Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

[Mando Knight]

Yes, he was messing with gobwins, to stop them from spawning around GK, or that is Parson's theory anyway.

No idea how he did that, but if he could stop gobwins from spawning, he could probably also stop warlords from spawning too. Not sure why he would, but you can't rule anything out with Charlie.

Charlie bought the Gobwins' allegiance, which is probably related to Gobwin Knob no longer spotting any in the field (i.e. Charlie is paying them to hide, and allegiance may affect spawn rates and locations).

[Aquillion]

Yes, he was messing with gobwins, to stop them from spawning around GK, or that is Parson's theory anyway.

No idea how he did that, but if he could stop gobwins from spawning, he could probably also stop warlords from spawning too. Not sure why he would, but you can't rule anything out with Charlie.

I'm more concerned with why he did that. Did it actually accomplish anything against a side that has Decrypted? I feel like natural allies were just one particular unit type, and it doesn't seem like the option to spend money on Gobwins was valuable enough to GK to be worth Charlie's time and effort to keep them from doing it.

I mean... they could just find some other allies to spend money on. Which, in fact, they did.

[guttering flame]

I'm more concerned with why he did that. Did it actually accomplish anything against a side that has Decrypted? I feel like natural allies were just one particular unit type, and it doesn't seem like the option to spend money on Gobwins was valuable enough to GK to be worth Charlie's time and effort to keep them from doing it.

I mean... they could just find some other allies to spend money on. Which, in fact, they did.

They're not just potential allies. They're the dominant native population of Gobwin Knob City's environs. Charlie could use them as an effective guerilla force again Gobwin Knob while they were still in their old capital. They were good with mines as well so they could prevent access to the mines and bankrupt the side.

[deuterio12]

They're not just potential allies. They're the dominant native population of Gobwin Knob City's environs. Charlie could use them as an effective guerilla force again Gobwin Knob while they were still in their old capital. They were good with mines as well so they could prevent access to the mines and bankrupt the side.

But like since book 2 that GK changed their capital to a completely different place.

In retrospective I'm with Aquillion, trying to keep gobwins away from GK didn't really pay off at all for Charlie.

And unlike all the other Charlie plans that failed one after the other (zend in the archonz with riflez! They all croaked? Then zend moar archonz with riflez!), GK didn't really need to do anything special to counter Charlie with that, Stanley was just like "fine, we'll just recruit new natural allies. With blackjack and hookers!"

[guttering flame]

But like since book 2 that GK changed their capital to a completely different place.

In retrospective I'm with Aquillion, trying to keep gobwins away from GK didn't really pay off at all for Charlie.

That's the problem with contingency plans. After a while they turn useless if you never actually use them. If Charlie sent them to assassinate Stanley while he was still in Gobwin Knob he'd be dead croaked along with Parson and Wanda just like the previous Gobwin Knob ruler.

[tomaO2]

Stanly hiring elves was completely out of expectations. Stanley has specific preferences, and they don't include most of the good type tribes. As an example, Stanley could probably find some marbits to tame without much trouble but doesn't, so he remains without any digger type units.

Given that we haven't seen the gobwin or hobs since they started working for Charlie, we don't really know what good they are too him. However, it's possible Charlie has raised a massive tribal army and is planning on doing a full out invasion of GK at some point.

Charlie has hundreds of millions of smuckers after all. It's very possible that he's decided to forgo niceties and has been using the peace treaty to get the time he needs to grow his forces. For someone like him, with only 1 city, and a ton of money, tribes are the best way to go.

We'll find out when the peace treaty expires. At the current comic rate, it'll only be 20 or more years from now.

[Anteros]

There seems to be restrictions on having different types of tribes working together. Also, the Archons apparently don't like it when Charlie brings other people into their unhealthy dependent relationship.

[Rockphed]

There seems to be restrictions on having different types of tribes working together. Also, the Archons apparently don't like it when Charlie brings other people into their unhealthy dependent relationship.

As far as I can tell, natural allies don't actually count as members of a side, so Charlie can have all the gobwins he wants without affecting his deal with the archons. That said, I don't think natural allies have warlords.

On the other hand, we know that elves and marbits won't work with sides that have gobwins or hobgobwins. Presumably the reverse is also true. Have we heard of any types of allies except those 4? I suppose there are fifteen million types of elves, but is there any talking natural ally that is neither elf nor marbit nor gobwin?

[JavaScribe]

I suppose there are fifteen million types of elves, but is there any talking natural ally that is neither elf nor marbit nor gobwin?

Western giants at least. We haven't actually seen any, but there's references to witches.

[slayerx]

There seems to be restrictions on having different types of tribes working together. Also, the Archons apparently don't like it when Charlie brings other people into their unhealthy dependent relationship.

I think the only units Archons don't like having on their side are casters and warlords. Charlie likely does mostly just keep total control of his side and better maintain his secrets, but the archons likely appreciate it since caster and warlords are commanders who would technically outrank them and could give them orders. The Archons likely prefer Charlie's ranking system which seems to be more based on merit rather than unit type. This would likely not include natural allies

[Anteros]

I think the only units Archons don't like having on their side are casters and warlords. Charlie likely does mostly just keep total control of his side and better maintain his secrets, but the archons likely appreciate it since caster and warlords are commanders who would technically outrank them and could give them orders. The Archons likely prefer Charlie's ranking system which seems to be more based on merit rather than unit type. This would likely not include natural allies

There's a comic somewhere that refers to how the archon's feel about Charlie breaking his deal with them to never have non-archon units. That part of the comic is awful, and I'm not slogging through it to find it though.

[hajo]

Western giants .. We haven't actually seen any

We have seen Jillian's Western Giants, attacking GK.

Other natural allies: Daemons, Witches.

[Lizard Lord]

We have seen Jillian's Western Giants, attacking GK.

Other natural allies: Daemons, Witches.

He was referring to not seeing any witches.

[JavaScribe]

Finally updated.

[tomaO2]

New details on this border scouting. Turns out that it does use up move. My best guess is that scouts/warlords can use natural magic to know what is in the next hex. For instance, if the hex has a river go through it, then the scout will know, even if he can't see the river. Cost is one move for the first hex border, but no cost for checking the other 5.

I've said this before, but it's been a long, long, time since I've enjoyed the story this much. Been having fun for all three of the last updates. I'm looking forward to the challenges ahead, and wondering if Fumo can survive, instead of feeling bored with the inevitability of things. The surprises of the main story don't feel all that surprising, and even the few good ones, like Maggie's doll mind wiping the dollmancer, ends up being anticlimactic.

You know, when I first started reading Erfworld, I wasn't sure if it was something I wanted to read, but then Parson came in and I was hooked by the concept of a gamer exploiting the rules to win. That was 10 years ago though.

At this point, I've changed my mind. Stories about actual Erfworlders with SIMPLE problems is what I want to read. These backer stories are some of the best stuff on the website. It's the one good thing that came out of that original kickstarter. Erfworld would be much worse off if they hadn't been written.

Honestly, I don't give a damn if we ever go back to the main story again. It's gone off the deep end, and the side stories that started are just too intertwined with it to catch my attention. This backer story, on the other hand, feels like a fresh start.

[deuterio12]

Bonus points for the update not having any fancy art. Or any art at all. See Rich, you don't need to splurge so many resources making 3D effects or hiring an army of artists, you can create a good story with just text when you you put your mind to it.

[halfeye]

Bonus points for the update not having any fancy art. Or any art at all. See Rich, you don't need to splurge so many resources making 3D effects or hiring an army of artists, you can create a good story with just text when you you put your mind to it.

He's not fast though. This is the first update this year, others do text updates a lot faster (e.s g https://www.parahumans.net/2017/10/21/glow-worm-0-1/ and https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...3/25/prologue/ (the later is on hiatus until 2019.1.14, but is usually m-w-f) ).

[deuterio12]

He's not fast though. This is the first update this year, others do text updates a lot faster (e.s g https://www.parahumans.net/2017/10/21/glow-worm-0-1/ and https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpre...3/25/prologue/ (the later is on hiatus until 2019.1.14, but is usually m-w-f) ).

The way I see it, since Rob's the one getting people to pay him thousands of dollars per update (or not), he's the one actually fast enough, it's the others that are too fast.

[Otomodachi]

The way I see it, since Rich's the one getting people to pay him thousands of dollars per update (or not), he's the one actually fast enough, it's the others that are too fast.

His name is Rob. Rich is the guy for THIS site.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm another who likes the side stories far more than the main 'plot'. The game-mechanics-as-physics aspect of Erfworld has always been one of the interesting draws, and we learn more of its rules this way.

[Aquillion]

I think the reason is that human-scale stories are more interesting. Beyond a certain point it feels like the human-scale stories of Parson, Gobwin Knob, and its people got lost under a huge pile of exploits and additional characters.

[deuterio12]

I think the reason is that human-scale stories are more interesting. Beyond a certain point it feels like the human-scale stories of Parson, Gobwin Knob, and its people got lost under a huge pile of exploits and additional characters.

Good point, it indeed became harder and harder to relate to all those mancers with all their fancy mancer senses that started taking more and more screentime, whereas Fumo's "Got food for today, how will I get food for tomorrow?" is just easier to connect to.

Otomodachi: Ups, fixed.

[Rockphed]

Good point, it indeed became harder and harder to relate to all those mancers with all their fancy mancer senses that started taking more and more screentime, whereas Fumo's "Got food for today, how will I get food for tomorrow?" is just easier to connect to.

Otomodachi: Ups, fixed.

Of the mancers, I have always found Jack and Sizemore to be the most interesting as viewpoint characters. The rest of them are either bland or just confusing. Warlords, on the other hand, are pretty good viewpoint characters. The occasional non-commander unit viewpoint is also interesting.

[deuterio12]

Of the mancers, I have always found Jack and Sizemore to be the most interesting as viewpoint characters. The rest of them are either bland or just confusing. Warlords, on the other hand, are pretty good viewpoint characters. The occasional non-commander unit viewpoint is also interesting.

For Jack that's probably because he relies on basic senses-vision, hearing, taste. Also he's basically a artist that whereas other fantasy illusionists usually either just copy-paste stuff (mirror image) or show you what you (not) want to see (charms, phantasmal killer), Jack seemingly must craft all his illusions from scratch. He can't just make an illusion of a tree, he must understand what makes others see a tree as a tree and then make sure to cover those details. It's stuff that can actually be applied in stupidworld, not just mumbo-jumbo, and that makes Jack really stand out.

Sizemore's probably my favorite mancer in the story, but that's probably because he's, well, down to earth and humble. He may as well be the only unit in Erfworld that truly wants a peaceful life and isn't plotting half the time on how to kill somebody else ( with even Jannis and the hippiemancers have shown to have some pretty murderous urges). And like Jack he manages to explain his stuff using just basic senses. He digs, mines, builds stuff from bullets to golems to cities, if Jack's an artist, Sizemore's an engineer.

[Anteros]

The real reason they're more relatable is probably because their personalities were established before things went off the rails.

[JavaScribe]

New page.

And for some reason, my attempt to post or even preview was blocked by a message saying that I need a minimum of 10 characters? Was it always like that?

[deuterio12]

Yes, always been a minimum character limit.

Also new page.

Spoiler

Show

Well that explains why the punk elves were being so "generous", although doesn't explain why they didn't just pretend to let him join them.

Also Fumo's at least able to recognize a scout working for somebody else.

The real reason they're more relatable is probably because their personalities were established before things went off the rails.

Contrast with Wanda, borderline Mary Sue, and Maggie who went from cold-blooded manipulator sleeper agent old lady "let me carefully explain you why you're wrong" to "YAY LOVE STRINGS AND FRIENDSHIP SIGNS!"

[DigoDragon]

Of the mancers, I have always found Jack and Sizemore to be the most interesting as viewpoint characters.

I'll agree. Definitely the best chemistry with Parson when discussing various war theories, which is interesting in Sizemore's case since he hates fighting but is pretty darn good at it.

I miss Bogroll.

Sizemore's probably my favorite mancer in the story, but that's probably because he's, well, down to earth and humble.

Ba-dum-tish.

[Aquillion]

The real reason they're more relatable is probably because their personalities were established before things went off the rails.

I think it's mostly just that there have been so many plot threads and characters that there hasn't been much time for characterization. An added problem is that it's often unclear to readers which characters are important or what we should be paying attention to.

[halfeye]

And for some reason, my attempt to post or even preview was blocked by a message saying that I need a minimum of 10 characters? Was it always like that?

Has been since I joined, before that I obviously don't know, but probably at least a bit.