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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleh View Post
    I advise against this. It's terribly bad form to punish out of game behavior with in game consequences. By doing that, you're only stooping to their level and then you're both in the wrong.
    Bah.

    I would agree if I thought this as**ole would remain with the group, but unless we are missing a crucial piece of background info this munchkin is on it's way out. Trust me, the other players in the group will love you for it. Ignite and eject this obnoxious beggar.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Yeah, just flat out say "No more."

    He's gotten some pretty dang insane bonuses, to the point where he'd have to TRY to be on par with others.

    It'll be tough, but tell him this:

    "After some thought (and possibly talking to the other players) I've decided that I was too generous with your character. He's far, FAR too strong relative to everyone else. I'd like you to come up with a reason for your character to move on from the party, and have a new character made following the same rules everyone else had available to use. I'll work with you to integrate them into the story and party as soon as possible."

    Be firm. Don't be rude-but don't let him steamroll you.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    Thanks! The cookie + milk thing isn't so common where I'm from.
    It's from a kid's book from the 80s. The theme of the book is that if you give the mouse one thing, he'll want another thing to go with it, and it just keeps escalating, and at the very end the mouse has gone through all sorts of things and it's made him hungry so he wants a cookie...

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    Trust me, the other players in the group will love you for it. Ignite and eject this obnoxious beggar.
    This is quite presumptuous.

    Hearing one side of a story absent the vocal tone and body language clues we typically rely on, we know for fact that we are missing details, we just don't know how relevant they happen to be.

    It's also presumptuous because we don't know how the other players actually feel. Sure, they seem to agree that a table boot might be called for, but that doesn't mean they'd be happy with the DM being a jerk about it.

    I think you're projecting yourself into their situation, but the people might not share your feelings. "Burn the munchkin and revel in the table's appreciation" will only work some of the time and arguably is encouraging the wrong mentality in thd group. "Don't confront out of game behavior with in game consequences" is always a good principle to work by, regardless of the group, precisely because it encourages a better table ethic.
    Last edited by Pleh; 2018-07-10 at 06:17 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleh View Post
    This is quite presumptuous.

    Hearing one side of a story absent the vocal tone and body language clues we typically rely on, we know for fact that we are missing details, we just don't know how relevant they happen to be.

    It's also presumptuous because we don't know how the other players actually feel. Sure, they seem to agree that a table boot might be called for, but that doesn't mean they'd be happy with the DM being a jerk about it.
    Of course we don't know those things, it's an internet message board. While we are admittedly lacking those -I for one would love more information from the OP, especially an update- we do know some things:
    • the catman is an as**ole. How do we know this? He plays a Lycanthrope, and who plays Lycanthropes? as**holes, that's who.
    • he harangues the DM and the other players about mechanics, reinforcing his status as an unwiped as**ole
    • he is sufficiently disruptive that the DM has sought outside cousel & the other players consider getting rid of him
    • Table ethic? This as**ole kid lacks any sort of table ethic! He shamelessly berates the DM, who has already been very generous, for more and more. He does not care or is unaware of wasting the table time of everyone else.

    And believe me, this type of guy, this angry little mole man, you think he is going to bow out gracefully when asked to leave the game? Of course not! He is going to piss and moan. Also in my experience a player who plays a Lycanthrope (as**ole) is the type of person who would carry an actual sword around with him and would also steal from you so watch him when he leaves after getting kicked.

    I bet that if the table has ever ordered pizza, this guy has eaten the last 2 pieces without offering to share and probably stuck his fingers in the garlic sauce (if present) sullying it for the others. My point is this kid is not going to go quietly, so might as well have your fun about getting rid of him, and it is fun to trample the little munchkin under a stampede of fireballs...preferably right after he throws his next tantrum about not getting to shoot 2 heavy crossbows or sling lightning from his katana.
    Last edited by Hooligan; 2018-07-10 at 11:21 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Hooligan, if you are trying to be funny... I don't think it's working. You have no way of knowing for sure that the subject of this discussion is as unpleasant a person as you claim they are. And further insulting and insinuating regarding this person when they are not present to defend themselves does little to engender support for your solution.

    I have played with people who used lycanthropy without being unpleasant, heck I wrote a book on playing a lycanthrope! This doesn't make someone an *******, not does it necessarily follow that said player is an "angry little mole man" or that he "has eaten the last 2 pieces and probably stuck his fingers in the garlic sauce (if present)."

    You are ascribing the worst stereotypes of people who enjoy our hobby to this unknown person and helping to perpetuate the idea that people who enjoy table top RPGs are social rejects of the worst sort.

    I don't think you are helping the conversation at this point.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    I wrote a book on playing a lycanthrope!
    I can understand you disagreeing with my opinion regarding how to handle it. But I don't believe we need additional information to say that the player's actions - if truly described in the OP's post - bespeak a pattern of unpleasant & selfish behavior towards the DM & other players. In short, a cad.

    Do not pretend that occasionally playing a very social game with unpleasant, unsociable people is not an unfortunate reality of this hobby; we constantly read about them on here, I have brushed up against them when playing at events or in the wilds of roll20.
    Last edited by Hooligan; 2018-07-11 at 01:10 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Hooligan, you're being obnoxious. Via your reasoning everybody who plays Werewolf (Apocalypse or Forsaken) is an ********. Just calm down, maybe go away and do something else for an hour or so, and please stop insisting that somebody you've never met is an ********.

    {Self scrubbed}
    Last edited by Anonymouswizard; 2018-07-11 at 02:23 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    Of course we don't know those things, it's an internet message board. While we are admittedly lacking those -I for one would love more information from the OP, especially an update- we do know some things:
    • the catman is an as**ole. How do we know this? He plays a Lycanthrope, and who plays Lycanthropes? as**holes, that's who.
    • he harangues the DM and the other players about mechanics, reinforcing his status as an unwiped as**ole
    • he is sufficiently disruptive that the DM has sought outside cousel & the other players consider getting rid of him
    • Table ethic? This as**ole kid lacks any sort of table ethic! He shamelessly berates the DM, who has already been very generous, for more and more. He does not care or is unaware of wasting the table time of everyone else.

    And believe me, this type of guy, this angry little mole man, you think he is going to bow out gracefully when asked to leave the game? Of course not! He is going to piss and moan. Also in my experience a player who plays a Lycanthrope (as**ole) is the type of person who would carry an actual sword around with him and would also steal from you so watch him when he leaves after getting kicked.

    I bet that if the table has ever ordered pizza, this guy has eaten the last 2 pieces without offering to share and probably stuck his fingers in the garlic sauce (if present) sullying it for the others. My point is this kid is not going to go quietly, so might as well have your fun about getting rid of him, and it is fun to trample the little munchkin under a stampede of fireballs...preferably right after he throws his next tantrum about not getting to shoot 2 heavy crossbows or sling lightning from his katana.

    It's almost as if you speak from experience!
    But tell us how you really feel?

    (I'm honestly not bothered at all, however. Seems like much needed venting, which could be a topic all its own.)

    As for the topic: talk about it like mature adults. It's about as complicated and impossible as it sounds.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    He plays a Lycanthrope, and who plays Lycanthropes?
    Here you present a point supported by the anecdotal evidence of your personal experience. To refute, all I need is a single counterexample that contradicts your claim.

    I have played with people who play lycanthropes without being jerks. They were power gaming, for sure, but they weren't bratty about their power level.

    The absence of evidence ("[you] have never seen a player use a lycanthrope honestly")

    is not the evidence of absence ("therefore, only dishonest players bother to play lycanthropes").
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    he is sufficiently disruptive that the DM has sought outside cousel & the other players consider getting rid of him

    Table ethic? This kid lacks any sort of table ethic! He shamelessly berates the DM, who has already been very generous, for more and more. He does not care or is unaware of wasting the table time of everyone else.
    Some people come on here for problems that are sometimes non issues.

    The lack of ethic from this player is precisely the reason a demonstration of ethic is the correct response.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Hooligan, you're being obnoxious. Via your reasoning everybody who plays Werewolf (Apocalypse or Forsaken) is an ********. Just calm down, maybe go away and do something else for an hour or so, and please stop insisting that somebody you've never met is an ********.

    {Self scrubbed}
    Not at all. I've never played either of those systems. Should have clarified to say:
    people who play lycanthropes in D&D
    I stand by my correct assessment of the player in question being a scoundrel.
    Last edited by Hooligan; 2018-07-11 at 07:16 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    Not at all. I've never played either of those systems. Should have clarified to say:
    people who play lycanthropes in D&D
    I stand by my correct assessment of the player in question being a scoundrel.
    So, by virtue of choosing to play with a GM who is willing to run a classic, iconic monster like a werewolf, that can infect other beings, like your PC, virtually all D&D players are ****s?

    Only those players who carefully select GMs who will never play werewolves (and, thus, are ****s themselves) which could turn party members have the potential to not be ****s?

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    I'd really like to know how Hooligan has played multiple games of DnD with a lycanthrope PC and never encountered someone doing it because they are a furry, not a powergamer. That's quite an impressive feat. That being said, many furries are quite nice people.

    However, I don't think this player should be treated as a power gamer. They don't fall into the standard type as someone with a great deal of system mastery who try to be the best at what they do. They don't understand the rules and rarely try to follow them. The problem isn't that they made an optimized character, but that they aren't trying to play the actual game. Sure, they want a powerful character, but it isn't a case of someone who optimizes more than the rest of the party or really enjoys building characters, it is someone trying to pester and whine at the DM until they get what they want. Advice for powergamers just won't apply as trying to get him to do something like build towards a goal won't work as he isn't building anything, just trying to break rules to be kewl.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    a GM who is willing to run a classic, iconic monster
    D&D players who choose lycanthropes as their starting character race

    I hope this is sufficiently rigorous & granular a description for you Quertus.
    Last edited by Hooligan; 2018-07-11 at 11:10 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    D&D players who choose lycanthropes as their starting character race

    I hope this is sufficiently rigorous & granular a description for you Quertus.
    I've played a lycanthrope as my starting character race once. It was fun.


    Which is not to say that this guy isn't being a tool, because yeah, obviously he is. But you're painting with a pretty wide brush right now, Hooligan.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    D&D players who choose lycanthropes as their starting character race

    I hope this is sufficiently rigorous & granular a description for you Quertus.
    That's better, in that I believe it more accurately states what you intended. This is the playground, home of the most optimized pedantry, after all.

    At this point, given my personal limited sample of PC lycanthropes, I cannot provide counter evidence to "PC lycanthrope = power gamer". However, as I do not equate power gamer with ****, I cannot concur with your "PC lycanthrope = ****" thesis. I see no correlation between ****ishness and lycanthropy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'd really like to know how Hooligan has played multiple games of DnD with a lycanthrope PC and never encountered someone doing it because they are a furry, not a powergamer. That's quite an impressive feat. That being said, many furries are quite nice people.
    I had never even considered that.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Praise_Helm View Post
    My group has been having trouble with our fighter/battlemaster in 5e. I started by letting him be a weretiger and things just snowballed from there.

    He constantly hounds me to give him extra damage in some way even though hes currently a 10th level fighter. Hes conviced I should let him have multiattack on top of extra attack due to the weretiger feats, and he refuses to acknowledge theyre both the same feat. Other examples include dual wielding 2h heavy crossbows and loading both of them twice on the same turn, letting him use d20s as a damage die, etc.

    It would be fine if it was just me because all I have to do is say No, but hes annoying everyone else with his constant reasons why he should have things nobody else has. Its like hes trying to powergame/rule heckle, but hes not smart enough to do it properly so he has to bug everyone else for ideas. Its getting to the point where they want to kick him from the group. Ideas? Maybe a compromise?
    You've got to be assertive with that "no." He's disrespecting you, the position of GM, and the other people at the table with this crap.

    Try something like, "I've already been more than generous with your character. If you don't stop trying to weedle extra oomph out of me, I'm going to start slapping you with penalties and you can either suck it up or walk away."

    You can be firm without being rude but don't be afraid to be rude if he won't take the polite version.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    It's from a kid's book from the 80s. The theme of the book is that if you give the mouse one thing, he'll want another thing to go with it, and it just keeps escalating, and at the very end the mouse has gone through all sorts of things and it's made him hungry so he wants a cookie...
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
    I missed the part where your group wants to kick him. Unless the player is a blood relative or a really good friend, this is what needs to happen:

    Relentlessly Fireball his character to death and then kick him from the gaming group. Follow him to ensure he does not steal on his way out the door.

    Trust me, this guy is an as**ole. Lycanthropic characters, who plays 'em?

    As**oles, that's who. As**oles who would steal on their way out the door.

    In this case, the gaping nature of this butthole -so wide you could comfortably park a bus inside- is attested to by his terrible behaviors:
    1. shamelessly munchkins at the table
    2. in pursuit of #1 probably wastes time quibbling with you &/or the other players
    3. has things no one else has yet demands more things that no one else has...another as**hole trait
    4. i'd wager when he is argued with, whether by you or the other players, he turns into a sullen little fudge goblin for the next several minutes.
    5. is unaware of or does not care that #'s 1-4 suck.

    do yourself a favor, fireball and kick. It's deserved. It's not passive aggressive. You will feel damned good while explosion after explosion tears apart his as**ole catman body. You and your group will have something to laugh about at other sessions.
    Whether or not anyone deserves that kind of treatment is debatable, but just for practical/safety reasons, I'd advise against unnecessarily and grossly humiliating someone who knows where you live and has been inside your home. I'm not saying be afraid of anyone, but the "Huh-huh, we sure showed that guy," is going to feel a lot less cool after your tires get slashed.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: How to tame your power gamer?

    Here's a question, how old is the problem player relative to the rest of the group? I ask because this situation reeks of adolescent special snowflake syndrome.

    In any event, I would say that the best way to deal with this particular issue would be to say no, remind the player that as GM you have the final say, and give them the option of either accepting your decision or leaving.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

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