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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    And when exactly did generally accepted become RAI or RAW?
    Yeah the RAW is explicitly clear on this: ďWhen attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifieróthe same modifier used for the attack rolló to the damage.ď Iím not sure why you think itís not RAW, but unless something tells you not to add the mod, you add the mod.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    So this is practically Polearm Master feat for 100 gp., if we exaggerate? Did I understand what the special does correctly?

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    Look at the rules for making an attack. The default is add mod to any weapon attack.

    Do you think PAM doesnít add mod on the other attack?

    Donít be ridiculous now.

    Look at the combat section before you make claims
    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    Yeah the RAW is explicitly clear on this: ďWhen attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifieróthe same modifier used for the attack rolló to the damage.ď Iím not sure why you think itís not RAW, but unless something tells you not to add the mod, you add the mod.
    I could swear I didn't see that part in there for some reason. Honestly, my mistake. Apparently you do add the modifier, so the weapon is perhaps slightly off balance. (Luckily, Wayfinder's Guide is ─ by Baker's words ─ subject to change at any time. It's not a finished product; it's more like in Unearthed Arcana playtest status.)

    Quote Originally Posted by z3rO1 View Post
    So this is practically Polearm Master feat for 100 gp., if we exaggerate? Did I understand what the special does correctly?
    More or less, yes. It's a bit overtuned at the moment, but I'd be surprised if they didn't downgrade it soon-ish.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-07-27 at 07:03 AM.
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    I prefer straightforwardness and honesty over veiled insults and mindgames. Can you say the same?

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    More or less, yes. It's a bit overtuned at the moment, but I'd be surprised if they didn't downgrade it soon-ish.
    Well, I mean, hopefully they will. Or I will have to ask for a refund on my Polearm Master. Some puny stiched together swords conquering my Halberd is unforgivable!
    Last edited by z3rO1; 2018-07-27 at 07:06 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by z3rO1 View Post
    Well, I mean, hopefully they will. Or I will have to ask for a refund on my Polearm Master. Some puny stiched together swords conquering my Halberd is unforgivable!

    PAM also allows you to make an AoO when things approach, the dbs+revenant blade does not.


    I'd like to see a strength based nifty toy though, maybe gnoll myrnaxe, war troll cleaver, etc. It could even be paired with powerful build to really make that worth something.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Bloat continues to arrive; is Mearls in charge of this project? Why can't they fold Eberron into the basic 5e chassis?
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2018-07-27 at 08:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Bloat continues to arrive; is Mearls in charge of this project? Why can't they fold Eberron into the basic 5e chassis?
    Bloat has always been a factor in D&D.

    Might be time to start my non-AL but AL ďlikeĒ campaign world design.
    I play AL games only nowdays.

    Preferences: Role play over optimization; Dwarf over Gnome over Variant Human; War games over FRPG; Zorro over Batman over everyone else.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Bloat continues to arrive; is Mearls in charge of this project? Why can't they fold Eberron into the basic 5e chassis?
    because they made pains to exclude eberron & darksun from that "basic 5e chassis?" in order to fit more "absolutely not forgotten realms default setting of forgotten realms" & that sort of careless lore dumping was awful the last couple times they tried it with eberron. Mike Mearls is listed under "additiional design" design & lead design are eberron people.

    Rather than being upset that eberron adds "bloat", perhaps you should be upset that it's lore was excluded from "the basic 5e chassis" making it a requirement to add stuff in order to do eberron?... or are you more upset that eberron itself is getting some official support resulting in a good bit of additional content now that it's allowed on dmsguild?
    Last edited by Tetrasodium; 2018-07-27 at 08:21 AM.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    As far as bloat and why can't Eberron be folded into the basic 5e Chassis...

    Keith Baker just did a FAQ on the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron.

    He wrote it. That's him. WOTC approached him about including Eberron in 5E. Now, its important to note, WOTC OWNS EBERRON. They do. Its theirs. Keith made it, but because he made it while working for WOTC, contractually, it doesn't belong to him. (This is why Monte Cook doesn't work for WOTC now, long and short of it, but that's another story)

    WOTC went to Keith and said, "We want to bring Eberron to 5E. We want you involved."

    And Keith got to work, and busted out the 110+ pages on Eberron lore. He also worked with Mearls, Crawford, and the rest of the team to make the mechanics of things work with 5E. He's counting on the community to help refine the mechanics and playtest all the mechanics.

    Until its refined more, it will not receive the Adventurer's League stamp of approval.

    Among other questions he answered were about Warforged and their integrated armor. The intent is that Warforged are innately enchanted creatures, and while they start with basically the maximum armor value granted by their proficiency (Essentially Plate if you get Heavy Armor, etc) they also are incapable of wearing armor. Especially magical armor. So while the value of the AC may be high, they'll always be at Disadvantage in Stealth because they can't get Mithral. They'll always be susceptible to Critical Hits because they can't get Adamantium. Etc.

    On the Artificer: Keith is not designing the Artificer and has nothing to do with it. That's the core WOTC design team. That's on them. It WILL be included in the Wayfinder's Guide as a free update, Mearls said it should be coming next month.

    Also, this part is very important and relates directly to the Double Bladed Scimitar: Eberron is a high magic world. Magic items are less rare than they typically are in other worlds. As a result, the numbers of things are typically higher. Therefore, in the world of Eberron, the Double Bladed Scimitar should be relatively fine, compared to other things players might get. Remember, its designed for a particular world. Its not supposed to be in Forgotten Realms or Grayhawk or Mystara.
    Last edited by jaappleton; 2018-07-27 at 09:02 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Among other questions he answered were about Warforged and their integrated armor. The intent is that Warforged are innately enchanted creatures, and while they start with basically the maximum armor value granted by their proficiency (Essentially Plate if you get Heavy Armor, etc) they also are incapable of wearing armor. Especially magical armor. So while the value of the AC may be high, they'll always be at Disadvantage in Stealth because they can't get Mithral. They'll always be susceptible to Critical Hits because they can't get Adamantium. Etc.
    I know youíre just relaying info, JA, so this isnít directed at you, just using your postís info.

    I really dislike the design of the Warforged. Scaling Plate armor, from level 1, at the cost of ďwell itís not Mithril or Admantium!Ē, isnít good design.

    Thatís like saying the level 1 fighter should start with +1 Plate for free because ďit isnít +3 plate!Ē

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    I know youíre just relaying info, JA, so this isnít directed at you, just using your postís info.

    I really dislike the design of the Warforged. Scaling Plate armor, from level 1, at the cost of ďwell itís not Mithril or Admantium!Ē, isnít good design.

    Thatís like saying the level 1 fighter should start with +1 Plate for free because ďit isnít +3 plate!Ē
    I understand what you're saying.

    Considering the sheer cost of plate mail, I'm not a fan of anyone starting off with it, either. That's not something you should have from level 1.

    I like how they did it for Light Armor and Medium Armor. Heavy? Not really a fan.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I understand what you're saying.

    Considering the sheer cost of plate mail, I'm not a fan of anyone starting off with it, either. That's not something you should have from level 1.

    I like how they did it for Light Armor and Medium Armor. Heavy? Not really a fan.
    I could live without the heavy plating as an option right from the get-go.

    Heavy plating could be a racial feat for the Warforged.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-07-27 at 10:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I understand what you're saying.

    Considering the sheer cost of plate mail, I'm not a fan of anyone starting off with it, either. That's not something you should have from level 1.

    I like how they did it for Light Armor and Medium Armor. Heavy? Not really a fan.

    what cost Literally my fighter 1 wizard 2 gnome was effectively given a set of gnome sized plate floating in a gelatinous cube last night. The reason I was 1/2 instead of 1/1 is because almost half the group was missing last week due to life issues & we wound up taking a restbefore going on that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I could live without the heavy plating as an option right from the get-go.

    Heavy plating could be a racial feat for the Warforged.
    Feats are very much more valuable in 5e than before. Put into perspective, heavy armor master gives +1 strength and dr3/magic. Medium armor magic gives a dex cap of 3 in medium armor and no more medium armor stealth disadvantage. It does not need to be & should not be a feat just to ensure warforged will fit into some hypothetical low magic low resource campaign because other races already provide a simple solution. Tiefling drow & several orther races have abilities that unlock at level 2/5/etc. I'm not convinced that even that sort of delay is even needed though because those hypothetical no magic low resource campaigns people keep mentioning are almost certainly well outside the norm.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Regarding the weapon (and all the Eberron new races) I would like to point out that the 5e mechanics presented in WGtE were designed by Keith Baker with the help of Ruty Rutemberg.

    Rutemberg is the same guy responsible for a DM's Guild book called Xanathar's Lost Notes on Everything Else.

    If any of you has had a chance to read up on XLNtEE you'll notice the same type of inbalance present in the double scimitar and the Eberron races.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Feats are very much more valuable in 5e than before. Put into perspective, heavy armor master gives +1 strength and dr3/magic. Medium armor magic gives a dex cap of 3 in medium armor and no more medium armor stealth disadvantage. It does not need to be & should not be a feat just to ensure warforged will fit into some hypothetical low magic low resource campaign because other races already provide a simple solution. Tiefling drow & several orther races have abilities that unlock at level 2/5/etc. I'm not convinced that even that sort of delay is even needed though because those hypothetical no magic low resource campaigns people keep mentioning are almost certainly well outside the norm.
    I though it would be obvious that, if the Heavy Plating was a racial feat, it would at the very least be a half-feat and maybe give something extra on top. Apparently people think so little of me....
    #SadFace
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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    what cost Literally my fighter 1 wizard 2 gnome was effectively given a set of gnome sized plate floating in a gelatinous cube last night.
    Just because your DM hands out equipment like candy doesn't mean it's supposed to be. The game presupposes that a martial character will not be able to afford plate until somewhere between level 5 and 6 unless literally everyone in the party spends all their money on one character. Full Plate generally comes with the jump to 2nd Tier. That's not an accident.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    what cost Literally my fighter 1 wizard 2 gnome was effectively given a set of gnome sized plate floating in a gelatinous cube last night. The reason I was 1/2 instead of 1/1 is because almost half the group was missing last week due to life issues & we wound up taking a restbefore going on that way.
    Is your argument that because your DM gave you plate mail last night at level 3, that itís fine, RAW, for level 1 characters to start out with plate at no cost?

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I though it would be obvious that, if the Heavy Plating was a racial feat, it would at the very least be a half-feat and maybe give something extra on top. Apparently people think so little of me....
    #SadFace
    Not thinking little of you, just acknowledging & drawing attention to the absurdity of the worries people are bringing up in regards to warforged in some hypothetical very unusual campaign world. After the numbers were broken down too clearly for the people voicing concern to continue with the "ac is too high"chant so they switched to talking about warforged in a hypothetical very low resource campaign world where saving for plate armor till higher levels.

    In this thread and others, people have talked about how x race gets Y(plus a bunch of unmentioned stuff) while warforged get xyz (often not leaving anything out or comparing two specific features in isolation). When considering races like tiefling/high elf/etc with a cantrip at 1, nobody thinks "hey, will this still fit in a limited resource campaign without cantrips?". Warforged should not be subject to similarly absurd considerations. If locking off the heavy plating till level 2/3/5 is warranted sure. but I don't think compromise for compromise sake is warranted given that it's only a "problem" if scarce resources are an important factor in the campaign & having nice armor under those conditions is a big part of the warforged's wheelhouse.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    What is its stats?

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Just because your DM hands out equipment like candy doesn't mean it's supposed to be. The game presupposes that a martial character will not be able to afford plate until somewhere between level 5 and 6 unless literally everyone in the party spends all their money on one character. Full Plate generally comes with the jump to 2nd Tier. That's not an accident.
    I can't help but notice that you omitted this part of my post to make that point:
    Feats are very much more valuable in 5e than before. Put into perspective, heavy armor master gives +1 strength and dr3/magic. Medium armor magic gives a dex cap of 3 in medium armor and no more medium armor stealth disadvantage. It does not need to be & should not be a feat just to ensure warforged will fit into some hypothetical low magic low resource campaign because other races already provide a simple solution. Tiefling drow & several other races have abilities that unlock at level 2/5/etc. I'm not convinced that even that sort of delay is even needed though because those hypothetical no magic low resource campaigns people keep mentioning are almost certainly well outside the norm.

    It's almost like you realized that it defeated the entire absurd claim that the heavy plating needs to be more limited so warforged are just like meat based races. People are quick to whine about how a variant human fighter (starting with mobile/PAM/Sentinel or something) couldn't afford to buy plate for a few levels, but those same people don't want to talk about how the meat based race can upgrade their armor with any kind of magic armor they come across or starts with racial stuff of their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsp29a View Post
    Is your argument that because your DM gave you plate mail last night at level 3, that itís fine, RAW, for level 1 characters to start out with plate at no cost?
    That is not what I said at all, you too needed to chop out most of my post in order to make that absurd claim. It's almost like you realized that your point is ridiculous and can not be supported so you gave up even attempting to & have continued to resort to "prove my assumption wrong" tactics rather than showing why it is right. It's not the end of the world if a player starts with 18 base ac because they can already start with 17 & dr3/magic (variant human defensive fighting style, fighter/paladin starting chainmail. a forge cleric can do the same with their starting chain mail & blessing of the forge)..

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    What is its stats?
    100 gp, 2d4 slashing, 6lbs, Special, two-handed.

    Special: When you take the attack action and make a two-handed attack with a double-bladed scimitar, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the blade at the opposite end of the weapon. This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack. The weapon's damage die for this attack is a d4, and it deals slashing damage.
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    I prefer straightforwardness and honesty over veiled insults and mindgames. Can you say the same?

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Not thinking little of you, just acknowledging & drawing attention to the absurdity of the worries people are bringing up in regards to warforged in some hypothetical very unusual campaign world. After the numbers were broken down too clearly for the people voicing concern to continue with the "ac is too high"chant so they switched to talking about warforged in a hypothetical very low resource campaign world where saving for plate armor till higher levels.

    In this thread and others, people have talked about how x race gets Y(plus a bunch of unmentioned stuff) while warforged get xyz (often not leaving anything out or comparing two specific features in isolation). When considering races like tiefling/high elf/etc with a cantrip at 1, nobody thinks "hey, will this still fit in a limited resource campaign without cantrips?". Warforged should not be subject to similarly absurd considerations. If locking off the heavy plating till level 2/3/5 is warranted sure. but I don't think compromise for compromise sake is warranted given that it's only a "problem" if scarce resources are an important factor in the campaign & having nice armor under those conditions is a big part of the warforged's wheelhouse.
    Eberron's always been a higher power level campaign setting. It even had custom high power rules in its original incarnation (the original action points). You can't reliably buy powerful magic items, as people like to quickly point out, but that's not to say they aren't present and even plentiful- go to Xen'Drik, infiltrate Riedra or Argonessia, dig into Khyber, traipse across the other planes, even raid the remains of pre-Galifar ruins and you're likely to come across cataclysmic magical artifacts, things that make what's present in the DMG rather tame by comparison.

    This is the world that the warforged belong in. Any world that doesn't use these same expectations really shouldn't be including them, and that's the sane answer- how is your low magic setting making magical golem soldiers, anyway? Much like a lot of Eberron players wanted core expectations kept out of it, Eberron's rules should likewise be built solely for Eberron with no care of how they port back.

    The double scimitar is kind of the same, in regards to being over-the-top for an over-the-top setting. But I still really wish TWF was improved to match.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    I can't help but notice that you omitted this part of my post to make that point:.
    Sorry, the other half was separated by another quote so I thought it was a separate subject and didn't read it. My bad.

    Yes, I agree, I think using the level "gating" on other racial abilities is where this needs to end up.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    That is not what I said at all, you too needed to chop out most of my post in order to make that absurd claim. It's almost like you realized that your point is ridiculous and can not be supported so you gave up even attempting to & have continued to resort to "prove my assumption wrong" tactics rather than showing why it is right. It's not the end of the world if a player starts with 18 base ac because they can already start with 17 & dr3/magic (variant human defensive fighting style, fighter/paladin starting chainmail. a forge cleric can do the same with their starting chain mail & blessing of the forge)..
    I asked a question; I wasnít making any claim. Hereís what you quoted, and posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I understand what you're saying.

    Considering the sheer cost of plate mail, I'm not a fan of anyone starting off with it, either. That's not something you should have from level 1.

    I like how they did it for Light Armor and Medium Armor. Heavy? Not really a fan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    what cost Literally my fighter 1 wizard 2 gnome was effectively given a set of gnome sized plate floating in a gelatinous cube last night. The reason I was 1/2 instead of 1/1 is because almost half the group was missing last week due to life issues & we wound up taking a restbefore going on that way.
    Your quote very much answers JAís post regarding the cost of plate mail, with ďwhat costĒ and then a story of how your 3rd level character got plate for free.

    Iím not sure why you think my question equals an absurd claim. Iím also not sure why you think you didnít post that story (based off your ďthatís not what I said at allĒ statement) that very much implies youíre stating there is no cost to plate mail as you can just get it for free at level 3.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Personally, I'd lower the innate armor and create "armore core" magic item to modify it, maybe even racial feat for spikes/wings/claws/inbuilt weapon and whatnot. It was already a bit like that in 3.5.

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcloud View Post
    Personally, I'd lower the innate armor and create "armore core" magic item to modify it, maybe even racial feat for spikes/wings/claws/inbuilt weapon and whatnot. It was already a bit like that in 3.5.
    I suppose you would be free to do that in your game, but why would you? multiple people have shown that the ac is not a problem by breaking down the numbers & rather than dispute that you are moving straight to "well lets compromise anyways".

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    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    100 gp, 2d4 slashing, 6lbs, Special, two-handed.

    Special: When you take the attack action and make a two-handed attack with a double-bladed scimitar, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the blade at the opposite end of the weapon. This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack. The weapon's damage die for this attack is a d4, and it deals slashing damage.
    Thanks thats pretty cool but why are people calling OP about it? Less damage than a great sword with GWM especially if the bonus action is triggered, only thing is that you donít need the feat tax for bonus attack which is quite nice, would be a cool Kensai weapon tho!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    I suppose you would be free to do that in your game, but why would you? multiple people have shown that the ac is not a problem by breaking down the numbers & rather than dispute that you are moving straight to "well lets compromise anyways".
    For a level 1 character who wants to use heavy armor, the best you can expect at character creation is chainmail, for 16 AC. A Warforged gets 18. That's a sizeable difference. A level 17 character rocking +3 platemail has 21 AC; a Warforged has 22 and an extra major magic item's worth of gold or treasure points.

    For a level 1 character who uses light armor, let's assume we're talking about a 16 Dex Rogue. You start with 14 AC, since you get leather armor. A warforged with the same Dex starts with 16 AC. At 17 with 20 Dex, we have 20 AC on our rogue in +3 studded leather armor and 22 on our warforged, who again has an extra major magic item's worth of gold or treasure points.

    For a level 1 medium armor user, we'll assume 14 Dex. We get scale mail at level 1 from our package, so we have 15 AC with our +2 modifier. The level 1 warforged has 17. At level 17, we've upgraded to +3 half plate for 20 AC; the warforged has 21 and, again, an extra major magic item's worth of gold or treasure points.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Vinland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacehamster View Post
    Thanks thats pretty cool but why are people calling OP about it? Less damage than a great sword with GWM especially if the bonus action is triggered, only thing is that you donít need the feat tax for bonus attack which is quite nice, would be a cool Kensai weapon tho!
    I think Kensai is actually the one that will get the least use out of it since Monk already has a 1d4 bonus action attack right out of the box.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

    Join Date
    Jun 2017

    Default Re: Double bladed scimitar

    Thanks thats pretty cool but why are people calling OP about it? Less damage than a great sword with GWM especially if the bonus action is triggered, only thing is that you donít need the feat tax for bonus attack which is quite nice, would be a cool Kensai weapon tho!
    Because before, to have an extra attack people had to either pay a feat tax with Polearm Master, Two-Weapon Fighter, or an subclass+exhaustion tax with Berserker or Battlerager. Well, no exhaustion on Battlerager, but still.

    Now to get an extra attack you need to...Pay 100 gp.
    Last edited by z3rO1; 2018-07-27 at 02:38 PM.

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