Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

[Rockphed]

Fan interpretation of old transilvito

https://imgur.com/gallery/XNm0JDW

Is it bad that I think that such is much more interesting than anything that has happened in the comic since the battle of portal park?

[JeenLeen]

I was reading some comments on the latest update at the Erfworld forums, and saw some talk about the bats going to eat the bodies TV is required to destroy or turn over to CC. Or, well, were required to, I guess, since the contract is gone. But Don, Bunny, and Roger, I guess.

Which comic noted that the bats were doing that? I'm assuming I just missed it or didn't realize a note about the bats moving meant they were moving to do that. I was hoping we might still get a Decrypted Don, Bunny, and Roger (as much as I figured at least not all of them would end up Decrypted... and not as much point narratively now that Vinny is gone.)

[Jasdoif]

Which comic noted that the bats were doing that?

There was no direct reference I could find (and I missed the hints myself, until it was mentioned here). Caesar mentioning the bodies and what the bats were doing kind of obliquely hinted at it, as did a mention of Bunny's body being consumed.

[Aquillion]

New page. Prologue to the next book.

Spoiler

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And, of course, it's a totally new side and some totally new characters discussing a totally new plot thread, because we don't have enough plot threads going on yet.

Also, when is this happening? Shouldn't they have suddenly gotten an awakened tower like everyone else? I'd have expected that to override other concerns.

[Narkis]

New page. Prologue to the next book.

Spoiler

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And, of course, it's a totally new side and some totally new characters discussing a totally new plot thread, because we don't have enough plot threads going on yet.

Also, when is this happening? Shouldn't they have suddenly gotten an awakened tower like everyone else? I'd have expected that to override other concerns.

Spoiler

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I imagine this is yet another prequel story that will reveal something about the setting, like the one about the warlord who tamed the unlucky seagall, or the dirtamancer whose side got screwed by Charlie. What happened to that guy anyway? I was sure he'd make an appearance.

And man, I thought I was done but I really can't stay away.

[Otomodachi]

Spoiler

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I imagine this is yet another prequel story that will reveal something about the setting, like the one about the warlord who tamed the unlucky seagall, or the dirtamancer whose side got screwed by Charlie. What happened to that guy anyway? I was sure he'd make an appearance.

And man, I thought I was done but I really can't stay away.

Meh, we left "good" like a couple years ago but it was entertainingly bad for a good while, now I feel like we're stagnating in just regular-bad.

[hajo]

New page. Prologue to the next book.
when is this happening?

The only hint is that Charlescomm exists, and is advertising.
So, it can't be happening too far in the past.

The newly awakened towers would pretty sure come up in conversation,
but didn't, so I guess we are just a few turns in the past now...

[keybounce]

I can't help but think of the Tom Leher song about Silent E ...

And, a completely generic side that makes "for sale" signs?

...

[DigoDragon]

It's odd cause "Generica" was a company brand a friend and I came up with many years ago for a fun modern RP campaign setting we played with.

At least their logo isn't ours. Just a bit odd about the parallel name scheme.


So many words. Have to reread that after my coffee. XD

[xroads]

Meh, we left "good" like a couple years ago but it was entertainingly bad for a good while, now I feel like we're stagnating in just regular-bad.

Yeah it's feeling like the story is jumping the shark now.

I was holding out hope that things would get better. But it doesn't look like that is going to be the case. At least for the immediate future.

I think I'm going to take this comic off my watch list for the time being.

[-D-]

Yeah it's feeling like the story is jumping the shark now.

I was holding out hope that things would get better. But it doesn't look like that is going to be the case. At least for the immediate future.

I think I'm going to take this comic off my watch list for the time being.

Nah, the story jumped the shark ages ago. Now it's taking the shark by the tail, dragging it onto the beach and humping it.

Question is does Rob suffer from Kuboitis - a rare disorder, where once the "artist" becomes bored, he starts adding more and more characters, to the point where endless line of new characters are introduced and/or killed.

[Hawk7915]

New page. Prologue to the next book.

Spoiler

Show

And, of course, it's a totally new side and some totally new characters discussing a totally new plot thread, because we don't have enough plot threads going on yet.

Also, when is this happening? Shouldn't they have suddenly gotten an awakened tower like everyone else? I'd have expected that to override other concerns.

This may be it for me an Erfworld. I can't even keep all the plot threads straight at this point:

- Transylvito: We've got new Warlady Regent Skye in a standoff with Charlsecomm Forces, but those forces are a bit of a mess because Doller Bill is brainfried by the Malalaka (Maggie Doll). Jack and Maggie are stuck here, presumably frozen with grief if not outright dusted because Jillian is dead. Caesar is dead. It is unknown if their Tower is facing trouble due to "stealing" the power to make Skye Queen. Holy cow that was a lot of words for ONE PLOT THREAD.

- GK Capital - is this still Jetstone? Anyways, Parson is trying to help Sizemore rig the portal using the Wonky Wrench (how did they get the wrench??? I guess DeIsaac gave them that but stole the 'pliers?) but Sizemore lacked the juice to do it. Last we say, Stanley was upset; it is again unclear if the decrypted are dusted or just paralyzed and broken with Jillian's death.

- Magic Kingdom Part 1: The Dirtamancers just managed to kill Wanda. It's unclear to me if Ivan and Claud are also deceased, either due to the Dirtamancy attack or Wanda's death.

- Magic Kingdom Part 2: The Isaac doll is working with the now-Awakened Arkenpliers to possibly decrypt DeIsaac...I think? I'm so lost on this plot thread tbh.

- ICFYS: Jillian is being Jillian, arguing with Huehue her new Tower, who is also talking to recently FAQ-turned unit Marie. All of Jillian's troops and all her cities are basically out of commission. It seemed like Marie was just paralyzed with grief over Wanda's death, and not dusted, but that is unclear - also unclear is whether or not her belonging to a new side and not GK had any influence on her surviving.

- Charlescomm: Shirley is furious about Huehue cheating, and decided to just let Charlie garden. I honestly couldn't tell from our last check-in if Charlie gardening was giving him new devious ideas on how to break the game, or if he was totally in la-la-land. Charlie seemed to think things were irrevocably broken after getting suckered on the TV contract.

- And now Generica, which seems to be taking place some amount of time in the past and is involving signmancers so maybe it'll tie back into Janis somehow?

And that's just plot threads that I think we've looked into in the last, say, fifty updates. We also have several lingering plot threads...

- FAQ: Has been taken by Ansom and Vinnie, with Jillian's son what's-his-name holed up outside as one of the lone surviving FAQ units around. We have no idea what, if anything, happened to Vinnie once everything went down in TV with the contract and the death of Don King an dthen Caesar.

- Jetstone: The kingdom, not the city - I think. Trammenis had an audience with Ansom and let him go, but we haven't checked in since despite them being a big deal a billion updates ago.

- That one scummy Carnie, Jojo(?), was doing other shenanigans on Charlie's behalf on the MK. We have no clue what he's up to once coaching the dirtamancers to block off a bunch of portals.

It's all too much, and it's been treading water for like a year. I think I'll take a long break and maybe come back and just start from the beginning of book 3 when time has healed all wounds.

[halfeye]

This may be it for me an Erfworld. I can't even keep all the plot threads straight at this point:

- Transylvito: We've got new Warlady Regent Skye in a standoff with Charlsecomm Forces, but those forces are a bit of a mess because Doller Bill is brainfried by the Malalaka (Maggie Doll). Jack and Maggie are stuck here, presumably frozen with grief if not outright dusted because Jillian Wanda is dead. Caesar is dead. It is unknown if their Tower is facing trouble due to "stealing" the power to make Skye Queen. Holy cow that was a lot of words for ONE PLOT THREAD.

You made that typo twice, even though you do know what's going on.

[Aquillion]

I should mention that I don't even mind a side-story - they're often better than the main plot, specifically because they haven't gotten kudzu-level complicated yet. Taken on its own, this page was interesting. But I have an unfortunate suspicion that this will soon tie into the main plot and become yet another part of that giant tangle.

(Honestly, I almost feel the author would be better off writing a bunch of loosely-connected Erfworld short stories focused on worldbuilding, rather than one giant plot about Parson. It feels like that's what he really wants to do anyway.)

[Whispri]

I just don't see the point to this stuff with the new side, why does it even matter? What can it bring to the table that an update focusing on an established side wouldn't? I've given Wanda up for lost at this point, if he'd rather show nonsense like this than address that whole situation after quietly killing her off screen, well... Eh, let's face it, she'd just jump off the nearest cliff if she was raised. Suicidal girls who know they can die don't tend to last long. And who could stop her? Isaac's almost certainly the only one who's aware of her deathwish.

The only hint is that Charlescomm exists, and is advertising.
So, it can't be happening too far in the past.

The newly awakened towers would pretty sure come up in conversation,
but didn't, so I guess we are just a few turns in the past now...

Judging by some things said here, Charlescomm's existed for thousands upon thousands of turns, he bonded with the pliers and was driven from Efbaum before Wanda was born after all (and she was almost as old as Isaac, who was somewhere around 21, 500 turns old). So theoretically speaking, this could be happening before Gobwin Knob was even founded. It's probably far more recent than that, but still.

I'm actually okay with her being chosen over Vinny for the same reason Parson wanted someone on site at the battle in Book 2 to be Cheif Warlord. You need the bonus where the action is after all. Also, even in the best of interpetations on the time scale, The tower doesn't get a ton of time to choose. He might have interpeted the line of succession as a frontacracy, we may never know.

Not saying it was a smart choice, mind you. I'm reserving judgement on that until I can have my proper 20/20 Hindsight glasses +3 on.

But that's the thing, you want the ruler out of the hot zone, not within stabbing reach of enemy units, the capital is overrun. Better still, if you make Vinnie ruler he could have made someone in the capital, Cherri say, Chief Warlord and given the side a bonus in the fight against Charlie's dolls.

[Hawk7915]

You made that typo twice, even though you do know what's going on.

Ha. Freudian slip maybe? . Clearly I have NO idea what's actually going on though.

[slayerx]

(Honestly, I almost feel the author would be better off writing a bunch of loosely-connected Erfworld short stories focused on worldbuilding, rather than one giant plot about Parson. It feels like that's what he really wants to do anyway.)

I agree with that. Frankly i've actually found the prequel's and the short stories to be more entertaining than the main plot line. I feel like the chief problem with the main plot is the fact that there is FAR too many sides and perspectives that the author wants to cover. We are already jumping between Gk, FAQ, the MK, TV, and Charlescomm, but he adds the extra wrinkle of dedicating whole updates just to seeing the perspective of individual characters. Each movement can actually take several updates to tell us what happened. Add in the slow update scheduled and we quickly get to the point where we can end up waiting MONTHS just to get back to one of the characters. It actually becomes easy to forget where certain characters and plots left off the last time we saw them. It is all fairly well written and a lot of it is interesting, but it takes FAR too long to tell the story he wants to tell. The side stories just have a great deal more focus to them; they limit their perspectives and keep the story relatively straight forward. Its ultimately a lot more concise

[deuterio12]

Yeah, the sidestories were pretty good stuff.

But they were clearly marked as sidestories, while this supposed to be an epilogue. So it can't be something in the past, it has to be happening roughly in the same timeframe.

So yay, two new sides to water down the narrative even more...

[DataNinja]

But they were clearly marked as sidestories, while this supposed to be an epilogue. So it can't be something in the past, it has to be happening roughly in the same timeframe.

Actually, this is clearly marked as "Book 5 - Prologue 1". Which does make more sense than introducing something entirely unknown and unconnected in the last page or two.

[deuterio12]

Ah, thanks for the correction.

Still not a side story so my bet it's that it's happening in the present.

[-D-]

Honestly, I almost feel the author would be better off writing a bunch of loosely-connected Erfworld short stories focused on worldbuilding, rather than one giant plot about Parson. It feels like that's what he really wants to do anyway.

To be honest, I am not sure if he would be good at that either. You still need characters we can relate to. I remember being bored by Forecastle.

[xroads]

But that's the thing, you want the ruler out of the hot zone, not within stabbing reach of enemy units, the capital is overrun. Better still, if you make Vinnie ruler he could have made someone in the capital, Cherri say, Chief Warlord and given the side a bonus in the fight against Charlie's dolls.

True. But on the other hand, Vinnie is basically by himself except for a few dozen(?) bats. He may not even have the support of Ansom, since I seem to recall Vinnie being sent by Ceasar to take out another FAQ city. So he wouldn't be a great choice either.

...I feel like the chief problem with the main plot is the fact that there is FAR too many sides and perspectives that the author wants to cover. We are already jumping between Gk, FAQ, the MK, TV, and Charlescomm, but he adds the extra wrinkle of dedicating whole updates just to seeing the perspective of individual characters. Each movement can actually take several updates to tell us what happened. Add in the slow update scheduled and we quickly get to the point where we can end up waiting MONTHS just to get back to one of the characters. It actually becomes easy to forget where certain characters and plots left off the last time we saw them. It is all fairly well written and a lot of it is interesting, but it takes FAR too long to tell the story he wants to tell...

I definitely agree with this. One of the biggest flaws of the series right now is how many plot lines Rob is juggling. The whole things I mentioned above about Vinnie happened what, over a year ago? Yet it's been only about a day in the story.

Not an uncommon problem with webcomics. But usually there is a feeling of progress. Not so much with Erfworld right now.

I also really don't care for all of this contract business. Which is yet another reason I'm not happy with the prologue. It's focus on signamancy foreshadows more contract magic.

I really wish Rob would just fast forward the comic about 60 turns and then start us in media res. Don't worry about filling in all the gaps about what happened. Just say a bunch of things happened off stage and then push forward with a story. Preferably one that concentrates more on battle and less on contracts.

[Aquillion]

But that's the thing, you want the ruler out of the hot zone, not within stabbing reach of enemy units, the capital is overrun. Better still, if you make Vinnie ruler he could have made someone in the capital, Cherri say, Chief Warlord and given the side a bonus in the fight against Charlie's dolls.

They wouldn't have time for that. Vinnie has no idea whatsoever what's going on, and they have no fast way to communicate with him. They can't use hats - the battle is taking place right now!

Also, it's not like Huehue had very much time to choose (he was literally holding the side together with a cheat.) And he's aware Skye is Fated - he might have wanted to go along with that, or was even trying to exploit it - Fate will keep her safe, which protects his side if he makes her Overlord.

[bc56]

I really wish Rob would just fast forward the comic about 60 turns and then start us in media res. Don't worry about filling in all the gaps about what happened. Just say a bunch of things happened off stage and then push forward with a story. Preferably one that concentrates more on battle and less on contracts.

Hear, hear.
The comic, which is ostensibly about wargaming, has moved a very long way from that focus, to more of a political intrigue style.
I personally miss the big battles and desperate stands that were commonplace in the first two books. I feel like Parson has been shunted to the background, especially for this transylvito arc, and since he's the protagonist (to the point where his name is an anagram of protagonist), this is not a good thing.
I want to see a war between GK and Charlescomm, not more contracts and intrigue.
I want to see the two arguably greatest leaders in the story, Parson and Charlie, go head to head.
I want to see how strong the Jed-eye knights are, since they've never seen an engagement since they were recruited.
I want to see Stanley hit something with his hammer.

And that brings us to the prologue for Book 5.
It is true that they talk about signamancy a lot in it, but the way I read it, it's not foreshadowing more contract stuff, it's actually foreshadowing an end to that. The Überclock guy, I don't remember his name, says he can help Generica reign their reliance on signamancy in, which I read as giving them their own signamancy, rather than them being built on the signamancy of others.

[halfeye]

... push forward with a story. Preferably one that concentrates more on battle and less on contracts.

Contracts are, in the end, essentially battles.

I agree that it would be nice if the story was simplified quite a lot.

[deuterio12]

Contracts are, in the end, essentially battles.

Eeerr, no. A contract is quite the opposite, what you do when you don't want to just battle over something.

[Morgaln]

Hear, hear.
The comic, which is ostensibly about wargaming, has moved a very long way from that focus, to more of a political intrigue style.
I personally miss the big battles and desperate stands that were commonplace in the first two books. I feel like Parson has been shunted to the background, especially for this transylvito arc, and since he's the protagonist (to the point where his name is an anagram of protagonist), this is not a good thing.
I want to see a war between GK and Charlescomm, not more contracts and intrigue.
I want to see the two arguably greatest leaders in the story, Parson and Charlie, go head to head.
I want to see how strong the Jed-eye knights are, since they've never seen an engagement since they were recruited.
I want to see Stanley hit something with his hammer.

And that brings us to the prologue for Book 5.
It is true that they talk about signamancy a lot in it, but the way I read it, it's not foreshadowing more contract stuff, it's actually foreshadowing an end to that. The Überclock guy, I don't remember his name, says he can help Generica reign their reliance on signamancy in, which I read as giving them their own signamancy, rather than them being built on the signamancy of others.

The thing is, it's not even good political intrigue. Usually, intrigue involves plots and counterplots that are set in motion and then have the players try to set push their own plots while preventing the opposing plots from coming to fruition. Similar to how two chess players will try to get their own gambits to work while keeping the opponent's gambit from succeeding. It can be very exciting and suspenseful to watch.
In Erfworld, however, whenever someone has a plot, before they can even start setting their plan in motion, some outside force suddenly barges in and changes the battlefield so completely that any previous plans are nullified. It's the equivalent of throwing a basketball on the chess board before the first player can move even a single pawn. And by the time the players have picked up the pieces from the floor, the next ball is already sailing in.

[Jasdoif]

The thing is, it's not even good political intrigue. Usually, intrigue involves plots and counterplots that are set in motion and then have the players try to set push their own plots while preventing the opposing plots from coming to fruition. Similar to how two chess players will try to get their own gambits to work while keeping the opponent's gambit from succeeding. It can be very exciting and suspenseful to watch.
In Erfworld, however, whenever someone has a plot, before they can even start setting their plan in motion, some outside force suddenly barges in and changes the battlefield so completely that any previous plans are nullified. It's the equivalent of throwing a basketball on the chess board before the first player can move even a single pawn. And by the time the players have picked up the pieces from the floor, the next ball is already sailing in.

I think it's become more like the loser flipping over the table, chessboard and all, after a checkmate; and everyone agreeing that constitutes a tie. Several matches later, it seems obvious the game isn't going to end until someone decides to accept a loss. It's hard to get excited about looking for a quitter to emerge....

[Narkis]

Spoiler: new update

Show

And that's that I guess. It was building up to a kind of interesting conflict, a classic tale of the entrenched traditionalist versus the innovative outsider. I was wondering what shenanigans would happen in his stay there, how he was going to convince them, and what new things we could possibly learn about a magic discipline.

But nope, tower outta nowhere. Conflict over. Pack it up everyone.

[Razade]

The death of Vinny killed any real desire to keep going with this. You had someone you could feel for and then you threw him into a portal to die for what? I'd say we'll see down the road but I don't think we will.