Convenient 3-Feat Combos

[Seerow]

So in a mid-high level campaign, I am playing a Heartfire Fanner. This means I can grant up to 3 fighter bonus feats to each character in my group. Each character can choose their feats independently.

The problem was in our first session I used the ability, and everyone just kinda went "uhhh" and then picked a few generic core feats for simplicity, then moved on, so it had minimal impact. So now between sessions we're wanting to brainstorm some options that the characters would be interested in picking up that are more impactful, both generic "This is a useful boost for almost any fight" option, and also more niche combinations that might be really useful in one particular situation.

Current group setup includes two full casters (A Beguiler and a Warmage), an Arcane Gish (battle sorcerer/homebrewed Rage Mage), and a Psionic Gish (Monk/Psion into Slayer with Tashalatora). My character is a Cleric into Heartfire Fanner, my feats don't include much of use for either of the two casters, while that may change in the future, for right now we're looking solely at Fighter bonus feats.

The biggest challenge is figuring which fighter bonus feats are going to be relevant at all to the non-casters.

So far the best that I've found for non-casters is Dodge/Mobility/Elusive Target, as it gives them some defensive options, most notable the immunity to power attack. I feel like there should be more. I am also noticing the more I search the more feats I would have sworn are fighter feats (Evasive Reflexes, Extra Stunning, Superior Unarmed Strike/Improved natural Attack) are not. So anyone have some good general use suggestions?

[Venger]

take the shock trooper line.

[Covenant12]

Venger's is hard to beat for a gish-type, no joke. Especially if he has anklets of translocation/abrupt jaunt/any swift or free action movement.

Improved toughness is a fighter bonus feat. Beguiler will likely take that every time, and probably warmage as well.

For gish types cleave never hurts. I don't think improved initiative benefits you if you add it during combat. Wow, PHB fighter bonus feats are bad. Quick draw may have occasional use.

Definitely look at anything in complete warrior, not sure you'll find much else.

[Seerow]

Venger's is hard to beat for a gish-type, no joke. Especially if he has anklets of translocation/abrupt jaunt/any swift or free action movement.

Improved toughness is a fighter bonus feat. Beguiler will likely take that every time, and probably warmage as well.

For gish types cleave never hurts. I don't think improved initiative benefits you if you add it during combat. Wow, PHB fighter bonus feats are bad. Quick draw may have occasional use.

Definitely look at anything in complete warrior, not sure you'll find much else.

Yeah, Shock Trooper is high on the list. Getting both Shock Trooper and Combat Brute likely won't happen unless they take at least one of the feats.

I went on a deep dive through fighter bonus feats, and honestly found myself way more underwhelmed than anticipated. But I did find a few relevant things:


Generic Utility:
-Improved Initiative (assuming a ruling that this would push your spot on initiative up starting the following round)
-Dodge/Mobility/Elusive Target
-Blind Fight
-Improved Toughness
-Combat Expertise/Dodge/Melee Evasion
-Spectral Skirmisher (especially for the beguiler)

Martial Options:
-Combat Focus/Combat Defense/Combat Vigor (emergency healing/defense, not great but not terrible)
-Combat Reflexes/Robilar's Gambit (great option if there are any sort of choke points)
-Subduing Strike (for those times when you really want to take an enemy alive)
-Close Quarters Fighting (To tell all of the high level grapplers to screw off without needing to waste teleports and stuff)

For the Monk/Psion gish:
-Power Attack/Brutal Strike (doesn't have Power Attack yet, and Brutal Strike is a followup feat that makes PAing worth it despite the lower returns)
-Fiery Fist/Fiery Ki Defense (not actually particularly good feats, but since they give an extra use of stunning fist per day when taken, in theory it can be two extra stunning fist attempts [extra stunning is not a fighter feat] or free fire fist/aura)
-TWF/ITWF/GTWF (he's on the cusp of grabbing greater flurry, but tacking on 3 extra attacks for -2 to hit can be really good against some enemy types)
-Improved Critical/(Staggering Blow[fort or be stunned] and/or Staggering Critical[slowed on crit]) (I really wish there was some other way to boost crit threat range on an unarmed strike, but maybe there's a high crit monk weapon he could grab to use this?)


For Barbarian Gish:
-Cleave/Great Cleave (he's already got Power Attack, great for hordes of mooks)
-Combat Expertise/Improved Trip/Knockdown (good option against anything that does not have a significant size advantage on us)
-Improved Bullrush/Shock Trooper (generic go-to dpr option)
-(if large)Improved Bullrush/Knocback/Rampaging Bull Rush (I think he has enlarge person as a spell known, this makes for a lot of fun)
-Resounding Blow (he already has a keen weapon so no need for imp crit. This makes for a good add-on option for many fights as a critical hit debuff feat that does not require Improved Critical as a prerequisite)
-Improved Sunder/Combat Brute (for those times when extra damage is needed but regular charging does not seem feasible)

[Venger]

Venger's is hard to beat for a gish-type, no joke. Especially if he has anklets of translocation/abrupt jaunt/any swift or free action movement.

Improved toughness is a fighter bonus feat. Beguiler will likely take that every time, and probably warmage as well.

For gish types cleave never hurts. I don't think improved initiative benefits you if you add it during combat. Wow, PHB fighter bonus feats are bad. Quick draw may have occasional use.

Definitely look at anything in complete warrior, not sure you'll find much else.

Thanks.

It's stupidly only a fighter feat in cwar, mm5 forgot to tag it that way, but if your gm has two brain cells to rub together, he ought to allow it.

If you don't like any of these options for whatever reason, martial study and martial stance are fighter feats, and any character can be improved by the addition of some martial maneuvers/stances.

[RaiKirah]

If you don't like any of these options for whatever reason, martial study and martial stance are fighter feats, and any character can be improved by the addition of some martial maneuvers/stances.

I was planning on mentioning these if no one else had and then at the 11th hour I saw you'd got there already. Then I really wanted to use the "Swordsaged" thing, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to just being late to the conversation :(

[darkdragoon]

Powerful Charge->Greater

Improved Shield Bash->Shield Charge->Shield Slam

[PunBlake]

Most of the following is more defensive than what's been posted so far.

If your target has Int 13+, Combat Expertise -> Improved Trip -> Sweeping Trip is pretty funny. Note, I'm not saying it's good.
Armor Specialization (Medium or Heavy <named armor type>) will grant DR 2/- to an appropriate target (BAB 12+, wearing masterwork or better armor of named type).
Heavy Armor Optimization / Greater will improve an armor's AC by 1 and reduce Armor Check Penalty by 1 for each feat (req BAB 4+ / 8+), but dodge variants are usually better... (unless you are desperate to reduce Armor Check Penalty... drowning or stealth? Iffy.)
Point-Blank Shot -> Woodland Archer & Precise Shot is nice in a pinch.
I would generally say that the [Tactical, Fighter] feats represent good targets.

[Warrnan]

Dodge, combat expertise, karmic strike

I find this set of feats would be great. Extra defense if needed or more offense if that’s better.

[MeimuHakurei]

Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge. You can never go wrong with giving your teammates lances and ubercharge everything, especially if you're also a Crusader.

[CharonsHelper]

The combat manoeuvres can be situationally awesome - getting Combat Expertise & Improved X or Power Attack & Improved X.

For example - Improved Trip in 3.5 is great if you're fighting anything small & flying, especially if you're in the air too, since they'll fall to the ground.

Giving someone Improved Grapple after something already grabbed them can be really handy. Same thing with Blind-Fight & Shadowborn Warrior in the dark or after being blinded. Or against someone with Mirror Image up for that matter.

Cleave can be situationally useful. It's one of those not generally worth taking, but getting Great Cleave when fighting a bunch of mooks can be pretty sweet.

If someone already has Dodge, getting them Whirlwind Attack could be pretty handy from time to time.

If they're already in flanking position, giving two buddies Backstab can be very nice.

Mage Slayer can be nice if the caster in question can't 5ft step away. (Unfortunately I don't believe that there is a 3.5 equivalent of Pathfinder's Step Up.)

There are a lot of situational ones like Necropotent, Jungle Fighter, & Giantkiller which can be very nice if you're fighting the right thing or in the right place. Check here for a list - http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/f...hter&sorta=all

[BowStreetRunner]

...martial study and martial stance are fighter feats, and any character can be improved by the addition of some martial maneuvers/stances.

I started to look over what sort of combinations of Maneuvers and Stances you could pick up with a 3 feat combo this way...wow, there are a lot of options to consider. Here are a few thoughts on the possibilities:

So going through one discipline at a time, Group A maneuvers do not require another maneuver as a prerequisite. Group B maneuvers require one other maneuver (so can be taken before the stance) and Group C maneuvers require two (meaning you can take them after the stance, since the stance counts as a maneuver for fulfilling the prerequisites). Group A stances require no more than one maneuver (so the maneuver you take to qualify for the feat will be sufficient) while Group C stances require two other maneuvers (so you will need one maneuver from Group A and another from A or B). I've focused on lower level options (IL8), since the effective initiator level of the recipient will only be 1/2 their character level. If they are higher than 16th level, there may be other maneuvers for which they can qualify that don't have prerequisites of more than a 2 other maneuvers.

Spoiler: Desert Wind

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Group A Maneuvers: Blistering Flourish, Burning Blade, Distracting Ember, Wind Stride, Burning Brand and Death Mark.
Group B Maneuvers: Fire Riposte, Flashing Sun, Hatchling's Flame, Fan the Flames, Zephyr Dance, Searing Charge
Group C Maneuvers: Fire Snake, Searing Blade
Group A Stances: Flame's Blessing, Holocaust Cloak
Group B Stances: n/a

The primary reason to go with this line would be to pick up some decent fire damage. Death Mark, Holocaust Cloak, Fire Snake combo nicely, although there are still plenty of other options if the PC doesn't have the levels to qualify. The other target within this list would be the Fire Resistance, although it requires ranks in Tumble to use. Since you are probably using this against a creature that isn't vulnerable to fire itself, a good defensive combo would be Wind Stride, Flame's Blessing, Zephyr Dance.

Spoiler: Devoted Spirit

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Group A Maneuvers: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Foehammer, Shield Block
Group B Maneuvers: Defensive Rebuke, Revitalizing Strike, Divine Surge, Entangling Blade
Group C Maneuvers: n/a
Group A Stances: Iron Guard's Glare, Martial Spirit, Thicket of Blades
Group B Stances: n/a

There are two combos I like from this one. Crusader's Strike, Martial Spirit, and Revitalizing Strike work well to provide some extra healing. Shield Block, Iron Guard's Glare, and Defensive Rebuke work nicely for a party Tank. Against Damage Reduction, take Foehammer, Divine Surge, and add Mountain Hammer from Stone Dragon for a 3x Martial Study combo without the stance.

Spoiler: Diamond Mind

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Group A Maneuvers: Moment of Perfect Mind, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Action Before Thought, Emerald Razor, Insightful Strike, Mind Over Body
Group B Maneuvers: n/a
Group C Maneuvers: Bounding Assualt, Mind Strike, Ruby Nightmare Blade
Group A Stances: Stance of Clarity, Pearl of Black Doubt
Group B Stances: n/a

For a PC with a higher Concentration check than a saving throw, Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, and Mind Over Body offer a nice alternative to a save, and a 1 doesn't automatically fail. You might even go Martial Study x3 instead of doing Martial Stance with one if you are afraid of facing a save or die situation. Otherwise, take Pearl of Black doubt with whichever save maneuver is needed and improve your defense.

Spoiler: Iron Heart

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Group A Maneuvers: Steel Wind, Steely Strike, Disarming Strike, Wall of Blades
Group B Maneuvers: Exorcism of Steel, Iron Heart Surge
Group C Maneuvers: Lightning Recovery, Mithral Tornado
Group A Stances: Punishing Stance, Absolute Steel Stance
Group B Stances: n/a

For a high damage melee PC, Steel Wind, Punishing Stance, and Mithral Tornado are a good combo. Another option is Wall of Blades, Absolute Steel Stance, and Iron Heart Surge for defense and mobility.

Spoiler: Setting Sun

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Group A Maneuvers: Counter Charge, Mighty Throw, Clever Positioning
Group B Maneuvers: Baffling Defense, Devastating Throw, Feigned Opening, Comet Throw
Group C Maneuvers: Strike of the Broken Shield
Group A Stances: Step of the Wind, Giant Killing Stiyle
Group B Stances: n/a

This combo I like from this discipline suits small characters well: Counter Charge, Giant Killing Style, Comet Throw. Step of the Wind is nice to overcome difficult terrain, but many of the maneuvers are very dependent upon the PC's fighting style so it's hard to suggest a specific combination to go with that stance.

Spoiler: Shadow Hand

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Group A Maneuvers: Clinging Shadow Strike, Shadow Blade Technique, Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Garrote, Hand of Death
Group B Maneuvers: Drain Vitality, Strength Draining Strike
Group C Maneuvers: Obscuring Shadow Veil
Group A Stances: Child of Shadow, Island of Blades, Dance of the Spider, Assassin's Stance
Group B Stances: n/a

Rogues are going to want Cloak of Deception and Assassin's Stance, although you might take Distracting Ember from Desert Wind as your third in this case. For mobility, Shadow Jaunt and Dance of the Spider would go well with Wind Stride, again from Desert Wind. When neither sneak attack nor climbing are needed, Child of Shadow would be a good replacement for the stance in either case.

Spoiler: Stone Dragon

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Group A Maneuvers: Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones, Mountain Hammer, Stone Vise, Bonesplitting Strike, Boulder Roll, Overwhelming Mountain Strike
Group B Maneuvers: Stone Dragon's Fury
Group C Maneuvers: Bonecrusher
Group A Stances: Crushing Weight of the Mountain, Roots of the Mountain, Stonefoot Stance
Group B Stances: n/a

Stone Dragon maneuvers can only be initiated if in contact with the ground, so make sure of your terrain before using any of these.

Spoiler: Tiger Claw

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Group A Maneuvers: Wolf Fang Strike, Claw at the Moon, Rabid Wolf Strike
Group B Maneuvers: Sudden Leap, Soaring Raptor Strike, Death From Above
Group C Maneuvers: Flesh Ripper, Fountain of Blood
Group A Stances: Blood in the Water, Hunter's Sense, Leaping Dragon Stance, Wolverine Stance
Group B Stances: n/a

A great TWF crit-fisher combo is going to be Wolf Fang Strike, Blood in the Water, and then Steel Wind from Iron Heart. If you have a PC who is good at jumping then Claw at the Moon, Leaping Dragon Stance, and Death from Above work well together.

Spoiler: White Raven

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Group A Maneuvers: Douse the Flames, Leading the Attack,
Group B Maneuvers: Battle Leader's Charge, Tactical Strike, Lion's Roar, White Raven Tactics, Covering Strike, White Raven Strike
Group C Maneuvers: n/a
Group A Stances: Bolstering Voice, Leading the Charge, Tactics of the Wolf,
Group B Stances: n/a

There are two combos I like from this one. Leading the Attack, Leading the Charge, and Battle Leader's Charge is a nice combo for a full frontal attack situation. For more of a swarm attack, try using Douse the Flames, Tactics of the Wolf, and White Raven Tactics.

[Darrin]

Blind-Fight, Mage Slayer, and Pierce Magical Concealment. Requires spellcraft 2, but that's not too high a hurdle for most meatbags.

If you already have Blind-Fight, then Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, and Combat Awareness gets you Fast Healing 4 and Blindsight 5'.

Improved Critical, Power Critical, and Staggering Critical (DotU) have something of a thematic flavor.

EWP: Hand Crossbow, Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU), and Crossbow Sniper (PHB2) might be interesting. If you're already proficient, you could throw Dead Eye (DragComp) or Verstatile Combatant on there.

[Seerow]

Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge. You can never go wrong with giving your teammates lances and ubercharge everything, especially if you're also a Crusader.

It is situationally great if we have mounts around. The perfect sort of thing for this, thanks for pointing it out.

If your target has Int 13+, Combat Expertise -> Improved Trip -> Sweeping Trip is pretty funny. Note, I'm not saying it's good.

This is actually pretty great CC option, I didn't know sweeping trip was a thing (apparently from Dragon Magazine), so that's a great one to add to the repertoire.

Armor Specialization (Medium or Heavy <named armor type>) will grant DR 2/- to an appropriate target (BAB 12+, wearing masterwork or better armor of named type).
Heavy Armor Optimization / Greater will improve an armor's AC by 1 and reduce Armor Check Penalty by 1 for each feat (req BAB 4+ / 8+), but dodge variants are usually better... (unless you are desperate to reduce Armor Check Penalty... drowning or stealth? Iffy.)

These are both decent enough defensive options, but my character is currently the only character in the party wearing real armor, so not a particularly relevant thing right now.

Point-Blank Shot -> Woodland Archer & Precise Shot is nice in a pinch.

Probably not for this party (they all have blasting magic of some sort or another as a decent ranged backup, good enough at least that pulling out a bow even with a handful of feats is probably suboptimal), but not a bad call.

I started to look over what sort of combinations of Maneuvers and Stances you could pick up with a 3 feat combo this way...wow, there are a lot of options to consider. Here are a few thoughts on the possibilities:

This is incredibly useful, thank you for making that list!

Blind-Fight, Mage Slayer, and Pierce Magical Concealment. Requires spellcraft 2, but that's not too high a hurdle for most meatbags.

This is actually one of the ones that really threw me when I found out that Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Concealment are not fighter bonus feats. So yes, awesome feats, but sadly not an option here.

[WeaselGuy]

-Improved Critical/(Staggering Blow[fort or be stunned] and/or Staggering Critical[slowed on crit]) (I really wish there was some other way to boost crit threat range on an unarmed strike, but maybe there's a high crit monk weapon he could grab to use this?)

A Kaorti Resin Skillful, Ki Focus Kukri should have a threat range of 15-20 x4, and while it's not usable on a flurry, you can still do your Ki attacks with it. Also spikes up your BAB to cleric levels, and you don't require profiency to use it. I'm still hunting for a way to make it a monk weapon, but right now about the only thing that's coming to my mind are some Ebberon monk feats that let you use longswords. There might be one for Scimitars too, but I'm super rusty on Ebberon stuff right now.

[Venger]

A Kaorti Resin Skillful, Ki Focus Kukri should have a threat range of 15-20 x4, and while it's not usable on a flurry, you can still do your Ki attacks with it. Also spikes up your BAB to cleric levels, and you don't require profiency to use it. I'm still hunting for a way to make it a monk weapon, but right now about the only thing that's coming to my mind are some Ebberon monk feats that let you use longswords. There might be one for Scimitars too, but I'm super rusty on Ebberon stuff right now.

Nice stacking. If you can take unorthodox flurry or dip shou disciple, you can flurry with it as well.

Here's a list of ways to add weapons to the monk list:

Is your build set?

What options are you open to re: adding more weapons to your proficiency list? Feats? acfs? sub levels? or are dips on the table?

regardless of your answers, i've assembled a spread for you:

CLASSES
master of masks (complete scoundrel) skills are a little annoying, but a 1+ lvl dip in master of masks gives proficiency with all weapons. I'll look for ways to make stuff you're proficient with special monk weapons.

shou disciple (dragon compendium) lets you treat all light as monk weapons and later any melee weapons

FEATS
pole master (secrets of sarlona) lets you make any hafted weapon (like a spear, guisarme, etc) into a monk weapon. I advise you take the duom, which can beat up bad guys adjacent and at 10 feet and paladin provides access to since it's martial

double steel strike: (eberron campaign setting) gives you two-bladed sword

serpent strike: (eberron campaign setting) gives you longspear

unorthodox flurry (dragon compendium) do monk stuff with any light weapon. buy an aptitude weapon and apply this feat to whatever weapon you want and you're done. also has no prereqs, so this is a winner.

BOOKS
oriental adventures, without any investment adds a bunch of weapons to your list: butterfly sword, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, javelin, jitte, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and tonfa, butterfly sword, club, jitte, kama, lajatang,
nekode, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, three-section staff, and tonfa

so you can check which of those are one or two handed

[Darrin]

This is actually one of the ones that really threw me when I found out that Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Concealment are not fighter bonus feats. So yes, awesome feats, but sadly not an option here.

According to the table in Complete Arcane, there's a 1 superscript by both of those feats, which identifies them as eligible fighter bonus feats.

[Seerow]

According to the table in Complete Arcane, there's a 1 superscript by both of those feats, which identifies them as eligible fighter bonus feats.

An argument worth raising for sure, but the text of the feat has nothing to specify it's a fighter bonus feat, either through tag or special. Most likely an oversight, but how it is ruled can definitely vary by table.

[BowStreetRunner]

An argument worth raising for sure, but the text of the feat has nothing to specify it's a fighter bonus feat, either through tag or special. Most likely an oversight, but how it is ruled can definitely vary by table.

The text does not contradict the table in this case. This is significantly different than things like the Rainbow Servant, where the text says one thing and the table shows something that would goes completely against the text. In this case, the text does not address the question at all. The only reference to Fighter Bonus Feats in the entire book is the reference on the table.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you have a psion, (Greater) Power Specialization could help with Ray damage, especially with metapsionic feats to give some extra boosts. Add in the A&EG's sorcerer's hand crossbow and Weapon Focus (Crossbow) for even more oomph. Or even just WF (Ray).

[Bronk]

-Improved Initiative (assuming a ruling that this would push your spot on initiative up starting the following round)

I think you'd need to get it going before initiative is rolled, judging from the immediate action it takes to get 'nerveskitter' going.