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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Best post in the thread.
    Gosh... thanks, Korvin. I'd like to thank Crusher and Peelee, who made my post possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Just a thought, but is it possible that Dimensional Anchor is an undisclosed property of the umbrella? After all, if the Monster has the power of Teleportation (or similar) then Xykon wouldn't want it escaping.

    Belay that - we've seek Xykon teleport with the Monster.
    Last edited by Quartz; 2018-08-16 at 04:18 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    About teleportation and 'having to be familiar with location'
    I still don't understand why that was ever a problem. The rule that you have to be familiar with the location is a limitation of the Teleport spell, the one that the Azure City wizard used, (the Word of Recall and Teleport Object spells share this limitation). But the Teleport spell is unsuitable anyway, because it has a range limit of 100 miles, whereas Vaarsuvius and O-Chul were transported to an island near another continent close to the Elven lands. That's an obvious sign that the Teleport spell wasn't used here, instead something better like the Greater Teleport or Wish had to be used. But Greater Teleport or Wish don't require being familiar with the destination.

    This is also what really makes Igramul's poison touch attack so attractive to me (not in the sense that I'd like to experience it, but that the MitD could be using something like that), because while we know very little of Igramul (Ygramul), we do know that he gave his victims the ability to teleport both so far that they could never reach it on horse even if they spent decades on the ride, and to a location of which they knew no more than a name. It is clear that Igramul's poison grants a Greater Teleport ability, not a plain teleport. Igramul seems unsuitable as the MitD because of the tower scene, but if another creature (a shapechanger) could use a poison touch attack with a similar ability, that would be a great match. The big problem with the latter idea is that now the solution would involve not just one rare creature, but two rare creatures that would have to exist in the OoTS world: Igramul, and a shapechanger such as a Protean or an Experiment Kraj that can copy his ability. (And a young Experiment Kraj that just about fits under the umbrella isn't strong enough on its own, so it would need to steal the ability of a third creature for the tower scene, so I'd exclude it. I just don't know enough shapechangers.)
    Last edited by b_jonas; 2018-08-16 at 04:58 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Gosh... thanks, Korvin. I'd like to thank Crusher and Peelee, who made my post possible.
    Yes, all glory to Peelee!
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    But the Teleport spell is unsuitable anyway, because it has a range limit of 100 miles
    No, it has a range limit of 100 miles per caster level. For epic creatures, it's beyond 2000 miles.

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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, it has a range limit of 100 miles per caster level. For epic creatures, it's beyond 2000 miles.

    Grey Wolf
    Wasn't the teleport across continents though?
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Wasn't the teleport across continents though?
    Yes, but Stickworldworld could be more Kerbin than Earth.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Wasn't the teleport across continents though?
    Sure, but 2000 miles is still a heck of a distance. Coast to islands off the coast, an ocean could be that narrow. Or OotS world might be smaller than ours (fairly common in fantasy stories, were authors don't want massive distances slowing down the action by requiring weeks of walking to get from A to B).

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Or OotS world might be smaller than ours (fairly common in fantasy stories, were authors don't want massive distances slowing down the action by requiring weeks of walking to get from A to B).

    Grey Wolf
    Maybe that also accounts for how strong fantasy heroes seem compared to the common folk we know, and how they can frequently leap such great distances, etc. If they live on slightly smaller, hence less massive worlds, the gravity should be slightly less than Earth's 1G. Not enough that people will float around as if they're doing a moonwalk, but enough that they can do Olympic-level feats (while wearing armor and carrying heavy gear) as a routine thing.
    Last edited by Darth Paul; 2018-08-16 at 11:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Maybe that also accounts for how strong fantasy heroes seem compared to the common folk we know, and how they can frequently leap such great distances, etc. If they live on slightly smaller, hence less massive worlds, the gravity should be slightly less than Earth's 1G. Not enough that people will float around as if they're doing a moonwalk, but enough that they can do Olympic-level feats (while wearing armor and carrying heavy gear) as a routine thing.
    That's why I pulled out Kerbin as an example; the physics work the same, but the world is smaller.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Maybe that also accounts for how strong fantasy heroes seem compared to the common folk we know, and how they can frequently leap such great distances, etc. If they live on slightly smaller, hence less massive worlds, the gravity should be slightly less than Earth's 1G. Not enough that people will float around as if they're doing a moonwalk, but enough that they can do Olympic-level feats (while wearing armor and carrying heavy gear) as a routine thing.
    John Carter, Mars, Edgar Rice Burroughs, is a classic example within the swords and sorcery genre.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That's why I pulled out Kerbin as an example; the physics work the same, but the world is smaller.
    I have not heard of Kerbin. (And John Carter slipped my mind, I never read the books.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    I have not heard of Kerbin. (And John Carter slipped my mind, I never read the books.)
    Oh man. It's a great game. I very, very highly recommend it, if you have the time and inclination. Steep learning curve, but it's better than it used to be, and you can ask always ask for help.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, it has a range limit of 100 miles per caster level. For epic creatures, it's beyond 2000 miles.
    Oh. So that's why people are talking about teleport. Thank you for the correction, I've been reading that rule wrong the whole time. I have to rethink some things I assumed about the MitD now.
    Last edited by b_jonas; 2018-08-17 at 04:44 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Assuming the power used for the escape scene is psychic-based, can we garner any clues from the distance travelled if the power source is psychic (e.g. PSPs expended) rather than arcane? How about the scene where the Monster throws Miko and Windstrider through the tower wall?

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Assuming the power used for the escape scene is psychic-based, can we garner any clues from the distance travelled if the power source is psychic (e.g. PSPs expended) rather than arcane?
    No, because we don't know what the distance is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    How about the scene where the Monster throws Miko and Windstrider through the tower wall?
    The monster is explicitly punching in that scene. Psionic (or any other form of magic) is not involved.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, because we don't know what the distance is.
    Can we broadly guess?

    The monster is explicitly punching in that scene. Psionic (or any other form of magic) is not involved.
    The Monster might THINK he is only punching, but what if the monster were subconsciously using his powers?
    Last edited by Quartz; 2018-08-18 at 08:21 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Can we broadly guess?
    Sure! Allow me to submit the first guess:

    A ways.
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    In Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, the carbuncle is able to teleport Mr. Scruffy without going along itself. Based on things I've read elsewhere on the forums, it's probably using Dimension Door, which would normally affect the caster like Teleport does (disclaimer that I'm not familiar with DnD and may have misread a source). Does this make Teleport a better explanation for the escape scene?

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Riarra View Post
    In Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, the carbuncle is able to teleport Mr. Scruffy without going along itself. Based on things I've read elsewhere on the forums, it's probably using Dimension Door, which would normally affect the caster like Teleport does (disclaimer that I'm not familiar with DnD and may have misread a source). Does this make Teleport a better explanation for the escape scene?
    That's actually a very good point. It does seem like good evidence that Stickworld teleportation may not explicitly require self.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Riarra View Post
    In Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, the carbuncle is able to teleport Mr. Scruffy without going along itself. Based on things I've read elsewhere on the forums, it's probably using Dimension Door, which would normally affect the caster like Teleport does (disclaimer that I'm not familiar with DnD and may have misread a source). Does this make Teleport a better explanation for the escape scene?
    Well, if it is using dimension door, it doesn't change things at all, since we know the caster doesn't have to travel through (see Z pushing V through). If it is teleport, it would be an interesting fact. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me find a stat block for the carbuncle that includes either spell, so can someone check for me?

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Well, if it is using dimension door, it doesn't change things at all, since we know the caster doesn't have to travel through (see Z pushing V through). If it is teleport, it would be an interesting fact. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me find a stat block for the carbuncle that includes either spell, so can someone check for me?

    Grey Wolf
    Wasn't the spell Z used to push V through a portal Plane Shift, not Dimension Door? Or is there a separate instance where Z also used Dimension Door against V?
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Wasn't the spell Z used to push V through a portal Plane Shift, not Dimension Door? Or is there a separate instance where Z also used Dimension Door against V?
    Yeah, it was Plane Shift.
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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Yeah, it was Plane Shift.
    Which, as I recall, is explicitly allowed to be used in exactly that kind of offensive manner, without forcing the caster along for the ride.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Wasn't the spell Z used to push V through a portal Plane Shift, not Dimension Door? Or is there a separate instance where Z also used Dimension Door against V?
    Good grief. To misquote the comic, how many forms of teleportation does a system need?

    Fair enough, I got them confused. Since dimension door does seem like a poor man's version of teleport, yes, it would be a strong indication that neither requires the caster to go along. Still, do we know that carbuncles use dimension door and not plane shift?

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Good grief. To misquote the comic, how many forms of teleportation does a system need?

    Fair enough, I got them confused. Since dimension door does seem like a poor man's version of teleport, yes, it would be a strong indication that neither requires the caster to go along. Still, do we know that carbuncles use dimension door and not plane shift?

    Grey Wolf
    Not know, per se, but Plane Shift looks like it always opens a portal (as does Gate, which does make sense, since it functions like Plane Shift) Nope I was wrong.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2018-08-21 at 05:51 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    d20pfsrd. com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/carbuncle/

    I can't post proper links yet, but this is the carbuncle that was linked in the GDGU thread, although it looks like it's from Pathfinder.

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Not know, per se, but Plane Shift looks like it always opens a portal (as does Gate, which does make sense, since it functions like Plane Shift)
    Unfortunately, not always.

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  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Unfortunately, not always.

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    Well color me wrong, I forgot about that one.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Riarra View Post
    d20pfsrd. com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/carbuncle/

    I can't post proper links yet, but this is the carbuncle that was linked in the GDGU thread, although it looks like it's from Pathfinder.
    Yeah, I came across that one, but that ones doesn't fit at all - no fake left behind.

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