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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Weird unit conversions

    Quote Originally Posted by 5a Violista View Post
    (The funny part is that the SI unit of energy is actually the Joule, not the calorie, so you still have to do unit conversions anyway since you'll likely need/have the energy in terms of Joules instead of calories in most cases)
    Except you don't, because the Joule is defined as the amount of work done by applying a force of one Newton over one meter--the Newton is, in turn, the amount of energy required to accelerate one kilogram at 1 m/s^2. So on an abstract level, we're once again talking about trivial unit conversions. I suppose you could argue that on a practical level, actually clocking the acceleration on a kilogram of water to see how much for it takes to accelerate it would be a bit messy.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Weird unit conversions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    Except you don't, because the Joule is defined as the amount of work done by applying a force of one Newton over one meter--the Newton is, in turn, the amount of energy required to accelerate one kilogram at 1 m/s^2. So on an abstract level, we're once again talking about trivial unit conversions. I suppose you could argue that on a practical level, actually clocking the acceleration on a kilogram of water to see how much for it takes to accelerate it would be a bit messy.
    We're talking about heating water, not moving it - which doesn't mean you need unit conversions, but does mean you need to know the specific heat of water as well as the relevant heat equation to handle the specific heat of water you've chosen (q=mcΔT for a constant, dq/dT=mc as a starting point for all others where c is generally a function of T).
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Weird unit conversions

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    We're talking about heating water, not moving it - which doesn't mean you need unit conversions, but does mean you need to know the specific heat of water as well as the relevant heat equation to handle the specific heat of water you've chosen (q=mcΔT for a constant, dq/dT=mc as a starting point for all others where c is generally a function of T).
    I suppose from a Energy-Meter-Second view you could argue that Heat Capacity is a unit conversion (for exactly what that average accel_distance is*, or something very easily derivable from the boltzman constant) multiplied by however many different accelerations you applied.
    [Actually creating a proper argument would require far more rigour than would be fun for loophole abuse]

    *well obviously in this the joule is the base unit, quite how you get back to describing kinetic energy I don't know (perhaps via the Lorentz transformation) but from there via statistical thermodynamics to get 'Temperature'. In any case as flanders&swann put it "heat is work and work is heat"
    Last edited by jayem; 2018-08-23 at 03:17 PM. Reason: boltzman constant, not distribution

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Weird unit conversions

    Quote Originally Posted by jayem View Post
    In any case as flanders&swann put it "heat is work and work is heat"
    "Oh, I'm hot!"
    "Hot? That's because you've been working!"

    ...Because there's not enough Flanders and Swann in the world. I won't link to it, but The Laws of Thermodynamics (monologue plus song) is well worth a search.
    Last edited by Manga Shoggoth; 2018-08-24 at 01:28 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Weird unit conversions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    Except you don't, because the Joule is defined as the amount of work done by applying a force of one Newton over one meter--the Newton is, in turn, the amount of energy required to accelerate one kilogram at 1 m/s^2. So on an abstract level, we're once again talking about trivial unit conversions. I suppose you could argue that on a practical level, actually clocking the acceleration on a kilogram of water to see how much for it takes to accelerate it would be a bit messy.
    The SI unit for heat is, in fact, the Joule, for reasons stated by other posters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat#Notation_and_units
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