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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I didn't expect that at all. I like this comic, it keeps moving Parson in worse and worse positions.

    I can't make any more predictions, my probability of being wrong just keeps increasing.
    Custom avatar thanks to Abardam.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    It is if that character bounces a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish.
    Voltaire FTW
    Power Corrupts. Absolute power is actually kinda cool...*Evil Laugh*

    "Beatings, beatings, beatings, beatings...and more beatings" -- Jillian Michaels, The Biggest Loser

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by derfy View Post
    In retrospect, shoulda seen it coming.
    DID see it coming. Remember? I specifically said that a message like that to Ansom was sure to bring him running.

    Okay, so Ansom and Jillian are having a happy moment, while Vinnie is picking dragon body parts and things don't like they could be worse for team Tool.

    And it'll be a week before we see any movement on that.

    Bored now.

    It seems obvious that it's time to write off the contents of that hex.

    Interesting ... Wanda is still wanting to save Jillian's life. That speaks to some definite feelings on her part.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    I disagree. Erfworld becomes less and less interesting with every update, because there isn't tension - there is just inevitability. Ansom was going to win. Parson was summoned. Ansom continues to win.

    So what the hell is the point?
    Word.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I think people are forgetting that Parson's plan worked perfectly, putting Ansom in a position where he had to sacrifice his elves, himself or his siege. Parson's only mistake was trusting Wanda. But, at that point, Wanda had shown herself to be the most capable, if not the most powerful, ally he had. He played the situation perfectly, Wanda booped it up.
    'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I have to post for the first time to say -- I'm with you, Girl Wonder. I don't want Jillian or Ansom or Vinnie to get croaked. I like them all. They're so complicated.

    That said, I like Parson (and Sizemore and Misty), too. I like Wanda, but partly because she's so good at being bad. And partly because I think she's not exactly what she seems.

    I like disliking Stanley.



    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Wonder View Post
    Wanda defanged and *gasp* a little vulnerable? Maybe if she'd been nicer to the rest of the world they'd be a little more sympathetic when she said 'Please.' I hope she learns from this lesson.

    Vinny kicking bottoms?

    Parson standing up to Wanda?

    Stanley siding with Parson?

    Ansom riding to the rescue in the nick of time?

    And best of all, the look of pure love Jillian and Ansom give each other when they meet again?

    All I can say is...

    YAY! :) :) :)

    This comic made me SO happy :) I'll have warm and snuggly dreams tonight about this (however fleeting) happy moment for the forces of goodness, cuteness, and plush ;)

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    What. The. Hell.

    parson had a TINY bit of hope that /some/ of his dwagons could survive the battle, and the author pops ansom and vinny over to save her!!!


    CHANGE THE NAME OF THE COMIC, THIS IS NOT BATTLE FOR GOBWIN KNOB, ITS BATTLE AGAINST GOBWIN KNOB. BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS THEY ARE NOT GOING TO WIN.

    only way for victory is a king sized deus ex with a side dish of hacks
    Last edited by galdon; 2007-09-13 at 09:21 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Ok, I didn't go through all the comments to see if this point has been made: Stanley's turn will start w/ Ansom and Jillian in the same hex. Jillian will be healed, and Ansom won't.

    Will Ansom reject her as a traiter then? Or will Jillian have to bolt quickly to prevent Ansom (I keep wanting to type "Ansome") from finding this out. She's got move left after this battle, but he doesn't.

    The sensible thing, of course, is staying in the group, knowing the remaining dwagons are leaderless (after dusting Phatty), and let the column handle undirected attackes while preventing your high value targets from being swamped. But this wrinkle makes me wonder if Jillian will break off, creating another target for the B-squad dwagons next turn.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Darn it. She survived. Well, there's still hope she'll get croaked in the next strip or two.
    New Terminator movie = Awesome!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamebird View Post
    Darn it. She survived. Well, there's still hope she'll get croaked in the next strip or two.
    ansom and vinny will keep her fully protected.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by fehler View Post
    Ok, I didn't go through all the comments to see if this point has been made: Stanley's turn will start w/ Ansom and Jillian in the same hex. Jillian will be healed, and Ansom won't.
    Er, no. The reason she healed at dawn before is that she was a prisoner, and prisoners follow the schedule of the side that has them in custody.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Bullboop! She healed at dawn because it was the realization that she was on Stanley's "side". It broke her emotionally.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Hmm losing interest in the comic.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by GWvsJohn View Post
    I think people are forgetting that Parson's plan worked perfectly, putting Ansom in a position where he had to sacrifice his elves, himself or his siege. Parson's only mistake was trusting Wanda. But, at that point, Wanda had shown herself to be the most capable, if not the most powerful, ally he had. He played the situation perfectly, Wanda booped it up.
    Uh, no. Parson was not relying on Wanda's spell at all - it's unclear he even knew about it when he formulated his plan. He was relying on luck that they wouldn't find his dwagons over the lake. They both failed Stanley, unless you consider losing all the Class A dwagons & a handful of Class B dwagons fair exchange for most of Ansom's siege.
    Last edited by Daedalus73; 2007-09-13 at 09:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by fehler View Post
    Bullboop! She healed at dawn because it was the realization that she was on Stanley's "side". It broke her emotionally.
    I'm going by Rob's response when someone listed it as a possible blooper:

    Quote Originally Posted by pclips View Post
    Ah, that one's not a blooper. Jillian is captured at that point and shares "turns" with her captors' side. Eats prison meals that pop on Gobwin Knob's expense, etc.
    We know that she shifted back to an Ansom-unit schedule after being released (unless you think that Webinar would have not noticed, or seen anything suspicious about, her having rations pop at dawn). That's consistent with it being a result of being held captive (she was no longer a prisoner, so she shifted back to her own side's schedule), but not consistent with it being a result of having been converted to Stanley's side (she was still under Wanda's spell).

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus73 View Post
    Uh, no. Parson was not relying on Wanda's spell at all - it's unclear he even knew about it when he formulated his plan.
    He definitely did know that Wanda had some sort of control; she explained that (except for the parts that were just too "complex" to go into) during the planning session for the aborted ambush scheme. Parson later references the issue in his Klog:

    Dwagons ready to strike, but we probably lost our chance and gave up the prisoner.

    She better be a good mole so we can win the big battle, then.
    It seems that he is doomed to disappointment on that score.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-13 at 10:18 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Krellen View Post
    I disagree. Erfworld becomes less and less interesting with every update, because there isn't tension - there is just inevitability. Ansom was going to win. Parson was summoned. Ansom continues to win.

    So what the hell is the point?
    I agree, with one minor modification - your last sentence should've read: 'Ansom looks even more likely to win.' Shame that the summoning spell probably didn't come with a receipt...


    Quote Originally Posted by Karellen View Post
    You know, I just realized why I don't like the current scenario much. I always kind of disliked the notion that Parson was starting an operation using only dragons, because that's emblematic of a variety of unsophisticated brute-force methods and frankly, not that interesting. Also, now it looks like the use he thought for them was near suicidal - basically, he put his only trump card on stake in this fight, in a kind of all or nothing kind of bid.

    That's not bad in itself. Only... let's suppose that we don't get a Deus ex Machina and that Parson loses all of the A dragons. Can he still win the campaign? The genre conventions would have us think yes. Only... if he actually can win without his trump card, the trump card so superior that he didn't even bother using anything else on his first operation, then do you know what that means? It means that the strategic situation wasn't anywhere near desperate enough to actually warrant an operation this desperate.

    Now consider this: Why did Parson bother with the trap in the first place? It had certain success as a diversion, perhaps, but clearly since breaking out of it was this unproblematic for Ansom, it brought Parson barely any strategic advantage whatsoever. As it stands, he'd probably be better off if he actually had used the B dragons to defend the wounded stacks. It's not that his plans have failed, they've backfired. He's worse off than when he started, in part because he did things that were more clever than actually useful.

    If he doesn't lose his dragons, at this stage it pretty much has to happen in a cheesy and lame way. If he loses his dragons and then still goes on to win, I'll be thinking all the time how by any logic it should have been pretty easy if he hadn't screwed up this badly at the beginning. It's going to leave a sour taste to my mouth, one way or another. Pretty much the only way Parson could possibly even the odds at this stage would be to croak Ansom and/or get the Arkenpliers, scoring a Plot Victory, but fact is, no matter how, I'll probably still think that he's a boop-up.
    I disagreee with what Karellen writes in the first paragraph, but completely agree with everything thereafter.

    Parson using two of his only advantages (the lookamancer setup and the dwagons) in concert with an exploitation of the game mechanics to reduce the odds against Gobwin Knob seemed pretty interesting to me. I was also fine with the risky but rewarding scenario the raid on the siege represented, because at 25/1 against it's difficult to even the odds simply by playing it safe.

    I started to lose interest when Parson's plan ended up hinging on the strength of Wanda's hold on Jillian, as it reduced his credibility as the 'perfect warlord', but as that development added a certain amount of tension I ran with it. Now that the dwagons and warlords are on their way out I've more or less completely lost interest. I'll be very impressed if the authors manage to rekindle that interest, for all the reasons that Karellen mentions.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaffledKing View Post
    I agree, with one minor modification - your last sentence should've read: 'Ansom looks even more likely to win.' Shame that the summoning spell probably didn't come with a receipt...
    That's one of the things in the full package that costs an extra 150k shmuckers.

    Parson using two of his only advantages (the lookamancer setup and the dwagons) in concert with an exploitation of the game mechanics to reduce the odds against Gobwin Knob seemed pretty interesting to me. I was also fine with the risky but rewarding scenario the raid on the siege represented, because at 25/1 against it's difficult to even the odds simply by playing it safe.

    I started to lose interest when Parson's plan ended up hinging on the strength of Wanda's hold on Jillian, as it reduced his credibility as the 'perfect warlord', but as that development added a certain amount of tension I ran with it. Now that the dwagons and warlords are on their way out I've more or less completely lost interest. I'll be very impressed if the authors manage to rekindle that interest, for all the reasons that Karellen mentions.
    My best guess for the next "oh, boop" plot twist is that Ansom, Vinny, and Jillian end up stuck over the lake, waiting for two dozen dwagons to come for them at dawn. (They probably don't know about Stanley's intel, but even ordinary scouting by the dwagons would find them easily enough.)

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaffledKing View Post
    I agree, with one minor modification - your last sentence should've read: 'Ansom looks even more likely to win.' Shame that the summoning spell probably didn't come with a receipt...
    Stanley voided that receipt by booping the summoning ...

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I see a lot of assumptions being bandied about in this thread...

    Like the assumption that Wanda's spell on Jillian has been broken...

    *wry grin* When I look at plots nowadays I look at them in a rather Whedonesque fashion.

    A possibility that I haven't seen anyone else suggest that I can foresee following the last panel where Jillian and Ansom are almost close enough to kiss...

    A bloodied dagger to the midsection during a kiss and snatching the pliers away from Ansom. His guard will be totally down.

    Ansom would be wounded and left alive with a maelstrom of emotions that will hinder his strategic and tactical planning.

    Will this be what happens? Maybe not, but just wanted to point out that nothing that I've read people write about what has to happen next is established until the next comic is actually posted.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by galdon View Post
    What. The. Hell.

    parson had a TINY bit of hope that /some/ of his dwagons could survive the battle, and the author pops ansom and vinny over to save her!!!


    CHANGE THE NAME OF THE COMIC, THIS IS NOT BATTLE FOR GOBWIN KNOB, ITS BATTLE AGAINST GOBWIN KNOB. BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS THEY ARE NOT GOING TO WIN.

    only way for victory is a king sized deus ex with a side dish of hacks
    Not really... Look at it like chess... The A-dwagons are queens, while the B-dwagons are rooks/bishops. Parson might have lost his most powerful weapon, but he's not unarmed. My question is whether or not he can pull his B-dwagons back to Gobwin Knob without a Warlord.

    Right now he's down two warlords, Manpower and Leroy. He still has Lady Phat Singh out in the field (who might be in a world of hurt in a page or two), plus Ensign Toast and Archduke Ferdinand back at GK. He also has a strong defensive position, a good number of expendable troops, and a real-time/no fog-of-war battle table. The B-dwagons may turn out to be the key pieces in future battles.

    Anyone who played Starcraft or saw 300 knows how much damage a few determined troops at a key choke point can cause.

    So far, the Coalition warlords have been the only ones to show any "powers," but that doesn't mean that the uncroaked Warlords can't do something. Parson is still learning the "special tricks" of his pieces, and is learning fast. However many moves Team Ansom has left, it's probably not enough to get back and croak the remaining B-dwagons.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I loved Manpower in the 4th panel. Very piraty.

    What's weird to me is how did Jillian's sword shrink so much in panel 4? It looked dagger sized. Also, what is keeping Jillian up in the air after the dwagon was croaked in the 7th and 8th panels?
    fool'd you wid' Logic!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    My question is whether or not he can pull his B-dwagons back to Gobwin Knob without a Warlord.
    We know that Stanley could send dwagons on a mission (capture Jillian) without a warlord. Recalling them should be trivial. (If Ansom, Vinny, and Jillian lose the gwiffons and Archons and thereby end up stuck over the lake, that gives the B-dwagons an obvious target next turn....)

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    I dont see the point anymore really.. ansom is going to keep beating parson on every turn, everything is going his way, literally the only thing that can save gobwin knob is a dues ex.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    We know that Stanley could send dwagons on a mission (capture Jillian) without a warlord. Recalling them should be trivial. (If Ansom, Vinny, and Jillian lose the gwiffons and Archons and thereby end up stuck over the lake, that gives the B-dwagons an obvious target next turn....)
    no, they will move off the lake hex and have all the gumps and elfs who suddenly have enough move just waltz over and everyone huddles in a hex
    Last edited by galdon; 2007-09-13 at 10:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Can't say I enjoyed this one, and it bodes ill for the future.

    Ansom "to the rescue" during Jillian's engagement is a major break in the TBS backdrop of the story. Whatever the explanation the authors concoct for it, it has messed with one of the basic ground rules of the whole setting. I dislike it very much.

    And we want to see Parson win or lose, but not be constantly screwed by things he (and we) didn't know about.

    This latest arc has dropped my evaluation of the storyline quite a few notches. Of course it was very high to begin with, so we'll see where it goes from here...

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing HalfOrc View Post
    Not really... Look at it like chess... The A-dwagons are queens, while the B-dwagons are rooks/bishops. Parson might have lost his most powerful weapon, but he's not unarmed. My question is whether or not he can pull his B-dwagons back to Gobwin Knob without a Warlord.

    Right now he's down two warlords, Manpower and Leroy. He still has Lady Phat Singh out in the field (who might be in a world of hurt in a page or two), plus Ensign Toast and Archduke Ferdinand back at GK. He also has a strong defensive position, a good number of expendable troops, and a real-time/no fog-of-war battle table. The B-dwagons may turn out to be the key pieces in future battles.

    Anyone who played Starcraft or saw 300 knows how much damage a few determined troops at a key choke point can cause.

    So far, the Coalition warlords have been the only ones to show any "powers," but that doesn't mean that the uncroaked Warlords can't do something. Parson is still learning the "special tricks" of his pieces, and is learning fast. However many moves Team Ansom has left, it's probably not enough to get back and croak the remaining B-dwagons.
    when you are at a 25 to 1 disadvantage cheep expendable troops are absolutelly worthless. he's lost around half his only powerful unit, and his third warlord has no hope of surviving.

    he's down to 50%(ish) dwagons and 2 out of 5 generals

    ansom lost 40% siege, not nearly enough to force them to have to take the tunnels, and none of his generals are dead.

    overall, the battle is getting very pathetic. ansom's forces got into a pinch or two but came out unhindered, and now parson's running out of ammo but is still in exactly the same situation as he was when he started.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    We know that Stanley could send dwagons on a mission (capture Jillian) without a warlord. Recalling them should be trivial. (If Ansom, Vinny, and Jillian lose the gwiffons and Archons and thereby end up stuck over the lake, that gives the B-dwagons an obvious target next turn....)
    I don't know about that one... Might be throwing good money (er... smuckers) after bad...

    The siege engines are Ansom's most dangerous weapons against GK. The dwagons control the airspace, and the gobwins, skeletons, twolls, etc... control the tunnels. Battering down the walls would put the fight back on Ansom's terms. The force of numbers alone would crush Stanley once Ansom breeches the walls.

    Parson is trying to buy himself some breathing room to set up raiding parties to whittle down Ansom's forces, and to do that he needs the walls up and safe. As long as he has enough dwagons to keep Jillian, Ansom, Vinny and the Archons from bombarding the city from above, Parson owns a meat-grinder, and Ansom owns meat. And Ansom isn't willing to expend troops so cheaply.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    What I would like is if Jillian, having no living peep or dwagon to hang on to, falls into the lake and drowns.

    It ain't deux ex machina, it's gravity!
    Last edited by lavidor10; 2007-09-13 at 10:34 AM.
    fool'd you wid' Logic!

    Thanks to Dr. Bath for Detritus pic

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by lavidor10 View Post
    Also, what is keeping Jillian up in the air after the dwagon was croaked in the 7th and 8th panels?
    The peep she is lying on in the *first* panel?
    Except I don't see it in the penultimate panel ... but then, Ansom is already there and can keep her up, somehow ... even if it means introducing YAHUR (yet another hitherto-unknown rule)

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    Default Re: Erfworld 77, page 71

    Quote Originally Posted by Karellen View Post
    You know, I just realized why I don't like the current scenario much. I always kind of disliked the notion that Parson was starting an operation using only dragons, because that's emblematic of a variety of unsophisticated brute-force methods and frankly, not that interesting. Also, now it looks like the use he thought for them was near suicidal - basically, he put his only trump card on stake in this fight, in a kind of all or nothing kind of bid.

    That's not bad in itself. Only... let's suppose that we don't get a Deus ex Machina and that Parson loses all of the A dragons. Can he still win the campaign? The genre conventions would have us think yes. Only... if he actually can win without his trump card, the trump card so superior that he didn't even bother using anything else on his first operation, then do you know what that means? It means that the strategic situation wasn't anywhere near desperate enough to actually warrant an operation this desperate.

    Now consider this: Why did Parson bother with the trap in the first place? It had certain success as a diversion, perhaps, but clearly since breaking out of it was this unproblematic for Ansom, it brought Parson barely any strategic advantage whatsoever. As it stands, he'd probably be better off if he actually had used the B dragons to defend the wounded stacks. It's not that his plans have failed, they've backfired. He's worse off than when he started, in part because he did things that were more clever than actually useful.

    If he doesn't lose his dragons, at this stage it pretty much has to happen in a cheesy and lame way. If he loses his dragons and then still goes on to win, I'll be thinking all the time how by any logic it should have been pretty easy if he hadn't screwed up this badly at the beginning. It's going to leave a sour taste to my mouth, one way or another. Pretty much the only way Parson could possibly even the odds at this stage would be to croak Ansom and/or get the Arkenpliers, scoring a Plot Victory, but fact is, no matter how, I'll probably still think that he's a boop-up.

    Very well said. This post sums up my growing discontent w/ the story.

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