Why can't my golems be human sized?

[Mr.nyalathotep]

This culture has a unique tradition in which warriors can continue to serve their country after death. This is an honor awarded only to a select few who distinguish themselves in battle. Their souls are recalled from the after life and placed into a construct called a golem. Although their souls are housed in this unit, they are not "alive". Emotions, memories, etc have passed on to the other side, and they are basically automatons that control the golem. They are used for guardship, or as a specialized unit in the military, and other matters related to defense.

These golems are human shape, but massive: about 10 - 15 ft, similar to a small Gundam or megazord. They are powerful and expensive to build. I need a reason for why this nation doesn't choose to build them smaller. Why can't these golems be human sized?

[noob]

This culture has a unique tradition in which warriors can continue to serve their country after death. This is an honor awarded only to a select few who distinguish themselves in battle. Their souls are recalled from the after life and placed into a construct called a golem. Although their souls are housed in this unit, they are not "alive". Emotions, memories, etc have passed on to the other side, and they are basically automatons that control the golem. They are used for guardship, or as a specialized unit in the military, and other matters related to defense.

These golems are human shape, but massive: about 10 - 15 ft, similar to a small Gundam or megazord. They are powerful and expensive to build. I need a reason for why this nation doesn't choose to build them smaller. Why can't these golems be human sized?

If souls that are worthy of being put in golems are rare and considered honourable then it makes sense that we put a lot of budget for the body in which those souls are housed and a bigger body could make a stronger golem.
maybe the family of the dead person(or the funds of the dead person he did give for his grave) will also help in funding the creation of the golem to have the biggest golem the same way rich people often make the biggest graves(and the people likely to have that honour are probably rich people)

[the_david]

Because bigger golems are stronger? Why would you waste resources (souls) on golems that are easily destroyed?

[TheStranger]

If souls that are worthy of being put in golems are rare and considered honourable then it makes sense that we put a lot of budget for the body in which those souls are housed and a bigger body could make a stronger golem.
maybe the family of the dead person(or the funds of the dead person he did give for his grave) will also help in funding the creation of the golem to have the biggest golem the same way rich people often make the biggest graves(and the people likely to have that honour are probably rich people)

This. Since when has anybody ever needed a reason to make something bigger? Especially a memorial?

But if you need a practical reason, making them human sized would mean that all the joints needed to be more delicate and harder to build.

[jwhouk]

...There are these three (or is that four?) ladies over in Minneapolis that would disagree with you.

[noob]

...There are these three (or is that four?) ladies over in Minneapolis that would disagree with you.

The person who created the thread asked for a reason why people would not make human sized golems in his own setting and the premise was that his golems were not sapient.
So I do not see how your post is relevant.

[jwhouk]

True, true. However, these four golems are "human sized". In fact, the story includes a miniature "prototype" model (made from a squirrel?). So size really doesn't matter, to be honest.

I'd pull Giant's maxim in this - The rules are important, until they get in the way of the story. And if "normal size" golems are part of the story, then go for it.

[TheStranger]

True, true. However, these four golems are "human sized". In fact, the story includes a miniature "prototype" model (made from a squirrel?). So size really doesn't matter, to be honest.

I'd pull Giant's maxim in this - The rules are important, until they get in the way of the story. And if "normal size" golems are part of the story, then go for it.

Yes, but OP explicitly said that giant golems were part of the story. So we're trying to come up with plausible reasons that they would be massive, not human sized.

[PiperThePaladin]

Perhaps there is a minimum requirement of material you need to house something like a soul inorganically. Like how the wall of a blast furnace or submarine need to be so thick, or the thing will explode.

You could say there's some sort of alchemy involved. Like, these golems have solid iron as their core, which holds the soul. To contain a soul, you need a three foot sphere of iron. Any less and the soul will escape. If your golem must be built around a 2,000 pound "heart," there's no way it's going to be less than 10 feet tall if you want it to be able to move.

[Grim Portent]

In order to contain the animating force of the soul the golem must be etched with a written spell of calling and binding as part of it's creation, the smallest that anyone has managed to etch it makes it require at minimum the surface area of a 10 foot humanoid form to finish it without having to use surfaces too curved to properly bear the runes. Larger golems are made as status symbols if made of expensive materials or as signs of shoddy craftsmanship if made of poor materials as it makes it easier for the crafter to etch the required script.

[Xuc Xac]

The souls control the golem but they don't power it. A soul could control a smaller body, but they don't know how to make a power source small enough to fit in a human size body.

[Anymage]

Golems aren't carved out of one massive block of stone so much as they're assembled from multiple, painstakingly enchanted pieces. Miniaturization is then limited by how small the smallest piece can get before etching or similar enchanting tasks risk breaking it.

This will make them look a bit more constructed and less like guardians carved out of a single large piece of rock. But that bit of fluff could easily wind up being a plus.

[LudicSavant]

Perhaps heroic souls require large arcane cages to contain them.

[Maelynn]

Perhaps there is a minimum requirement of material you need to house something like a soul inorganically. Like how the wall of a blast furnace or submarine need to be so thick, or the thing will explode.

You could say there's some sort of alchemy involved. Like, these golems have solid iron as their core, which holds the soul. To contain a soul, you need a three foot sphere of iron. Any less and the soul will escape. If your golem must be built around a 2,000 pound "heart," there's no way it's going to be less than 10 feet tall if you want it to be able to move.

I like this idea. And then you could perhaps create a story where inventors are slowly making progress to make the golems smaller in size, to increase efficiency and preserve materials. Comparable to real world computers, which started out huge and clunky and slowly became smaller to fit into society and see other uses.

[Kythia]

They absolutely can be human sized, technically. But the powerful stonemason's guild doesn't want to lose the income they get from creating these behemoths and so are covering up that its possible.

[VoxRationis]

Similar to PiperThePaladin's idea, perhaps inorganic material is an imperfect vessel for a human soul, and therefore can hold less soul per unit mass.

[aimlessPolymath]

Unbeknownst to the crafters, you can create golems that small- but such small golems can only contain weak people. The more powerful the soul, the stronger the housing must be.

[Knaight]

You could make them smaller, and if they had more souls available they probably would - but instead it makes more sense to use up resources proportionally, and given the relative ease of production for varying sized golem parts that tends to mean going big.

That said, I think you're overthinking this to some extent. The military already has human sized, human shaped combatants. Lots of them, generally humans. The golems are analogous to a large war vehicle, and adding in that variety and the flexibility that comes from it alone counts for a lot. There's a reason vehicles of a wide variety of sizes have shown up in basically every war that took place in the 20th and 21st century, and in naval battles for well before then.

[Tvtyrant]

This culture has a unique tradition in which warriors can continue to serve their country after death. This is an honor awarded only to a select few who distinguish themselves in battle. Their souls are recalled from the after life and placed into a construct called a golem. Although their souls are housed in this unit, they are not "alive". Emotions, memories, etc have passed on to the other side, and they are basically automatons that control the golem. They are used for guardship, or as a specialized unit in the military, and other matters related to defense.

These golems are human shape, but massive: about 10 - 15 ft, similar to a small Gundam or megazord. They are powerful and expensive to build. I need a reason for why this nation doesn't choose to build them smaller. Why can't these golems be human sized?

Golems require a system of "veins" and "organs" to function. Jars with the individuals organs and embalming fluid are interred inside the golems body. Each jar is attached to the others by alchemically treated ropes of flesh and sinew, and the original skeleton is laid within the golems body. All are baked together into the clay body.

The pots and sinews take up far more room then can fit inside a human sized golem, and efforts so far have barely reduced the space.

[noob]

The size needed for containing the soul is bigger if the soul is less attached to the world and so heroes which are often very attached to this world can fit within a golem which weights only a dozen of tons but souls of people less attached to this world are way harder to contain and likewise the soul of a lich would probably fit within a golem weighting only a few tons.

[akma]

Abundance of resources. Whichever creates them doesn't have a shortage of the materials, so they make them as big as they magically can, and the bigger they are, the stronger they are.

[Deepbluediver]

Why can't these golems be human sized?

Why does no one build pocket-sized steam-engines? It's not that it's impossible, it's just that the mechanics make it in-efficient. Assume something in the way the magic works is the same for your warrior-golems. Maybe the intricate runes required to animate them can't be carved small enough, or trying to make smaller (thinner) limbs leaves you with weaker material (surface-area-to-volume ratios, etc). I realize a lot of this basically boils down to "because magic", but is that an invalid reason? Are there other body-forms for golems that come in smaller sizes? I remember one version of the Frankenstein story explaining that the monster HAD to be abnormally large because the process was imprecise, and trying to make a regular-sized body didn't leave enough margin for error.

Alternatively, have it be a cultural restriction- there are lots of things that people COULD theoretically do, but don't because they face social ostracization or legal repercussions for doing it. This is especially true if there's a religious component, like the local priest-hood demands to see the body you are going to use before they recall a soul for you, and they will refuse to imbue anything that doesn't look suitably impressive.
Lots of military-based leaders liked big superweapons, when expending the same resources on many smaller mass-produced weapons would have been more efficient and probably more effective- maybe throw shades of that in as well.

[sktarq]

Actually on the idea of inefficiency ...

what if the smaller you build a golem the less dense the material you make them has to be (because of how it links to the motive/animating energy)...So very large golems are also possible (Huge or Colossal) but would have to be made from very dense materials...so Colossal Lead Golems may be a viable thing but not really that useful (but perhaps a couple used for construction, intimidation, or pageantry may exist (but not really be story relevant)...A few Huge Iron Golems used as the main battle tanks etc and Large Stone Golems....And perhaps medium flesh golems

sure you can have small balsa wood golems but they are fragile and why would you? They are nearly as expensive (see the whole hosting powerful soul apparatus is still just as expensive) and far less durable

[SpoonR]

The military already has human sized, human shaped combatants. Lots of them, generally humans. The golems are analogous to a large war vehicle, and adding in that variety and the flexibility that comes from it alone counts for a lot. There's a reason vehicles of a wide variety of sizes have shown up in basically every war that took place in the 20th and 21st century, and in naval battles for well before then.

Ahh, so the golems are that large so soldiers can get piggyback rides into battle, one on each shoulder.

[Knaight]

Ahh, so the golems are that large so soldiers can get piggyback rides into battle, one on each shoulder.

I could see troop transport being a dedicated golem role, sure - probably more for a spider shaped golem, or at least a human shaped golem carrying something. Especially in the context of warfare in areas heavy on rivers or mountains. I realize you were being facetious, but this isn't entirely wrong - and it's something human sized golems can't do.

That said, I was thinking more of tanks, mobile artillery, etc.

[Vogie]

This culture has a unique tradition in which warriors can continue to serve their country after death. This is an honor awarded only to a select few who distinguish themselves in battle. Their souls are recalled from the after life and placed into a construct called a golem. Although their souls are housed in this unit, they are not "alive". Emotions, memories, etc have passed on to the other side, and they are basically automatons that control the golem. They are used for guardship, or as a specialized unit in the military, and other matters related to defense.

These golems are human shape, but massive: about 10 - 15 ft, similar to a small Gundam or megazord. They are powerful and expensive to build. I need a reason for why this nation doesn't choose to build them smaller. Why can't these golems be human sized?

Those are the reasons... they're larger than people because they're larger than life already, and then that is codified by the golem creation.

Find a reason that a non-warrior would achieve this honor, outside of battle contexts.

This could include:

• Someone famous for working in tight quarters, such as smugglers & sappers
• Someone famous for being dexterous and fast, such as spies or fencers

[GreatWyrmGold]

Most of the good reasons (culture/respect, precise manufacturing requirements, military advantages, etc) have been covered, so I'm going to suggest something a bit more off-the-wall. What if the golem's torso was the coffin for the body of the warrior whose soul powered the golem? A coffin meant to contain a human needs to be a bit bigger than the human, and a golem needs to be bigger than its own torso, so there you go.

Maybe it's a cultural thing; the embalmed/mummified body of the warrior is still there, able to "experience" the victories its new body earns. Maybe it's a magical thing, with the body being a sort of immobile undead powering the automaton. Who knows? It could be a neat, if slightly macabre, detail. (And especially powerful warriors might rise from their destroyed golem-coffins to finish the battle...)

[Nifft]

Each complete humanoid golem is composed of at least five lion-golems, and lions are individually Large, so the composite five-lion humanoid would tend to be even larger.

[JNAProductions]

Most of the good reasons (culture/respect, precise manufacturing requirements, military advantages, etc) have been covered, so I'm going to suggest something a bit more off-the-wall. What if the golem's torso was the coffin for the body of the warrior whose soul powered the golem? A coffin meant to contain a human needs to be a bit bigger than the human, and a golem needs to be bigger than its own torso, so there you go.

Maybe it's a cultural thing; the embalmed/mummified body of the warrior is still there, able to "experience" the victories its new body earns. Maybe it's a magical thing, with the body being a sort of immobile undead powering the automaton. Who knows? It could be a neat, if slightly macabre, detail. (And especially powerful warriors might rise from their destroyed golem-coffins to finish the battle...)

That’s awesome.

Each complete humanoid golem is composed of at least five lion-golems, and lions are individually Large, so the composite five-lion humanoid would tend to be even larger.

And that’s hilarious.

[Paleomancer]

Plenty of really good reasons given above - I love the idea of a mobile tomb golem. Another consideration is emotional rather than practical - why wouldn’t your civilization make a giant golems? These are clearly monuments with a military purpose strapped on almost as a side thought (if I haven’t misread your idea) - real life monuments are big to emphasize the importance of a particular event or person, at least to those commissioning or creating such a work. Making a 2 foot tall soldier statute might be all a poorer person could afford, but it would be seen as parsimonious at best when commissioned by a wealthier individual, organization, or state. Humans value height in real life as well, and we may in fact be neurologically coded to attribute greater respect to taller people, creatures, objects, and features. One hunts an elephant and squashes a bug, after all. Making tall golems might be as simple as stating that is what these people do to commemorate their heroes, and to do anything less is emotionally seen as defiling their memory. It need not be rational or pragmatic at all.