Erfworld 77, page 71

[innovan]

The wussiest dwagons in the universe. They never kill anything. They just get worfed over and over again. Fried, toasted, electrocuted, reduced to atomic bits, kicked in the chops, they're just there to be destroyed in different artistic ways.

And the most brilliant warlord in the Universe? Not really. He can't even overcome a dolt in a jumpsuit in a battle for a single hex.

Might as well stick a fork in Parson. Tool's going to send him to the front line for his failures, where he'll be ordered around like a sock puppet, his only advantage, his brain, ignored.

[Lombard]

I was in the middle of an eloquent response to your question, but accidentally closed the window. So now you get the short version :)

Parson is the protagonist and the character we all should be relating to the most. We know he can't lose quite yet, so we are left to wonder what he is going to do to survive and what we would do in his situation. That's tension :)

Yeah, just please let it not be via some new rule or mechanic twist we haven't heard about yet. It's more fun to know all the rules and mechanics and speculate/be surprised what happens next. If every turn of the plot depends on something new on the rules/mechanics front, there's about as much suspense as Batman getting stung by a rare and deadly insect; you just know he'll have the antivenin on his utility belt because you're never told everything that's on it.

[Ethesis]

Reading this comic I feel about as 'bleh' as if in a real strategy game I had come up with a great plan, done everything right, the other guy does everything wrong, and he still wins due to game mechanics not working as advertised.

I've been getting that same feeling. Kind of nausea just before vomit hits kind of feeling.

At the moment I've got faith that the author will pull it out, but the implications of:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0067.html

and

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0066.html

were very clear. The story after those hasn't followed clearly. I'm trusting and waiting for consistency in the long run, accepting the short run, though the switch from "now he knows he's booped" to "betting our lives" and I'm feeling booped, but hopeful. Hopeful.

It is just taking a while.

[caranha]

I disagree. Erfworld becomes less and less interesting with every update, because there isn't tension - there is just inevitability. Ansom was going to win. Parson was summoned. Ansom continues to win.

So what the hell is the point?

Exactly my thoughts - The only thing that seems to be able to save "Team Evil" now is a Deux Ex Machina, and that prospect is terribly "meh".

[Atheist_Cleric]

Good comic, but I agree with some of you; it would be nice to see Parson's side actually get a definitive victory...I mean, they tok out all that siege, which was good, but in the long run all it'll mean is it will take Ansom a little longer to breach the city. Also, I thought it was awesome that even when fighting, Vinny still retained his trademark folded arms stance.

[Ethesis]

Exactly my thoughts - The only thing that seems to be able to save "Team Evil" now is a Deux Ex Machina, and that prospect is terribly "meh".

Though we do know that the Hamster doesn't display stats over his head like everyone else. We will probably get a meaning for that.

[Vreejack]

The ability for Ansom to move into the hex after the combat had already started would be impossible in any game that combines strategic and tactical modes of combat. However, it is possible that Ansom started moving before Jillian attacked, and so his move would be considered completed just before the combat started. In other words, Ansom moved and arrived before the combat began, but he was on the far side of the hex or something and so was not seen right away.

Strategic movement doesn't really take up time in the same sense as it does in tactical mode, instead it takes up move, so all cross-country movement is essentially instantaneous: you pick up a piece and move it to its destination. Tactical movement is clearly more realistic in its progression of time, but the two forms are completely independent and take place on their own scales. The idea that Ansom could have been moving outside the hex while the combat was taking place doesn't really make much sense.

[innovan]

Well, there is a tiny bit of character development. Jillian and Prince Retard have developed openly declared love for each other. Tool and Wanda have gotten it on.

And Parson, the main character of the story, has perhaps learned empathy for people forced to work as television sets.

I'm betting heavily on the Deux Ex Machina resolution also.

[ShiningTed]

Damn romantic happy endings! I hate those

I have a little issue with the game mechanics - if Jillian and co get to attack (since it's their turn), then the defensive side get to counter-attack, how does a Warlord's counter-attack suddenly get interrupted by Ansom?

EDIT: Ahh, ninja'd about 20 times over

[SteveMB]

Exactly my thoughts - The only thing that seems to be able to save "Team Evil" now is a Deux Ex Machina, and that prospect is terribly "meh".

A dozen pages ago, Team Ansom had walked into Parson's trap, and looked equally doomed. At that rate, there's room for at least one more reversal of fortune.

My guess is that the outcome will be something a bit more interesting than a straightforward victory for either side.

[GWvsJohn]

Give Parson a chance everyone. He is still learning the rules (just like we are, one of my fave things about the Erf). The siege has been significantly weakened, Ansom has shown all his cards and, worst case, Stanley lost half his dwagons and 3 seemingly weak warlords. I'm sure Hamster has plenty of tricks up his sleeve and there are plenty of turns before GK is booped.

And remember, a character inventing new and innovative ways to exploit a system is not Deus Ex Machina

[GWvsJohn]

Damn romantic happy endings! I hate those

I have a little issue with the game mechanics - if Jillian and co get to attack (since it's their turn), then the defensive side get to counter-attack, how does a Warlord's counter-attack suddenly get interrupted by Ansom?

As Vree stated earlier, a possibility is that Ansom entered the hex without Jill knowing when she started her attack and as an attacker is able to attack before Manpower. The "almost" attack was probably just a dramatic interpretation of the combat.

[ag30476]

I've been getting that same feeling. Kind of nausea just before vomit hits kind of feeling.

At the moment I've got faith that the author will pull it out, but the implications of:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0067.html

and

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0066.html

were very clear.

No it just seemed that way. If you read back, you can see where Ansom did take a calculated risk and where Wanda helped him by not letting Stanley interfere.

The story after those hasn't followed clearly. I'm trusting and waiting for consistency in the long run, accepting the short run, though the switch from "now he knows he's booped" to "betting our lives" and I'm feeling booped, but hopeful. Hopeful.

I disagree. The story has been consistent so far with only one glaring inconsistency...Jillian. Her 180 is still questionable because no reason was given for her going from inaction to action.

[ag30476]

Exactly my thoughts - The only thing that seems to be able to save "Team Evil" now is a Deux Ex Machina, and that prospect is terribly "meh".

There are actually quiet a few things that can turn things around again if yu think about it and none of them are Deux...except maybe in their minds.

[ag30476]

The ability for Ansom to move into the hex after the combat had already started would be impossible in any game that combines strategic and tactical modes of combat. However, it is possible that Ansom started moving before Jillian attacked, and so his move would be considered completed just before the combat started. In other words, Ansom moved and arrived before the combat began, but he was on the far side of the hex or something and so was not seen right away.

Strategic movement doesn't really take up time in the same sense as it does in tactical mode, instead it takes up move, so all cross-country movement is essentially instantaneous: you pick up a piece and move it to its destination. Tactical movement is clearly more realistic in its progression of time, but the two forms are completely independent and take place on their own scales. The idea that Ansom could have been moving outside the hex while the combat was taking place doesn't really make much sense.

Thanks! That's a good explanation.

[SteveMB]

I disagree. The story has been consistent so far with only one glaring inconsistency...Jillian. Her 180 is still questionable because no reason was given for her going from inaction to action.

Huh? The obvious explanation is that while under the spell, she was paralyzed by a situation where any action, or inaction, would hurt either Wanda or Ansom; now, after breaking the spell, she is reacting angrily at Wanda (see her comment wishing that Wanda could see, and presumably be distressed by, one of her "dolls" being broken).

[Quellian-dyrae]

I'd say that Jillian and crew winning this fight is both a viable path for the story and in no way makes a victory for Ansom seem inevitable or cast aspersions on Parson's capabilities. This has previously been referred to as the "little battle" and the fact is that Parson probably could have won it. Had Jillian remained a captive, it seems entirely feasible that everything would have gone without a hitch. Parson is at a severe disadvantage; he's working with limited understanding of the game rules and his own capabilities (veiling, for example). He's faced with a vastly superior force. He has to put up with mistakes or misinformation (Wanda's confidence in the suggestion spell). So even if all is as it seems and GK loses this match, Parson has proven that he could have not only won the little battle, but potentially croaked the coalition leader and, presumably, won the war in its entirety. Despite all the hindrances stacked upon him, he came very close, and that's after what...a day (turn) or so of learning and planning? The siege is estimated to arrive in 4-5 turns, if I recall correctly; my read is that the stage is being set for a rather epic confrontation at that point, when Parson can make use of both his gamer's tactical knowledge and a firm grasp of Erfworld mechanics.

[ag30476]

Huh? The obvious explanation is that while under the spell, she was paralyzed by a situation where any action, or inaction, would hurt either Wanda or Ansom; now, after breaking the spell, she is reacting angrily at Wanda (see her comment wishing that Wanda could see, and presumably be distressed by, one of her "dolls" being broken).

What you say makes sense. But what broke the spell? It can be speculated on a lot -- and I'm not saying the speculations do not makes sense -- but in the end it's just speculation. The lack of info on what broke the spell between 73 and 74 was intentional.

[Jagg]

OK I'm jumping on the bandwagon with PREDICTION *cue spooky music*

Spoiler

Show

Ok my prediction is this - It's not over till the phat lady sings at this point all looks bad for the Tools side of things, without a deux ex machina I think that there are a couple of options, but I going with my preferred.

Ansom and Jillian stare longingly into each others eye's, and whilst distracted Lady Phat-Sing takes the pliers and flees a hex or two with her remaining move (yes this is where this prediction falls down - it means that there needs to be a dragon with move left) - we know that Ansom and Vinnie don't have move, and that the Archons and Zamussels doesn't have much either. The lady gets the pliers back to the Tool and either himself or one of his minions - read Parson or Wanda - attune to the pliers. This gives Stanley an advantage similar to the one he currently has for the hammer. Can you say giant undead warriors? which balances the combat once agin from the loss of the current crop of dragons.

I'll avidly wait until proven one way or another

[JazzManJim]

Reading this comic I feel about as 'bleh' as if in a real strategy game I had come up with a great plan, done everything right, the other guy does everything wrong, and he still wins due to game mechanics not working as advertised.

Yeah, no kidding.

[Ink]

Well, there is a tiny bit of character development. Jillian and Prince Retard have developed openly declared love for each other.

Which means that now would be an excellent time for one of them to get croaked.

[Madea]

I am in wholehearted agreement that I'm not too keen on how lopsided it seems. The dragons turning out to be pretty pathetic? A strategic mind failing due to mechanics we don't know about? Although it works in Rob's advantage to not have posted numbers, so we can't number crunch and argue with him on the point, but it's also kind of frustrating. Not feeling very enthusiastic at the moment.

But, since I have faith in Rob's ability to tell a story, considering he's a sharp guy and if you've spent any time reading Partially Clips you can tell that, I'll just wait and see.

In the end, this battle can't go on forever; they have to end the turn sometime.

In the meanwhile, I'll just say:
HAY DEVS, I WAS SITTING IN GOBWIN KNOB AND TOTALLY GOT GANKED. NERF ALLIANCE~!! DPS TOO HIGH! I SCORED NO CRITS THE ENTIRE FIGHT! ANSOM SUCKS!! QQ!

[JazzManJim]

The ability for Ansom to move into the hex after the combat had already started would be impossible in any game that combines strategic and tactical modes of combat. However, it is possible that Ansom started moving before Jillian attacked, and so his move would be considered completed just before the combat started. In other words, Ansom moved and arrived before the combat began, but he was on the far side of the hex or something and so was not seen right away.

That would work except for two things:

1) Parson is supposed to have a God's Eye view of the battlefield thanks to the Magic Triumverate. If Ansom moved, Parson should have seen him. If Ansom moved and Parson didn't see him then the authors just screwed consistency or they're going to drop in yet another odd rules quirk. Neither one is good story.

2) If Parson saw Ansom move into the hex, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have the dragon stack merge and close on Jillian. The prize is Ansom and Parson would have to be a strategic idiot of unfathomable size to go for Jillian and not Ansom.

[SteveMB]

OK I'm jumping on the bandwagon with PREDICTION *cue spooky music*

Spoiler

Show

Ok my prediction is this - It's not over till the phat lady sings at this point all looks bad for the Tools side of things, without a deux ex machina I think that there are a couple of options, but I going with my preferred.

Ansom and Jillian stare longingly into each others eye's, and whilst distracted Lady Phat-Sing takes the pliers and flees a hex or two with her remaining move (yes this is where this prediction falls down - it means that there needs to be a dragon with move left)

None of Stanley's units can go anywhere; it's not their turn.

[JaxGaret]

A possibility I just came upon in my musings:

Manpower was moments away from carving Jillian up.

Wanda's "No, please" belayed Parson's orders to croak Jillian by a few moments.

That may have made the difference between Jillian being skewered and living.

Just a thought.

[JazzManJim]

Now that I think about it, I'm really irritated that Ansom and Vinny just appeared in the Lake Hex. According to everything we know about the Magic Triumverate, Parson and Crew should have seen them moving toward that hex. There should not have been any surprise at all.

I think we're about to see yet another Unknown Rule of the Game and I have to be honest here. I'm kind of getting tired of them. I'd like to get a decent run of strips where the rules stay the same so we can at least assimilate them a little bit before we get more new ones.

[ag30476]

That would work except for two things:

1) Parson is supposed to have a God's Eye view of the battlefield thanks to the Magic Triumverate. If Ansom moved, Parson should have seen him. If Ansom moved and Parson didn't see him then the authors just screwed consistency or they're going to drop in yet another odd rules quirk. Neither one is good story.

2) If Parson saw Ansom move into the hex, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have the dragon stack merge and close on Jillian. The prize is Ansom and Parson would have to be a strategic idiot of unfathomable size to go for Jillian and not Ansom.

Hmmm....thinking about it, even if it is against TBS rules doesn't the fight imply Parson and Stanley see Ansom en-route during the fight?

Panel 4: Oh...boop. Go. Hurry! (Parson)
...
Panel 8: Hamster! Ansom's in the hex! (Stanley)

But again I'm not the wargame expert so I dunno.

[JazzManJim]

Hmmm....thinking about it, even if it is against TBS rules doesn't the fight imply Parson and Stanley see Ansom en-route during the fight?

Panel 4: Oh...boop. Go. Hurry! (Parson)
...
Panel 8: Hamster! Ansom's in the hex! (Stanley)

But again I'm not the wargame expert so I dunno.

I suppose you could read it that way but it seems a really large stretch. Ansom had to move three hexes to get there and that would definitely have shown up on the Big Board if it works as we've been told it works.

[Kronk]

Ok, I registered just to post this, but in hindsight, I see alot of holes in this idea, but I'm posting it anyway:

Spoiler

Show

I wonder what the exact wording was on the hiring of the Archons. Charlie says on page 42 "to provide escort to 3 commanders and their entourage." Is it possible that with Jillian reunited with Ansom that the conditions of their hire have been satisfied? How would that change the next turn if the Archons go away?

Discuss?

[SteveMB]

Panel 4: Oh...boop. Go. Hurry! (Parson)

At first, I thought it was because Jillian was getting free sufficiently to get out her sword, but that's what we see from the depiction of the scene -- the situation room display doesn't show that kind of detail. The obvious alternative is that they did see Ansom's approach (probably when he and Vinny were on the brink of entering the hex, thus entering the area where everybody's attention was focused).