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  1. - Top - End - #691
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
    That sounds like WAY more work than its worth. Frnakly there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the comic when it comes to its art. Seriously the comic shouldn't really need more than 3 people; 1 writer, 1 character artist and 1 background artist. And with 3K per updates Rob could afford to pay them full time likely with 2 updates a week (number of updates might depend on how well they coordinate with eachother)
    Well, he already claimed that

    Quote Originally Posted by State of the Erf - Part 2
    Our art team learned the hard way that trying to do two updates a week indefinitely is unsustainable. We managed it for over a year, but it just about destroyed us.
    which frankly can only (seeing how many other comics that are made by less people and update more often don't seem to have such an issue) mean either some things are very messed up in the pipeline or some people are really bad at working. Or both. In either case, the move to 3d won't help...
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    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

  2. - Top - End - #692
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Divayth Fyr View Post
    Well, he already claimed that



    which frankly can only (seeing how many other comics that are made by less people and update more often don't seem to have such an issue) mean either some things are very messed up in the pipeline or some people are really bad at working. Or both. In either case, the move to 3d won't help...
    Theoretically speaking, in the long run 3D could be a really great time-saver since once you have models with skeletons and skins you can easily change their poses and angles for anything you need, whereas with 2D you need to draw everything new from scratch every time you want a new pose or angle. Also copy-pasta'ing mooks and whatnot.

    However that only works if you're not planning in constantly adding new characters that each demand a new model neither making cameos, so in Erfworld's case yeah, chances are that it won't help.

    And yeah there's no solid excuse for needing so many people just for updating twice a week. Like Nerf Now updates 6 days of the week with only a few misses now and then and the single author still makes patreon stuff and plays lots of video games.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-05-17 at 08:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  3. - Top - End - #693
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    And yeah there's no solid excuse for needing so many people just for updating twice a week. Like Nerf Now updates 6 days of the week with only a few misses now and then and the single author still makes patreon stuff and plays lots of video games.
    The Schlock Mercenary guy has been updating every single day for the past two decades, no exceptions. Even when comics wasn't his full-time job, back in the beginning.

    But, frankly, I think we're barking up the wrong tree, here. Sure, it'd be nice if we got regular updates, but regular updates mean nothing if the thing being updated isn't any good.

  4. - Top - End - #694
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Yeah, I just don't buy the whole "we need more people" thing. You look at comics like Goblins or Erfworld where they struggle to put out a page every few weeks and then compare them to something like Tower of God where the artist is pumping out 30+ pages of solid art a week. At some point you have to say they're either simply not putting in enough hours, or they need to streamline their process. Or just admit that you don't feel like updating that often. That's fine too.

  5. - Top - End - #695
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Tower of God does have the advantage that the writer and the artist are the same person.

    I feel like webcomics that divide those tasks up are much more prone to falling apart like this. There are some success stories, but they're usually ones that have extensive professional experience and teams that are very tightly bound together (eg. the Foglios and Girl Genius - although even then, I think they're both writer / illustrators rather than splitting the roles?)

  6. - Top - End - #696
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    The Schlock Mercenary guy has been updating every single day for the past two decades, no exceptions. Even when comics wasn't his full-time job, back in the beginning.

    But, frankly, I think we're barking up the wrong tree, here. Sure, it'd be nice if we got regular updates, but regular updates mean nothing if the thing being updated isn't any good.
    Well it would mean experience for the author/artist if nothing else. If you stick to something seriously chances are that you'll get good at it eventually. Whereas if you keep finding excuses to procrastinate...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  7. - Top - End - #697
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Well it would mean experience for the author/artist if nothing else. If you stick to something seriously chances are that you'll get good at it eventually. Whereas if you keep finding excuses to procrastinate...
    Experience isn't the issue, here- Erfworld used to be good, and now it isn't. If it's a matter of experience, then we want less experience, here. But because that's ridiculous, we can safely conclude that experience isn't the issue. The issue is that Rob Balder had a few good ideas, but he's already used all of them up, and he really should've moved on to a new project before now, but he didn't because Erfworld got very popular and, hey, he's gotta eat somehow.

  8. - Top - End - #698
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    I think the real problem is that he's bored with it and doesn't really have a story he wants to tell anymore, but he needs to keep the comic going for money. That's why he's been treading water for the last 2 books and the plot hasn't advanced at all.

  9. - Top - End - #699
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Well it would mean experience for the author/artist if nothing else. If you stick to something seriously chances are that you'll get good at it eventually. Whereas if you keep finding excuses to procrastinate...
    Dominic Deegan would like a word with you. Not a pleasant word mind, that comic went off the deep, weird, and deeply weird ends at the same time. It also maintained an update schedule that rivaled Schlock Mercenary (I remember 5 updates a week, always on time, but I stopped looking at it a good 12 years ago).

    That said, that is the only comic I can think of that did not get better as the author and artist put more work in.
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I think the real problem is that he's bored with it and doesn't really have a story he wants to tell anymore, but he needs to keep the comic going for money. That's why he's been treading water for the last 2 books and the plot hasn't advanced at all.
    I thik this nailed it.
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  11. - Top - End - #701
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    I thik this nailed it.
    Hmmm, makes sense. As already pointed out the first book is pretty self-contained, with a beginning, middle and end, in which Gobwinknob is well positioned to just go on an unstoppable conquering spree. There's some sequel hooks, but still a pretty satisfying experience.

    So satisfying that a bunch of people got hooked enough they'll pay Rob money for anything more Erfworld, even just the promise of "maybe I'll update something in half a year". So Rob kept pushing for the easy money, but indeed just ran out of ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  12. - Top - End - #702
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    That said, that is the only comic I can think of that did not get better as the author and artist put more work in.
    I actually kinda liked the ending of DD, and wasn't that story always considered bad anyway? All I remember is the mockery, not people wishing it would get good again...

    In any case, it's not hard to find stories that have gone downhill, even if the art improves (I think the best art for Erfworld is book 2 though). Any story that lasts long enough eventually has people saying that the new stuff isn't as good as the old. Game of Thrones is the hot topic example right now, and no one can deny that, from a visual perspective, season 8 looks damn good in comparison to season 1. All the criticism is aimed squarely on the writers.

    Goblins, Questionable Content, Something Positive, are all webcomic series that have seen better days. Bleach and Naruto are manga examples of super popular series that people got bored with. Hell, I stopped following Schlock's Mercenaries years ago. My favourite stuff was the early bits, especially those first two or three Schlocktoberfest stories, and the art was so bad that he actually recommended people start at a more recent point for a long time.

    If we are talking about improving art, and constant updates but with a worse story though. I'd have to point out Sinfest in particular. That one didn't just get worse, it actively alienated the fanbase in the pursuit of promoting a political agenda. It's the most personally painful example I can think of.

    I have to say though, OOTS keeps going from strength to strength. It's an example of the opposite. I actually dropped the series the first time I tried reading it because I just didn't like book 1, but I gave it another try a year or two later on and everything since then has been just fantastic. The characters constantly grow, there is foreshadowing and payoff. Unexpected returns. Reading all these bad stories really brings home that Rich is a master of the storytelling craft.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-05-21 at 11:41 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #703
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Experience isn't the issue, here- Erfworld used to be good, and now it isn't.
    To be fair, there was serious disruption with the artists for a while. And even though they have a great art team now, it seems reasonable that that disrupted things a bit.

    Also, I wonder if posting on GitP made things easier for them? No need to worry about hosting or running a forum or any of the other annoying little things that come with running a webcomic.

  14. - Top - End - #704
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    Thumbs down Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by cervidal View Post
    Do a little background checking on the guy - he's never once followed through to completion on anything he's started if it doesn't have a hard deadline imposed by others and result in a near-immediate payoff.

    Giving him money up front is just bad business.
    I knew Rob. Of all the comments here, this is the one that truly hits the nail on it's head.

    Erfworld's biggest problem is Rob. Erfworld's second biggest problem is Rob think's he's perfect and blames all his problems on everyone else (usually with screaming & cursing i.e. verbal abuse), so the biggest problem never gets addressed.

  15. - Top - End - #705
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by forgotlastlogin View Post
    Erfworld's second biggest problem is Rob think's he's perfect and blames all his problems on everyone else (usually with screaming & cursing i.e. verbal abuse), so the biggest problem never gets addressed.
    Jeeze, I'd never heard that one before! To my knowledge, we're just dealing with a perpetual failure-to-accomplish. This is a vastly different light to see him in.

  16. - Top - End - #706
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by forgotlastlogin View Post
    I knew Rob. Of all the comments here, this is the one that truly hits the nail on it's head.

    Erfworld's biggest problem is Rob. Erfworld's second biggest problem is Rob think's he's perfect and blames all his problems on everyone else (usually with screaming & cursing i.e. verbal abuse), so the biggest problem never gets addressed.
    Knew Rob in what capacity. As far as I know. Rob never did anything really fradulent? Just negligent mostly.
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    As far as I know. Rob never did anything really fradulent? Just negligent mostly.
    I don't know the guy, but with fraud? I'm stunned Kickstarter hasn't had massive complaints against the guy. He's not even really trying to fulfill the vast majority of what his suckers gave him.

    I'd never heard he was a screamer, but the verbal abuse doesn't surprise me. I had an e-mail exchange with him that went downhill fast on his side.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    I dunno. My impression was that the kickstarter thing was more incompetence than malice. He promised far more than he should have because he didn't realize how difficult it would be and how much it would cost - an unfortunately common mistake on kickstarter.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by cervidal View Post
    I don't know the guy, but with fraud? I'm stunned Kickstarter hasn't had massive complaints against the guy. He's not even really trying to fulfill the vast majority of what his suckers gave him.
    Considering how many kickstarter projects get delayed for years or the dude that started it just vanishes with the money, that's about average of what you can expect nowadays sadly.

    Kickstarter is pretty hit or miss. Some really great things have come out of it, but several others may've been as good as throwing money away, and I'm not surprised for people getting dulled over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  20. - Top - End - #710
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Considering how many kickstarter projects get delayed for years or the dude that started it just vanishes with the money, that's about average of what you can expect nowadays sadly.

    Kickstarter is pretty hit or miss. Some really great things have come out of it, but several others may've been as good as throwing money away, and I'm not surprised for people getting dulled over there.
    None of which excuses the fraudsters.

    I don't know Rob, so I can't say if any of what's been posted about him is true. I do know that he has a tendency to very publicly blame other people for his problems though. He's done it to basically everyone who has ever worked with him at some point.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    None of which excuses the fraudsters.

    I don't know Rob, so I can't say if any of what's been posted about him is true. I do know that he has a tendency to very publicly blame other people for his problems though. He's done it to basically everyone who has ever worked with him at some point.
    Well in both cases it's hard to tell incompetence from malice. For kickstarter it's not always clear if people simply understimated just how much money and time they would need or if they were planning for fraud from the start.

    Blaming others not a very good sign, may be self-delusional, but at that point refusing to admit one's faults is not that different from malice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    mad Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    I literally just created an account to complain.

    A few moments ago I got a bloody e-mail from Rob, asking for money. They're running a 24h Kickstarter and it looks like it won't get funded in time. I realize they're strapped for money, but that's just low, even for them.

    I mean, why make a Kickstarter with just 24h deadline? Are they trying to milk what's left of their audience before it all crashes and burns?

    The e-mail looks like spam, and doesn't have an 'unsubscribe' button. It also assumes I follow all the team updates and know about the Kickstarter. Gaah, I wish I had a paid subscription so I could cancel it in protest.

    Sorry for the rant, I was a long-time Erfworld fan, and I still love the world and the story. I just wish they got back to working on the story, instead of weird CGI projects, cryptocurrency scams or beg-a-thons on Kickstarter.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob;
    As a manager, I'm only a notch or two above Stanley the Tool.
    Hm. Let's compare:
    Stanley rose through the ranks, became warlord, won many battles, became chief warlord, kept winning wars, and finally was designated as heir. When in battle, he decides quickly and has his men and dwagons under control. From what we've seen Stanley is not very intelligent and has no sense for strategy, but he sticks to what he knows, namely applying a lot of concentrated force to an enemy /dwagons, hammer and dance fight), avoiding battle when he can't win (he's described as a rat and a coward), and has sometimes pretty "shrewd" ideas and even bouts of genius (see the lookamancer table). But knowing your limits and using what works is reasonable. I'd say that makes Stanley the Plaid an excellent project manager and good COO. He just sucks as CEO (overlord).

    tl;dr Rob isn't a better manager than Stanley. The Tool delivers, Rob doesn't.
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Rob's about as good a manager as, let's say... Parson.

    Yeah, he pulled a real nice and impressive trick on his first outing, but after that he's been floundering, bumbling, and third derogatory gerund that derives from an animal, accomplishing very little of actual consequence.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by JackSnipe View Post
    I literally just created an account to complain.

    A few moments ago I got a bloody e-mail from Rob, asking for money. They're running a 24h Kickstarter and it looks like it won't get funded in time. I realize they're strapped for money, but that's just low, even for them.

    I mean, why make a Kickstarter with just 24h deadline? Are they trying to milk what's left of their audience before it all crashes and burns?
    Seems like pretty much yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Welf View Post
    Hm. Let's compare:
    Stanley rose through the ranks, became warlord, won many battles, became chief warlord, kept winning wars, and finally was designated as heir. When in battle, he decides quickly and has his men and dwagons under control. From what we've seen Stanley is not very intelligent and has no sense for strategy, but he sticks to what he knows, namely applying a lot of concentrated force to an enemy /dwagons, hammer and dance fight), avoiding battle when he can't win (he's described as a rat and a coward), and has sometimes pretty "shrewd" ideas and even bouts of genius (see the lookamancer table). But knowing your limits and using what works is reasonable. I'd say that makes Stanley the Plaid an excellent project manager and good COO. He just sucks as CEO (overlord).

    tl;dr Rob isn't a better manager than Stanley. The Tool delivers, Rob doesn't.
    Don't forget that Stanley gathers competent advisors to cover his weaknesses-and then makes sure said advisors stick with him come heaven or hell.

    Whereas most people that Rob gets in his team end up leaving pretty soon.

    Also Stanley knowing when to perform a tactical retreat instead of making an hopeless stand and dying would make him considerably smarter than your average Erfworld ruler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by JackSnipe View Post
    I literally just created an account to complain.

    A few moments ago I got a bloody e-mail from Rob, asking for money. They're running a 24h Kickstarter and it looks like it won't get funded in time. I realize they're strapped for money, but that's just low, even for them.
    Seems to have worked though. I remember looking at this and there were... two hours I think, and I am pretty sure it was around 2,000$ to go. I didn't think it would make it, however, a new look shows it successfully raised 5,700$, well over the goal.

    It's a question that interests me, how many times can you keep going back to the well of your supporters? When does it finally break? Anyone got any examples of authors that went too far in asking for money?

    On another note, if you really wanna protest, just become a tool. I give you 90% odds that if you sign up for a month, there will not be a single update, and you can enjoy all the free content and then cancel. If you really wanna stick it too him, you can also copy all the sexy stuff onto a photobucket album and post a link.

    I disavow such actions, of course!
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-05-24 at 10:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Welf View Post
    I'd say that makes Stanley the Plaid an excellent project manager and good COO. He just sucks as CEO (overlord).

    tl;dr Rob isn't a better manager than Stanley. The Tool delivers, Rob doesn't.
    I'd say Rob is an incompetent Warlord, that threw every member of his staff under the bus, but rolled really good on Luckamancy and ended up with both great PR and Ruler status.

    I disagree. Everything you said is true, but Rob would make an excellent CEO. His abilities to gather money are legendary. And isn't that what CEO is really all about? I.e. getting more money for your fake programming firm?


    The only good thing about this Kickstarter, is that Rob *promised* if successful there won't be any more 24hrs Kickstarters. Luckily, for the two legged sheep that follow Rob around, all that promises is that next cash grab Kickstarter won't have exactly 24hrs. Maybe 25 or 36, or maybe even 720 hours with a bonus story for his biggest sheep. A story in about 10-10000 years from now.
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]
    On another note, if you really wanna protest, just become a tool. I give you 90% odds that if you sign up for a month, there will not be a single update, and you can enjoy all the free content and then cancel. If you really wanna stick it too him, you can also copy all the sexy stuff onto a photobucket album and post a link.
    Stuff posted on the art blog before you joined is locked out and has to be bought with the site currency. You get 200 of them at the highest pledge level but there's no telling how much unlocking posts costs. At a guess, it's probably pretty steep; the lowest level that gives you access gives you ten and, with the site's track record, I'd be surprised if that got you much more than the last few posts.

  29. - Top - End - #719
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    tomaO2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Canada
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Huh. You know, I remember that little detail now.

    Probably a good business decision, overall, given the massive number of smuckers that are in circulation, and how few things there are to buy. I have no idea why Rob needs to restrict that to tool users only though. Many people have smuckers to burn. Heck, I got 1400+ myself. Would be bad for him if something popular that you could buy with smuckers went up for sale.

    On another note, I just noticed that pledges have gone below 3k. I think it's for the first time since he mentioned the cancer. I think the high was around $3,400? Still way higher than it was but I guess there are some signs of people having enough.

    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-05-25 at 04:30 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #720
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    A story in about 10-10000 years from now.
    That's before or after the new Game of Thrones book releases?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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