Hearthstone 22: Evening the Odds

[Destro_Yersul]

The existence of that spell actually makes Deck of Wonders a lot scarier. Right now there's a few bad effects in there, but this might be the one most likely to make you instantly lose. Nobody uses DoW, of course, but it does sometimes come up as a random spell.

[Thomas Cardew]

I'd say it's about the same as Astral Communion. One burns your deck but gives you a full hand and about 4 turns before fatigue kills you to win. The other gives you 10 mana and the hope of drawing something usefull/card draw to be able to win. I'd honestly prefer unstable element, at least I feel I have some control over what happens next.

[Psyren]

We talked about Myra a couple pages back, before we knew its name. I stand by my initial assessment - it'll be decent in aggro like Odd rogue as a come-from-behind card. If you're losing it can restock your hand/board better than Sprint can and let you turn the tables, and if you're winning it doesn't matter because you can just hold it.

Some of the tricks being talked about won't work that well. Burning cards doesn't count as drawing them, so you won't trigger "on-draw" effects like Scroll of Wonders or Ambushes. The ones that would have made it to your hand (i.e. first 10 cards) will though.

There may end up being a combo that uses it.

[Spore]

Weird that people talk about Whizbang as if it were a card for beginners. You need a good amount of deck knowledge for it and there are inevitably good decks in the pool and some very very poor ones.

No, he is a card for streamers and for the guys in HS that already have every other important card.

[Lord Raziere]

Weird that people talk about Whizbang as if it were a card for beginners. You need a good amount of deck knowledge for it and there are inevitably good decks in the pool and some very very poor ones.

No, he is a card for streamers and for the guys in HS that already have every other important card.

well its a good card for learning how other decks play so that you can break out of your shell, and see whats good and what isn't.

but yeah, I can see your point: its very much the "random fighter" option in card game form. you pick it if you've mastered every fighter and don't need to choose a style to beat someone. I think I might be getting it regardless, because if someone can beat people with any deck thats better than just beating them with specific kinds. I'll be able to use it to see what cards I want to play with.

also today I opened a pack and got two legendaries: Captain Greenskin again and Baron Geddon. now Greenskin, probably not doing anything with it, but Baron Geddon.....that sounds like a good effect to have. good for a single turn board clear if nothing else. I also luckily got Sea Giant earlier and had 500 spare dust on hand so I crafted a second because sea giant seems pretty good to me. I can see that being useful for time to come. I already pre-ordered my 80 packs to get mecha-jaraxxus so I'm not concerned about spending my coins on classic packs.

[Psyren]

If you want "random fighter" in deck form there's a much cheaper option

IIRC Geddon is used in some control decks like Big Spell Mage and Odd Warrior.

No, he is a card for streamers and for the guys in HS that already have every other important card.

Yeah that. If I opened him I'd play a few games before dusting though.

[Thomas Cardew]

We talked about Myra a couple pages back, before we knew its name. I stand by my initial assessment - it'll be decent in aggro like Odd rogue as a come-from-behind card. If you're losing it can restock your hand/board better than Sprint can and let you turn the tables, and if you're winning it doesn't matter because you can just hold it.

Some of the tricks being talked about won't work that well. Burning cards doesn't count as drawing them, so you won't trigger "on-draw" effects like Scroll of Wonders or Ambushes. The ones that would have made it to your hand (i.e. first 10 cards) will though.

There may end up being a combo that uses it.

I believe he was talking about Scroll of Wonders casting the unstable element from its random pool and costing you the game. Comparable to how it can occasionally pull astral communion right now. Not talking about using it to draw more scroll of wonder cards.

I think Whizbang IS a casual player card. And a pretty good on at that. I play about every other expansion or every third ladder season for about a month. I'm not going to bother finding it, but I remember Brode talking about that's how a lot of people play hearthstone, they leave and come back. I'm decent at the game but don't play excessively so I don't 1) climb to ranks higher than 5. 2) have an excessive collection of dust/cards to make any deck I want. I've got C'thun because he was free and that's the only Old god I have. There's a lot of archetypes I'd love to play but can't due to missing key cards. As long as the decks are somewhat viable and more importantly fun, I'll be making whizzbang just to have some variety.

Definitely a streamer card as well though.

Depending on the mechanics of how he works, he's also good for those pesky play X class quests.

If you want "random fighter" in deck form there's a much cheaper option

I get you're joking but there's a world of difference between a themed deck and a build-your-arena-deck as you go.

[Spore]

A casual player card it is. But casual like Noxious or Kibler fun deck casual, not Jonny Everygamer that started Hearthstone 2 months ago or Lily Cuteplayer that crafts and plays cards depending on how adorable the art is.

Edit: just realised you might mean the play mode casual. :)

[Thomas Cardew]

TBF Kibler is my favorite hearthstone personality. I don't really follow hearthstone media, despite youtube's algrorithim's attempt to force it down my throat after I made the mistake of watching a few videos, but of the little I've seen I like Kibler's stuff. Lots of fun decks and Timmy stuff with decent production value. Some of the Trump or Disguised Toast stuff, I forget which, I watched was just too low quality despite enjoying the contents. Kripp's production value is good but I can not stand him.

And if it makes the full deck golden, I'm pretty sure it is a Lily Cuteplayer once she finds out about it .

[Psyren]

Kibler is... okay I guess, but he's not my favorite.

For Arena I go with Amaz, Hafu and Trump.
For Constructed I like Trump, Thijs, Toast (though I skip the ones where he's teaching his girlfriend, her voice and play are nails on chalkboard), and Gaara.

I believe he was talking about Scroll of Wonders casting the unstable element from its random pool and costing you the game. Comparable to how it can occasionally pull astral communion right now. Not talking about using it to draw more scroll of wonder cards.

Ah, gotcha. Well I mean, "cast random spell with random targets" are always hail mary effects anyway. What you really want are DISCOVER random spell, because (a) it limits it to you class pool for easier synergy and (b) you have a much better chance of getting something with asymmetrical benefit, like being able to pick a board clear when you're behind.

Depending on the mechanics of how he works, he's also good for those pesky play X class quests.

This is a great point. I hate paladin so I might just run Whizzadin to get those quests done. He could actually pay for himself that way.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The reason Whizzbang appeals to new and casual players is that having one legendary gives you access to tons of different cards you don't own, including other Legendaries.

You don't have reliable access to them, but having reliable access only matters if you're being competitive, which new and casual players can't be, anyway.

[Psyren]

FYI - there's some cards on the official spoiler page I don't think we've talked about yet.

My initial thoughts:

- Looks like Druid is getting a Treant theme this expansion? Hey. that Cenarius I pulled ages ago might actually see play!
- Flobbidinus = Hadronox #2. Yay.
- How does Supercollider choose which neighbor gets hit? It'll be funny with poisonous minions regardless.
- Electra + Spellstone or Bloodlust will make for one heck of an alpha strike.

[Anarion]

FYI - there's some cards on the official spoiler page I don't think we've talked about yet.

My initial thoughts:

- Looks like Druid is getting a Treant theme this expansion? Hey. that Cenarius I pulled ages ago might actually see play!
- Flobbidinus = Hadronox #2. Yay.
- How does Supercollider choose which neighbor gets hit? It'll be funny with poisonous minions regardless.
- Electra + Spellstone or Bloodlust will make for one heck of an alpha strike.

Treant synergy is currently a strong maybe. Dendrologist and Landscaping are efficiently costed, but cheap Druid cards have to compete with ramp and removal for space in a deck. Probably the bigger question is whether the available removal will thwart token Druid or not. If it’s good, treant synergy can probably fit in there as a bonus or variant deck.

Probably random for Supercollider. Although if they built the tech to allow you to temporarily select actions for your opponent’s cards, I think that would actually be really cool.

Electra is yet another in a long line of shaman cards that looks crazy if you manage to draw 20+ cards of your deck and have everything you need. Tbh though, it’s probably better in Shudderwock just to Lightning Storm or Healing Wave twice. It’s one of the safest crafting choices I’ve seen, it’s practically guaranteed to see play as long as Shaman has any place in the meta at all.

[Spore]

Trump is a cool guy but all of his youtube is filled with so much cringe I cannot stand to watch him anymore. He helped me more than any other streamer to understand HS better bit his cringey personas and his weird taste sours it to me.

He even used an edited porn fanart of Nefarian for a tavern brawl. Not that I blame him for that but the whole deal is weird to me.

To explain it in a weird D&D analogy: He is the Cha 10 / Int 16 wizard that tries to be the face instead of flabbergasting you with his im depth knowledge.

[Joran]

FYI - there's some cards on the official spoiler page I don't think we've talked about yet.

My initial thoughts:

- Looks like Druid is getting a Treant theme this expansion? Hey. that Cenarius I pulled ages ago might actually see play!
- Flobbidinus = Hadronox #2. Yay.
- How does Supercollider choose which neighbor gets hit? It'll be funny with poisonous minions regardless.
- Electra + Spellstone or Bloodlust will make for one heck of an alpha strike.

Flobbidinus = Malygos #2; it also means the biggest counter to Malygos Druid (destroying the Twig and healing/armoring out of a single Malygos + double moonfire burst combo) no longer works.

I'm unsure he'll be used in Hadronox Druid because Oaken Summons can draw him, along with Master Oakhearth.

Edit: Whizbang won't be much of a streamer card in the usual sense. Why would a streamer want to play a random underpowered constructed deck? Dog already runs a randomizer on his stream occasionally, with the bonus of being able to select which decks are selectable.

Instead, there's definitely going to be a challenge for someone to hit Legend with just Whizbang.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm unsure he'll be used in Hadronox Druid because Oaken Summons can draw him, along with Master Oakhearth.

Guaranteed Hadronox #2 that you can cube, and which also beats transform effects and Skulking Geist, seems like a really big strength. Good enough to not use Oakheart, possibly good enough to risk Oaken Summons. So it'll be a new variant on the deck.

[Psyren]

Flobbidinus = Malygos #2; it also means the biggest counter to Malygos Druid (destroying the Twig and healing/armoring out of a single Malygos + double moonfire burst combo) no longer works.

I'm unsure he'll be used in Hadronox Druid because Oaken Summons can draw him, along with Master Oakhearth.

You're right, he'll definitely see more play in Twig druid. Speaking of which, I just realized I have almost all the pieces for that...

Edit: Whizbang won't be much of a streamer card in the usual sense. Why would a streamer want to play a random underpowered constructed deck? Dog already runs a randomizer on his stream occasionally, with the bonus if being able to select which decks are selectable.

Instead, there's definitely going to be a challenge for someone to hit Legend with just Whizbang.

I mean, "the usual sense" for streamers definitely includes Legend challenge runs and memeing, so this shouldn't be any different.

[Hamste]

So shadowboxer is getting nerfed and you are going to get full dust refund if you still have it. A few other cards are getting nerfed as well though just tag changes and enchantment changes.

[Psyren]

More new cards:

- We got the Paladin legendary spell, and it looks like Mech Paladin is going to be a thing.
- Dr. Boom is a Warrior hero card after all. Any idea what his hero power will be? (Also, cue Mechwarrior jokes.)
- Unexpected Results seems like it'll be interesting in some form of tempo mage.
- Weaponized Pinata seems like a good addition to Quest Priest since it'll spray out win conditions. But I don't see traditional control decks surviving until/unless Shudderwock is nerfed again.

(If you're having trouble finding the new cards, follow the spoiler link I posted above.)

[Resileaf]

Demonic project sounds like it will be incredibly popular since it can kill combos if it works out. Imagine getting rid of Shudderwock, for example.
Omega agent's card art is really cool. Probably a fairly good effect too.
Lab recruiter takes gang up and makes it a million times better (cheaper AND has a body on board).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

- Dr. Boom is a Warrior hero card after all. Any idea what his hero power will be? (Also, cue Mechwarrior jokes.)

Courtesy of /r/CompetitiveHS

[Resileaf]

Courtesy of /r/CompetitiveHS

So if I understand right, it costs 4 mana to activate Boom's hero power, two to press the big red button, two to cast the hero power itself?

[Joran]

So if I understand right, it costs 4 mana to activate Boom's hero power, two to press the big red button, two to cast the hero power itself?

No, the Big Red Button is just what it shows on the Collection page when you hover over the hero.

You get one of the random 5 hero powers when he's played.

[Resileaf]

No, the Big Red Button is just what it shows on the Collection page when you hover over the hero.

You get one of the random 5 hero powers when he's played.

Ah, okay, I get it. Very odd, you're pretty much certain not to get the right one when you need it, but every single one of them is incredibly powerful.

[Psyren]

Hooray, more RNG!

Demonic project sounds like it will be incredibly popular since it can kill combos if it works out. Imagine getting rid of Shudderwock, for example

Nice, I didn't even think about that. Hopefully other classes get anti-combo tech.

Lab recruiter takes gang up and makes it a million times better (cheaper AND has a body on board).

I mean, we already got Gang Up But Better (Dire Frenzy) and it didn't amount to much. I suppose anything's possible though.

***

Unrelated note - my main hope for Boom is that Quest Mage can make a comeback. It's been completely useless since Cabalist rotated...

Also, I wouldn't mind if we got some kind of replacement for Ice Block in Standard, maybe as the Mage legendary spell - or at the very least, if we got a version of it similar to the Rogue's Evasion.

[Resileaf]

I mean, we already got Gang Up But Better (Dire Frenzy) and it didn't amount to much. I suppose anything's possible though.

Yeah, but hunters don't care about gang up. Rogues do, and it's a rogue card.
Rogues love that kind of stuff. Wild decks often use gang up.

[Psyren]

Yeah, but hunters don't care about gang up. Rogues do, and it's a rogue card.

In what deck? It can't be used in Odd, it's too slow for Even, it's definitely too slow for Quest, and it's anti-synergy in Kingsbane.

Rogues love that kind of stuff. Wild decks often use gang up.

That might be the case. I wouldn't know - the Wild meta is as relevant to me as the Tavern Brawl meta. In another game.

[Rynjin]

At a Wild stab, I'd say Jade Rogue if nothing else probably runs it.

[Psyren]

At a Wild stab, I'd say Jade Rogue if nothing else probably runs it.

Gotcha. As mentioned though, Wild is of little interest to me.

[Zevox]

Have not been keeping up with the card reveals, so, looking a the page Psyren linked to, thoughts:

Spoiler

Show

Neutral
1: Faithful Lumi - Solid as far as the numbers go, but it does have the problem of being a 1-drop you don't want to play on 1. Maybe it'll find its way into constructed, maybe not, hard to say. Similarly, not entirely sure about arena, since it's not that easy to draft creature-type synergies. Kinda lukewarm on this one overall.
2: Upgradeable Framebot - That's a card you definitely want to slap Magnetic cards onto. If new Mech decks work out, I expect to see this guy in there, unless Magnetic just proves to be a failure of a keyword, which I currently doubt.
4: Whizbang the Wonderful - Yeah, this is a card just for people who want to screw around. Obviously not worthy of serious use in constructed, though some people will obviously use it anyway due to finding it amusing. And will it even be in arena? Seems like the kind of card they might just not put into the arena card pool.
4: Weaponized Pinata - Huh, not too bad. Kind of reminiscent of Polluted Hoarder, except with +1 health and the card isn't from your deck. Unfortunately random legendaries are often not that great, since there's plenty of bad ones out there, and the good ones tend to be late-game cards. In constructed I think you just run whichever legendaries you actually want instead. Probably a strong arena card though.
5: Zilliax - That is a lot of keywords for one card, but terrible stats. Obviously meant to be used for the buff half of Magnetic's options, so it depends a lot on the other mechs of the set whether it will find a place in constructed, though the higher mana cost does leave me a bit skeptical. In arena, probably not so good for the same reason other synergy-dependent cards tend not to be.
5: Wargear - The most vanilla magnetic mech card. If this is good, then magnetic and mechs in general are great. More likely, I'l guessing this is an arena card we won't see much of in constructed.

Druid
2: Dendrologist - Depends on how well the treant theme turns out. For the moment, looks solid, but perhaps not "unfair" enough to make it in constructed.
3: Landscaping - Probably the best treant-theme card so far. 3 mana for two 2/2s is just good on its own, easily a strong arena card, maybe even a strong constructed card even absent treant synergies.
4: Flobbidinous Floop - I hate this card already. I can't imagine what possessed them to print something that will so obviously result in truly degenerate combos with Hadronox or Malygos. Ugh...
10: Mulchmuncher - Kind of iffy. On the upside, it counts every treant from the entire game, not just ones that die in your hand. On the downside, there's not that many treant-generating cards right now. Landscaping, Witchwood Apple, Force of Nature, Soul of the Forest, Cenarius, and I think that's it. If a slow control deck with treant synergies can work, then that might be enough, but otherwise Witchwood Apple and Cenarius are likely too slow, and Force of Nature is eh, and Soul of the Forest can be hard to use. Moreover, a potentially-cheap 8/8 rush seems like a midrange deck's card, so, I have some skepticism unless we get more treant-making cards. Probably bad for arena, too hard to discount there.

Mage
3: Stargazer Luna - Strong card. Not much else to say, it's just a card draw engine.
4: Unexpected Results - The question in my mind is, is it the number of minions summoned or the cost that gets increased with spell damage? Either one's pretty good, but the former is probably better, since it will be hard to have more than +1, maybe +2 at any given time. Either way, looks potentially promising, it's fair even before the spell damage boost and could become great with even +1.

Paladin
1: Autodefense Matrix - Looks like the strongest Paladin secret we've seen in a while, though probably still not that great. Strong if you only have mid- or high-cost minions out, pretty bad with, say, your hero power, though maybe a sufficiently aggressive deck could make it work even with such weak minions. Not expecting much of it at this point though.
4: Annoy-o-Module - At twice the cost of Annoy-o-Tron, it's probably not nearly as good, even with Magnetic thrown on. Maybe good for arena, probably not for constructed.
7: Kangor's Endless Army - Well, that's a big finisher. Strongly encourages you to stack magnetic buffs on a few mechs during the course of the game, so you get a ton of power back in the late-game. If Mech Paladin is a thing, this will be in it, I'd be pretty sure.

Priest
2: Dead Ringer - Deathrattle synergy on a mech huh? Weird. Hard to judge what deck would want this, but it is 2 mana 2/1 + draw, which is proven good (Loot Hoarder), and it's drawing something specific, which is a plus, so it definitely has potential. Good in arena most likely, unless I'm misjudging how easy/hard deathrattles are to get.
5: Reckless Experimenter - Big discount, but basically just makes your deathrattle minions be their deathrattles alone. With some, like Sylvanas, I could see that being worth it. With others especially the cheaper ones, probably not so much. Maybe a deck based on this guy can be made, but I'm not seeing it right now, at least not in standard.

Rogue
2: Lab Recruiter - Almost strictly-better Gang Up. Solid for arena obviously, but constructed... eh. If Coldlight Oracle were still around, Mill Rogue would have a field day with this guy, but without that, I don't see what they'd use him for, personally.

Shaman
2: Menacing Nimbus - Very solid, but Elemental Shaman really isn't much of a thing, and I don't see this being the card that changes that. Maybe it finds a home in other Shaman decks as just a good card though.

Warlock
2: Demonic Project - Combo-killer, ho! Unfortunately though, pretty useless, and sometimes counter-productive, against anything else. Tech option if some nasty combo decks are popular, nothing more.
5: Omega Agent - A bit sub-par by default, but that upside come turn 10 is pretty strong. I'm nonetheless unsure if it's strong enough to see play though, being just a 5 mana Yeti until that late is pretty questionable.

Warrior
5: Supercollider - Cool, but a bit gimmicky. Great against control decks that are trying to do things like drop Giants, but pretty bad against most other deck types. Not expecting to see this one in constructed, and it's probably not a high pick even in arena.
7: Beryllium Nullifier - That is a high cost for what it brings. As a minion, it sucks - way too little attack. As a buff, it's too expensive I think. Likely just bad.
7: Doctor Boom, Mad Genius - I only wish this were a more control-oriented card, because it looks fun. Still, hard to judge whether it's good now, relies a lot on what mechs we get and whether Warrior can pull off a mech deck, which is pretty questionable given Warrior in general is not in great shape last I checked.