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Thread: The Vagabond [Angel Poop]
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2018-07-12, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
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The Vagabond [Angel Poop]
Hello and hello! I'm a bit of a wild homebrewer with a lot of opinions, and over time I've become profoundly disappointed in some of the core classes of the game; There's a bit of a 'cool-creep' in classes, sort of similar to power creep except it means later classes introduced are more fun, even if not as effective, to play as others. Due to this, I've started a small, half-assedly worked on project by the name of 'Angel Poop'; The only purpose of the project is to remake base classes into a better, more fun designed style. Power balance in pathfinder is somewhat easy to pay attention to, but I an a firm hater of wasted power balance; One of my biggest gripes with this in base pathfinder were rangers receiving 1/3 casting: A workable, but ultimately super boring filler to a class.
Sure, I could just try and spasm out archetypes in order to hopefully get my view of a ranger to what I want them to be... Or I could make my own- and fix all the other issues with core ranger while I'm at it! Thus, the first project I started on, I called the 'Vagabond'. The Ranger re-envisioned in how I think rangers should be.
Notable class features
1. Favored Enemy is now variabled; You collect trophies off creatures you kill, and can 'activate' them in your hideout to turn a creature of that type into your favored enemy- Otherwise, the same limits apply.
2. Combat Style has been changed to provide a core ability use (Different per ability, such as shields gaining reach on threatened ranged for AOO's, or crossbows gaining crit range) alongside extra feats.
3. A 'Hideout', which is a moveable chunk of land that acts as a favored terrain of your highest bonus, and protects you and your allies inside of it from predators.
4. Survival Techniques, an array of different abilities that grant you (as the name says) defensive or survivalistic bonuses.
5. Graces: A combo set of skill upgrades to allow the vagabond to at least fulfill some sort of skill niche besides 'tracking'.
6. PoW and SoM Archetypes, as well as a 3/4 caster archetype that can easily be translated to SoP!
And much.. much more (Plus more to come!)
I've worked on this class on and off for some time, although mostly in short bursts. I'm not a freelancer or anything like that (although I can dream..), so most of my effort is dictated by how people like the class or criticism; which is why I bring it here! I'd love to hear any notes or suggestions at all on the class!
And without delaying further, here it is!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
I totally didn't just grind out 10 posts just to post this...
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2018-07-12, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: The Vagabond [Angel Poop]
Could I convince you to reconsider favored enemies? I don't mean your particular implementation. I'm saying it shouldn't be part of the ranger class at all. Allowing the ranger to change favored enemies helps, but I think a cornerstone class feature should be broadly applicable. As in, not only useful against certain creature types, even if those types are allowed to change.
Maybe there could be some ability themed on learning to fight certain foes, but I'd like to see it designed such that the knowledge gained in fights against them can also be of use in other situations. Like, if you spend enough time fighting kobolds, you learn how to find traps. But it works against all traps, not just those set by kobolds.
I don't normally advocate for specialization mechanics, but have you considered creating options that encourage the use of thematic weapons. I'd say bow, spears, and axes are the first ones that come to mind. Bows don't really need help. Axes are probably pretty okay too. I doubt very many people with martial weapon proficiency would use spears though. Maybe there could be a selectable class feature that gives a special benefit with those?
Traditionally, rangers have been required to choose a combat style. Honestly though, I don't see any particular reason they shouldn't be allowed to mix and match. Maybe the choices of bonus feat should be independent. So a ranger could select an archery one at one level, but then a two-weapon one at another. (Honestly though, I don't get how two-weapon fighting has the first thing to do with being a man of the wilderness.)
Instead of speacializing on fighting in certain environments, what if living in those environments has tought the ranger skills that can be applied elsewhere? So, favored terrain (desert) could give fire resistance. Favored terrain (underground) could give darkvision. Favored terrain (aquatic) could give a swim speed (or increase you existing swim speed). Favored terrain (plains) could increase your land speed. I don't know, whatever.
Given that druid is a full caster, I don't see what's so powerful about the ranger class that necessitates its animal companion be scaled back relative to druid.
I see that you're planning to have a sneak attack variant. I'd argue for proportioning that to a standard class feature. I mean, rangers are hunter. Hunters sneak up on things and shoot them before they're spotted. And they kind of need to get a one-hit kill, otherwise the animal runs off (and it's faster than they are). So, really sneak attack seems as much a skill of the trade for any woodsman as chopping down trees.
Maybe, at 1st level, each ranger could pick to either gain an animal companion (as ranger, none of this -3 stuff), or to gain the sneak attack ability of a rogue.
I like that you're including a rogue-talent style mechanic, but maybe you could up the frequency? And add a poison use one. Traditional hunters in some cultures use poison.
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2018-07-13, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
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- U.S
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Re: The Vagabond [Angel Poop]
First, I'd like to thank you for the detailed response! Part of this is what keeps me motivated to keep on fixing the class to hopefully hit a perfect spot.
I think that, although Ranger could totally be redone while entirely removing Favored Enemy- I sort of like the feature and it does hit one of the more defining thematic points of the class as it is. It can totally be done, and the power balance could be shifted somewhere else. Ultimately, I think even any further iterations of Vagabond are likely to keep Trophy Count as-is; I do want to keep the class to be familiar to the base class that it modifies anyhow.
I don't normally advocate for specialization mechanics, but have you considered creating options that encourage the use of thematic weapons. I'd say bow, spears, and axes are the first ones that come to mind. Bows don't really need help. Axes are probably pretty okay too. I doubt very many people with martial weapon proficiency would use spears though. Maybe there could be a selectable class feature that gives a special benefit with those?
Traditionally, rangers have been required to choose a combat style. Honestly though, I don't see any particular reason they shouldn't be allowed to mix and match. Maybe the choices of bonus feat should be independent. So a ranger could select an archery one at one level, but then a two-weapon one at another. (Honestly though, I don't get how two-weapon fighting has the first thing to do with being a man of the wilderness.)
Instead of speacializing on fighting in certain environments, what if living in those environments has tought the ranger skills that can be applied elsewhere? So, favored terrain (desert) could give fire resistance. Favored terrain (underground) could give darkvision. Favored terrain (aquatic) could give a swim speed (or increase you existing swim speed). Favored terrain (plains) could increase your land speed. I don't know, whatever.
Given that druid is a full caster, I don't see what's so powerful about the ranger class that necessitates its animal companion be scaled back relative to druid.
I see that you're planning to have a sneak attack variant. I'd argue for proportioning that to a standard class feature. I mean, rangers are hunter. Hunters sneak up on things and shoot them before they're spotted. And they kind of need to get a one-hit kill, otherwise the animal runs off (and it's faster than they are). So, really sneak attack seems as much a skill of the trade for any woodsman as chopping down trees.
Maybe, at 1st level, each ranger could pick to either gain an animal companion (as ranger, none of this -3 stuff), or to gain the sneak attack ability of a rogue.
I like that you're including a rogue-talent style mechanic, but maybe you could up the frequency? And add a poison use one. Traditional hunters in some cultures use poison.
Again, thank you for your response!AKA Wren.
I also homebrew a bunch of stuff and run heavily customized games; pretty much explicitly pathfinder.