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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    If you look at the Big Board in some of the latest strips, Parson appears to be zooming in on the lake battle. He wouldn't have seen Ansom coming for a while in that case. Edit; Boop, that's not right. Ah well. I also read them seeing Ansom coming, though.
    Last edited by yoshi927; 2007-09-12 at 09:49 PM.

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    I have just two words for Erfworld:
    God Mode.

    -Parson
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    T However, it is possible that Ansom started moving before Jillian attacked, and so his move would be considered completed just before the combat started. In other words, Ansom moved and arrived before the combat began, but he was on the far side of the hex or something and so was not seen right away.
    Two problems with that: his bonus would add to the stack so Jillian would know he was there, and Parson would see him. Now you could claim that's why the Archons were so powerful but I feel cheated.

    Parson is going to be really mad with Wanda. Had he known this could happen he would have taken initiative. Had he started the fight there would have been no thinkagram to Ansom. Wanda cost him this battle.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Regarding the "Parson should have seen Ansom coming" comments, if (as someone speculated), STRATEGIC movement (hex to hex) is instantaneous, then Parson would only see Ansom after he entered the battle.

    Re the WoW parody: ROFLMAO

    My own comments: Well, boop me in the boop. This is why I am not really great at certain TBS/RTT (Real Time Tactics) games--my lateral thinking ability is slightly deficient. If I'd reread the whole thing thinking as a gamer rather than as a reader, I might have seen this coming. I still might have an idea how GK could get pulled out of the frying pan...but can Parson miss the fire below?

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    I keep getting stuck on Parson's lack of stats...
    Last edited by Ripsaw; 2007-09-12 at 09:55 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Methinks Parson's going to be leveling up pretty soon. Or Wanda.

    Go Team Good! As I mentioned so long ago, I feel that anything can happen in this comic; I'm not married to a Stanley victory. Can't wait for the next one.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripsaw View Post
    Regarding the "Parson should have seen Ansom coming" comments, if (as someone speculated), STRATEGIC movement (hex to hex) is instantaneous, then Parson would only see Ansom after he entered the battle.
    We know that strategic movement is not instantaneous, but does seem to be fairly quick (in terms of Erfworlder time perception), judging from the scene where Stanley was monitoring Jillian's approach.

    The simplest interpretation is that Parson's "Oh... boop. Go. Hurry!" comment was when Ansom got close enough to be noticed (with everybody's attention firmly focused on the lake battle).

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripsaw View Post
    If I'd reread the whole thing thinking as a gamer rather than as a reader, I might have seen this coming.
    No you wouldn't. Generally, once two stacks engage no outside units enter until they're done. Parson merged his stacks and attacked Jillian's stack. The only way for Ansom to pull this thing would have been for him to merge his stack with Jillian's before the engagement.

    He could have entered after the Leeroy's stack was wiped out (first engagement over), but Parson would have noticed the merging of stacks in the other side.

    This was done for dramatic purposes, but it's weird from a gaming perspective.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    Parson is going to be really mad with Wanda. Had he known this could happen he would have taken initiative. Had he started the fight there would have been no thinkagram to Ansom. Wanda cost him this battle.
    Also, the red dwagon apparently grabbed Jillian in its mouth rather than biting down or breathing, which would have been the obvious tactic against a warlord riding a funny-looking marshmallow at a high altitude. Another point against Wanda.

    As for Team Radish: They will have left a massive concentration of firepower, including the bulk of their air power... hovering over or near a lake during Team Stanley's turn (possible exception: The Archons seem to have astonishing amounts of move, so they could reposition before the end of the turn). Team Stanley have a lot of dwagons left, and (possibly) two warlords. Also, unlike Team Radish, Team Stanley's heavies have not deployed to the front lines (though we have seen Stanley himself ride out once).

    The deaths of the three warlords will stall GK for however long it takes to recall the dwagons and raise three more undead to warlord status (although here Parson might be able to convince Stanley to use live warlords). That will bring the column closer to GK, but the closer the column gets to GK the easier it is for Parson to engage it tactically. The last stretch of road leaves Ansom's army attenuated and completely exposed.

    Even with this setback, and it's a major setback, GK has options. None of them are particularly attractive, but with 25:1 odds you'll have that. One thing to note: Team Radish still doesn't know that GK has a real commander (Jillian might...) and next turn is the first turn Parson will have where he is the sole commander of GK's forces.

    Oh, and the question I asked a while back about whether Wanda had some feeling for Jillian? Yeah. Sure enough, it introduced just enough Jillian-style waffling in GK to turn this battle into a rout.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Well, most of the A-dwagons, Manpower and Leroy Jenkins are doomed, leaving Lady Phat-Sing, what few A-dwagons that can escape, and the B's.

    So the Tool is down to 3 (maybe) warlords, or possibly only 2, the B-dwagons, and the gobwins of the Knob itself. We really haven't seen them do anything, so this fight is far from over.

    And of course the Ansome-Jillian-Wanda triangle is FAR from resolved, although Ansom's stock is moving up, while Wanda's is dropping.
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    You can't make this Boop up! Great stuff. I'm on pins and needles for the next one.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Well, most of the A-dwagons, Manpower and Leroy Jenkins are doomed, leaving Lady Phat-Sing, what few A-dwagons that can escape, and the B's.
    My reflex would have been to say that they can't escape; not their turn, they can't move from hex to hex.
    But then Rob and Jamie decided to throw in this 'units can move into a battle in progress' stuff, counter to most turn-based game rules, so that blows any movement predictions. It was done for story purposes; makes no sense from a gamer perspective.

    So the Tool is down to 3 (maybe) warlords, or possibly only 2, the B-dwagons, and the gobwins of the Knob itself. We really haven't seen them do anything, so this fight is far from over.
    Not to mention all the uncroaked and Sizemore's crap golems.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    There's only two warlords dead by my count on Stanley's side... still one uncroaked one if they decided to make a mad run for destroying the rest of the siege weaponry if she lives through the next couple of frames. =)
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by EdgarVerona View Post
    There's only two warlords dead by my count on Stanley's side... still one uncroaked one if they decided to make a mad run for destroying the rest of the siege weaponry if she lives through the next couple of frames. =)
    The only way to do that, though, is if Ansom, Vinnie and Jillian retreat.

    3 archons. 4 gwiffons. 3 warlords.

    versus

    ~10 dwagons (started with < 20 and 3 were killed by the Archons, 1 killed as Manpower's Mount, one killed as Leeroy's mount, 1 killed by a gwiffon).
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    The only way to do that, though, is if Ansom, Vinnie and Jillian retreat.

    3 archons. 4 gwiffons. 3 warlords.

    versus

    ~10 dwagons (started with < 20 and 3 were killed by the Archons, 1 killed as Manpower's Mount, one killed as Leeroy's mount, 1 killed by a gwiffon).
    There were originally 19 Group A dwagons. Seven of them have been croaked on-panel (you omitted the one booted to the head by Vinny). That leaves a maximum of 12 dwagons (and Lady Phat-Singh) left.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    There were originally 19 Group A dwagons. Seven of them have been croaked on-panel (you omitted the one booted to the head by Vinny). That leaves a maximum of 12 dwagons (and Lady Phat-Singh) left.
    So 12 dwagons at low hitsies and 1 uncroaked warlord against 10 units, 3 of them being warlords level 5 or above, all at either full hitsies or negligibly injured, with one carrying a weapon that dusts most uncroaked instantly.
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I still have no idea which side I should be rooting for here. I wonder if this can end with a draw...

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    The A dwagons are croaked - and have been croaked since Jillian stumbled upon them. Thus I don't see a lot of tension here, except for the tension that's existed for a half-dozen strips now.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Is it just me, or is Vinnie just casually kicking the dwagon one of the most hilarious things I have ever seen?
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Peptuck View Post
    Is it just me, or is Vinnie just casually kicking the dwagon one of the most hilarious things I have ever seen?
    He's crossing his arms as he does it, in a pose that takes itself quite seriously.

    Reminds me of an old quote by the Dragon Knight: "You're not the only one who can fight in the air."

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by GWvsJohn View Post
    Also, did anyone else notice that before Ansom attacks, Manpower's dwagon is alive, but after Manpower gets croaked, the dwagon is croaked also?
    Notice the position of Jillian's blade in those two panels. Pre-Ansom attack, her blade is back and ready to strike, post-Ansom attack, it's buried in the dwagon's croaked head. Apparently it didn't have much left.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    A dozen pages ago, Team Ansom had walked into Parson's trap, and looked equally doomed. At that rate, there's room for at least one more reversal of fortune.
    The difference is that was clever plan, and as readers we could enjoy the wargaming aspects of exploiting the ruleset to completely pull one over on the opponent. I can follow everything up to Ansom being completely rope-a-doped because he knows that it must be a dumb plan because Stanley devised it.

    And since then, we don't know what the boop to expect. The dwagons were way the hell off in the middle of nowhere, except that they were evidently between Ansom and Jill. Jill was bound by strong magic to not attack that target, except that she did. And now, Ansom can interrupt an enemy's attack phase from three hexes away? -sigh-

    One of the great strengths of this comic is that I've long wondered what would happen next, because it's kind of cool to watch a wargame unfolding one segment at a time. But I'm not going to do that tonight. I'm sure that, in time, we'll find that these were the rules the entire time, but it's just not so much fun to learn about them in this order.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    No you wouldn't. Generally, once two stacks engage no outside units enter until they're done. Parson merged his stacks and attacked Jillian's stack. The only way for Ansom to pull this thing would have been for him to merge his stack with Jillian's before the engagement.

    He could have entered after the Leeroy's stack was wiped out (first engagement over), but Parson would have noticed the merging of stacks in the other side.

    This was done for dramatic purposes, but it's weird from a gaming perspective.
    I dont see why. I already done it in Knight of Honor where you can get reinforcement from any allied army around of you, even if it should have actually took them a long time to join you. Its not because you never played a game that work like that its odd, they play by turn but that doesnt mean the battle arent real-time combat and that nobody can move as long as two party are fighting. As a matter of fact its impossible that it work like that, otherwise Ansom numbers dont mean anything, as long as Stanley engage him in a breach, then everytime two or three of Ansom units get near of Stanley army, then everyone in Ansom army freeze until those 3 units are dead...doesnt sounds really smart.

    Seriously, why does everybody seems to go with the «Stanley must-win» line of thinking? I could see Parson joining the good guys, I could see them escaping GK with the remaining dwagons to plan a strikeback, I could see Parson starting a war of attrition but I dont see why they actually have to win? Parson did good, really good, incredibly good considering his limited knowledge of the enemy and the world mechanic. I think Erfworld is becoming better and better.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2007-09-12 at 11:36 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I registered just to ask this one question: Can someone please tell me how Ansom knew where Jillian was?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Oninotaki View Post
    I registered just to ask this one question: Can someone please tell me how Ansom knew where Jillian was?
    One assumes that it was part of the thinkagram's datastream, or maybe Ansom paid Charlie extra for the information, or they puzzled out where the cloud cover seen in the thinkagram's would have had to come from. But, yeah.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Querzis View Post
    <snip>as long as Stanley engage him in a breach, then everytime two or three of Ansom units get near of Stanley army, then everyone in Ansom army freeze until those 3 units are dead...doesnt sounds really smart.
    The only way Stanley would engage Ansom in a breach is if it was his turn - when he could move his units. Which means Ansom couldn't react anyway because it's not his turn and can't move his units.

    Or at least, that was the classical view of the game system. Now it's been tossed up in the air again.

    This "oh, wait, here's a mechanic of the game world you didn't know about" thing is getting old.

    Seriously, why does everybody seems to go with the «Stanley must-win» line of thinking? I could see Parson joining the good guys, I could see them escaping GK with the remaining dwagons to plan a strikeback, I could see Parson starting a war of attrition but I dont see why they actually have to win? Parson did good, really good, incredibly good considering his limited knowledge of the enemy and the world mechanic. I think Erfworld is becoming better and better.
    It's not so much as a 'Stanley Must Win' as a 'Ansom shouldn't win'. Stanley doesn't get what HE wants (the Arkenpliers), but Ansom's forced to withdraw, which sets the stage for further battles.

    In the past, I'd say Parson wouldn't be able to switch to Ansom's side - the spell compels him to obey Stanley's orders. But now, with Jillian, we see those 'compulsion' spells can be broken. Back up in the air with that one.

    While they can escape GK, they can't take any Schmuckers. We haven't seen anything about how units with no Schmuckers for upkeep survive.

    Grr. The important questions aren't answered, and the 'surprise mechanics' are coming in at the most inopportune times.
    Last edited by sihnfahl; 2007-09-13 at 12:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian View Post
    One assumes that it was part of the thinkagram's datastream, or maybe Ansom paid Charlie extra for the information, or they puzzled out where the cloud cover seen in the thinkagram's would have had to come from. But, yeah.
    Gotcha, so its just another one of those things that have magicly gone wrong for Parson lol. Whats that list up to now 4?5?

    The more things just magicly go wrong the less interested I become, and I was super loving this comic up until the dragons got found. Now I am really leary(sp?) of how it is going to turn out.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Querzis View Post
    Its not because you never played a game that work like that its odd, they play by turn but that doesnt mean the battle arent real-time combat and that nobody can move as long as two party are fighting.
    I've played that, but in those games combat proceeds in well defined rounds and you have a well defined concept of time.

    But if Erfworld is like that then I don't understand Ansom's problem in crossing the dwagon fort.

    If he can enter one hex with a battle going on then he just needed to send a few units to fight the dwagons and cross the hex with the rest. Worst, if can units in and out then he could enter with everyone and simply disengag most of his stack and let a few guys to die while the warlords crossed.

    EDIT: about Ansom knowing where Jillian is. Maybe the thinkagram includes coordinates. Not a big deal.
    Last edited by teratorn; 2007-09-13 at 12:11 AM.
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley_ View Post
    Why am I the only one to think the following:

    Wanda did, in fact, anticipate that a small emotional tweak would be enough to make Jillian send the thinkagram to Ansom. She knew that ansom would ride to the rescue. Wanda managed to use Jillian to get ansom, unprotected and out in the open, into that hex.

    While Jilian thinks she is doing something to hurt stanley, she actually helped more than if she just ignored the stack.

    [...]

    Wanda is shrewder than I thought.
    Good that somebody still believes in Wanda, or, rather, in the authors' mercy on her... Seeing Jillian and Ansom united in tender smiles had me running around for five minutes, screaming disgustedly.
    Whatever happened to "Let's get out of here together!"? (Which was before Wanda cast the "very hard way" spell.) A 'Jillian and Wanda' pairing would have been so much more romantic than 'Jillian and Ansom'! Now it's probably all going to end in happiness, with a marriage at the end, with Jillian in a sparkly 'princess' dress. *grumbles*

    BTW: Loved Vinnie kicking the dwagon, though. And the punchline.
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    But if Erfworld is like that then I don't understand Ansom's problem in crossing the dwagon fort.

    If he can enter one hex with a battle going on then he just needed to send a few units to fight the dwagons and cross the hex with the rest. Worst, if can units in and out then he could enter with everyone and simply disengag most of his stack and let a few guys to die while the warlords crossed.
    Now that you've mentioned it, I think that's exactly what "the flight" entailed.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    If he can enter one hex with a battle going on then he just needed to send a few units to fight the dwagons and cross the hex with the rest. Worst, if can units in and out then he could enter with everyone and simply disengag most of his stack and let a few guys to die while the warlords crossed.
    That just doesnt seems to be Ansom style really. Let some units die so that other can cross? Ansom got «noblesse oblige» written all over him, he cant do that. Beside, even if he send some people first, dwagons without warlords attack randomly so if he let the dwagons do they could attack the soldiers he send first or they could attack him and his most important units (and if the dwagons does have warlords then they will obviously kill him first and ignore the units he left behind.)
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Yoink ftw.

    You know, it really makes sense if you think about it. She did contact him via thinkagram or whatever before the fighting started, who's to say Ansom didn't get the coordinates as part of the message? The timing's right.

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