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2018-07-09, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Was 3rd edition the first edition that allowed for non-good rangers, and non-True Neutral Druids? Or was it also an option in 2nd edition DnD?
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2018-07-09, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
From what I recall, yes. Rangers were limited to Good alignments, while Druids had to be Neutral, in 2nd edition. There is a pretty good compilation of the 2nd edition rules at this link
Last edited by Eldonauran; 2018-07-09 at 06:40 PM.
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2018-07-09, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
In 2E, alignment restrictions were as follows:
Ranger: Any good.
Druid: True neutral only.
SpoilerLike the paladin, the ranger has a code of behavior.
A ranger must always retain his good alignment.Given this view of things, the druid must be neutral in alignment.
So yes, looks like 3E was the first edition to break the mould.Last edited by Thurbane; 2018-07-09 at 06:43 PM.
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2018-07-09, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Wasn't there a ranger kit that actually required evil? Something like those radical druids who want to burn civilisation?
Chaos is I.
Evil is Me.
Good is Us.
Law is We.
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2018-07-09, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Got my hands on a 2nd edition complete druid handbook, and reading through the Shadow Druid Section my impression was: "these guys constantly do evil and stuff to destroy civilization, but through game mechanic fiat they stay neutral aligned" book even comes out and says many of their actions result in evil and chaos, and they like to use things like evil lycanthropes, but somehow they stay neutral.....
Last edited by Yogibear41; 2018-07-09 at 07:04 PM.
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2018-07-09, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
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2018-07-09, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
There were race restrictions in 2e also, right? I remember Pikel being a Dwarf Druid being a big deal for some reason.
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Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2018-07-09, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Michigan
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2018-07-09, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
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2018-07-10, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Yes. They switched around a bit between 1e and 2e AD&D, 2e was more permissive than 1e was. I think 2e allowed gnomes to be druids as well as humans and half-elves. Elves were permitted to be rangers as well as humans and half-elves.
Also, multi-classing was only allowed for demi-humans (though only in certain combinations).Last edited by Thrudd; 2018-07-10 at 12:16 AM.
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2018-07-10, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
If I remember right, it was because humans could multi-class. Other races could dual-class, having two classes at a time, but humans could play as one class, go for a while, then say "Nah, done with this one" and start leveling in the second class. This was only applicable if you had pretty good attributes - like a 14 minimum for primary attributes for your new class.
When they did this, they lost all benefits from the first class except HP (which was a big thing because you only gained hit dice up to level 10 and then only gained one hp per level if I remember right). They only regained their original class abilities when you exceeded your previous class's highest level. Then you regain everything, but still have limits because certain class features are locked when you're wearing the wrong armor types. Oh, and you could never go back - once you multi-classed, you were done with the previous one.
You can see this being made into pure cheese in some of the Forgotten Realms books. Elminster in particular was a fighter first (for the health and attack bonuses), then a thief, then a cleric, and only then a wizard.You may think of me as:
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Book one is on the Kindle now. It's a mix of hard science fiction and fantasy. How's that work? Surprisingly well.
I share the ebook version of it freely. Link to download it is at the top of that page.
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2018-07-10, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
you're right, except you've got the terms reversed. Multi-class means having two or three classes at the same time, only demi-humans could do that. Dual class meant permanently changing to a new class via the process you mentioned, only humans were allowed with exceptional stats. And you actually needed a 17 in the prime requisites of the class you wanted to change to, and 15s in the requisites of your original class.
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2018-07-10, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Yay memory, only failing me a couple of times!
You may think of me as:
Struggling amateur author #3284728
Book one is on the Kindle now. It's a mix of hard science fiction and fantasy. How's that work? Surprisingly well.
I share the ebook version of it freely. Link to download it is at the top of that page.
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2018-07-10, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
And it introduced a new restriction "May not choose your own creature type as a Favoured Enemy unless you are Evil" - which 3.5e did away with.
3e druids still had some neutrality, with the "alignment must have at least one Neutral component" rule. 4e was the first edition in which you could have druid PCs or NPCs of any of the listed alignments - even LG or CE.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2018-07-10, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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2018-07-10, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
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2018-07-10, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
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2018-07-10, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Tula, Russia
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
From the officially published NPCs:
Forgotten Realms
Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves (March 1998)
Ajaar Aunglor XII - Ranger 11, Neutral Evil
Laosx Durothil - Ranger 7, True Neutral
Raerauntha Fynnasla - Ranger 12, Neutral Evil
Tehlmar Audark - Ranger 19, True Neutral
The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier (April 1996)
Maerovyna - Druid 9, Lawful Good
Planescape
Factol's Manifesto
Factol Pentar - Ranger 20, Chaotic Neutral
Jadex - Ranger 10, Chaotic Neutral
On Hallowed Ground
Beltain Firebrow - Druid 12, Neutral Good
Essylt y'Marc'h - Ranger 9, True Neutral
Proteus - Ranger 10, Chaotic Neutral
Planes of Chaos
Arnora the Fosterer - Ranger 14, Chaotic Neutral
Galen - Druid 14, Chaotic Good
Planes of Conflict
Brother Berrypaw the Black - Druid 7, Chaotic Good
Feleena the Clawed - Ranger 9, True Neutral
The Warden - Ranger 12, True Neutral
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2018-07-10, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- NYC
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-07-10, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
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2018-07-11, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Well, that was the only example of magic school race restrictions - because they turned the 1e illusionist class, which was open to gnomes, into one of the schools of magic for mages. So now gnomes could be mages, with a caveat. But it only went one way - elven mages were not restricted from being illusion specialists (when elves could not be illusionists in 1e).
When 2e first started, is was pretty close to 1e in terms of player options and restrictions.
later in 2e's time, restrictions were gradually lifted or given exceptions with the many race and class guides that came out as well as the different settings.
By the end of 2e's time, things were getting quite close to what 3e turned into, if you were using the Skills & Options book, the Combat & Tactics book, and the class kits from all the "complete X" books.
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2018-07-11, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Talos, having no Druid Levels, couldn't grant Druid spells in the first place. He had druid followers, but it would appear that he wasn't the direct source of their power.
He's still listed as a "Nature Deity" in the "playing Druids" section of FRCS - so I would guess that their power comes from Nature, and he is only a conduit rather than a source.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2018-07-11, 02:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-07-11, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Most bards I've played with tend to intertwine with lots of things, or at least try.
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2018-07-11, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
Indeed. Whenever I play for a bard, I tend to dabble in everything. I don't care where it came from or how unlikely it was that I would be able to utilize it for it to become effective. It was NEW and SHINY and I WANTED IT.
Ehem... That tendency happens to bleed over into most characters that I create. I gravitate towards classes that can fill various different roles and try to have something to do in every possible ecounter.
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2018-07-11, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- NYC
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I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
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2018-07-11, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
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2018-07-11, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Non-Good Rangers, Non-True Neutral Druids?
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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