single, I would take up both yoga and cookery classes. Another good option is any sort of dance class but I hate dancing so it wouldn't be high up on my list.

    Gym classes are good as well but I do that anyway. Cardio bunnies FTW.

    EDIT

    I don't do it for the cardio bunnies, just saying...they're there.

    Quote Originally Posted by AshfireMage View Post
    * Anyone who brags repeatedly about how well they know a system or lore- it's one thing if they're just talking about it, but if they're bragging about how good they are at optimizing, how comprehensive their knowledge is, etc. then I've found: A. They aren't and B. They're going to be rude to newer players and/or have trouble listening to the GM.
    Hell yes this is a good one. I find it very odd when I come across someone who boasts about knowing a system, it's a weird thing to be proud of IMO. Kind of like saying 'I know everything about fishing rods'...umm OK? Really the aim of the exercise is the fishing rather than the rods, right? Also if you need to tell people you are good at something, you aren't.
    Last edited by Mr Beer; 2018-06-27 at 05:17 PM.
    Re: 100 Things to Beware of that Every DM Should Know

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Koo Rehtorb View Post
    This is a big old warning sign.
    Am I not allowed to have a preference?
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Am I not allowed to have a preference?
    I mean, theres having a preference, and then theres shutting down something off hand because their player has a deep voice. At the very least, its pretty disrespectful to your players to insist that they try to make their characters conform to how they actually are IRL.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Am I not allowed to have a preference?
    You can have a preference but I'm going to consider it a sign that the two of us might not get along well and probably avoid you for it. Then again one of my best friends came to the realization that she's a woman precisely because she was so much more comfortable playing a female character in game than presenting as a man in meatspace.

    Besides there are people in my games playing an anthropomorphized spirit of a city, a shape-shifting fox and a genderless hive of nanobots. These are all far far stranger and less realistic than hearing an elven woman speaking with a human male's voice.

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    You can have a preference but I'm going to consider it a sign that the two of us might not get along well and probably avoid you for it. Then again one of my best friends came to the realization that she's a woman precisely because she was so much more comfortable playing a female character in game than presenting as a man in meatspace.

    Besides there are people in my games playing an anthropomorphized spirit of a city, a shape-shifting fox and a genderless hive of nanobots. These are all far far stranger and less realistic than hearing an elven woman speaking with a human male's voice.
    Ha ha ha. Yes fellow human, a genderless hive of nanobots is very strange. Ha ha ha. Such a thing does not exist in the real world. It is a good joke we are making together. This is normal human joking. Ha ha ha.
    Re: 100 Things to Beware of that Every DM Should Know

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

  25. - Top - End - #85

    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Am I not allowed to have a preference?
    Not when it comes to choices that belong exclusively to people other than you, no. Or rather, you're certainly allowed to have preferences but you aren't allowed to try to push those preferences on other people.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Alright-I don’t think what I’m trying to say came across right, but looking at what I wrote... yeah, I can see why people are upset at me.

    So I’m sorry-if anyone was offended or hurt by what I said, I can assure you that was not what I intended, and if I can make it better, please let me know how.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  27. - Top - End - #87
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    On crossplaying, I tend to ask people to play their gender IRL. I do the same thing, simply because when you hear a deep, bassy man voice playing a gemale character or the opposite, it pulls me out a little.

    I certainly wouldn't outright forbid it, but it'd be a "If possible, you're a dude, please play a dude or get real good at female voices." (Note: I've never gamed IRL with someone who was assigned a gender different to their actual one, so that's never been an issue for me. Were it to come up, I'd stick to the guideline-if you're a lady, play a lady; if you're a dude, play a dude; matching their ACTUAL gender, not assigned.)

    In PbP games or text-based games or in any other type of game where I can't hear voices, go nuts. It doesn't affect my suspension of disbelief in the slightest if there's a woman behind the keyboard typing out a man's words, or vice versa.
    okay, so unlike the other guys here, I get this. my immersion is not going to survive an elven queen or whatever with the voice of a burly black dude. it just ain't happening.

    then again, the few games I've played in haven't exactly been very immersive anyway. most of the fighting ends up with one guy basically needing to re-learn the rules every time, and I almost never have enough of a clue to make informed decisions regarding the plot. so I guess I'd be able to handle that disconnect too.

    but this whole "just shut up and accept it" attitude from everyone else is aggravating. seriously, you're not even allowed to ask for a concession? that's a big red warning flag right there.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Alright-I don’t think what I’m trying to say came across right, but looking at what I wrote... yeah, I can see why people are upset at me.

    So I’m sorry-if anyone was offended or hurt by what I said, I can assure you that was not what I intended, and if I can make it better, please let me know how.
    It seems like you had a legit bad experience, and you associate that experience with certain behaviors.

    Unfortunately, your description of the problematic behavior overlaps with some non-problematic preferences -- which happen to be uncommonly well-represented on this forum.

    I suspect this is a case where you being more specific about the negative experience would help.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    THIS post is warning sign to me actually. that kind of sentiment doesn't strike me as very welcoming or open, and I see it causing more problems than not.
    Yeah, the one RL group I thought about joining where the GM immediately said "Absolutely no cross-gender characters!" I ended up passing on. Never even planned on playing a female in that, but it was indeed a good first warning sign that me and the GM most likely wouldn't see eye to eye on some things.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: What to Watch Out for in Your Players

    There’s no bad experience, but the general rule is also not a very strong one.

    If someone had a character concept that required being female (say, Drow noble) and were a man, that’d be fine. But since most character concepts tend to be gender neutral, I prefer people to play their own gender, just to make suspension of disbelief easier.

    And a reason I ask this for gender and not, say, race, is that I speak to people on a daily basis. I don’t speak to elves and orcs very often, so I don’t really have a frame of reference for how they should sound.

    Finally, if someone told me “I want to crossplay because I just feel more comfortable playing as the other gender,” I’d probably direct them to talk to some of the lovely trans people here on the playground, or a gender therapist or someone, since that sounds a lot like they might be trans themselves, and lacking direct experience with that, I’d be ill-equipped to give them proper advice. (Oh, and let them crossplay. If they literally feel more comfortable crossplaying, then that means they are uncomfortable not doing that, and D&D is about having fun. Can’t have fun if you’re not comfortable.)
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