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  1. - Top - End - #811
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Although in the other hand Charlie has the thinkmancer dish and the thinkmancers hate him for it.

    So perhaps the reason why we don't see much other croakmancers is precisely because they've been actively seeking to avoid contact with Wanda and her side!
    Jojo mentioned that all the Naughtymancers are on Charlescom's side and against Gobwin Knob's, so yeah, I'm guessing Wanda has a poor relationship with her colleagues.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Still one would expect to have met another side with a croakmancer by now, they should really be a boon in Erfworld. There's rarely a lack of bodies, so a croakmancer should have plenty to work with and be a massive boon.
    Their ability is kind of creepy, which leaves a bad taste in their would-be employers.

    Also, maybe its just because Wanda's personality is too crippled to use it properly, but from what we've seen so far, Croakamancy seems to be weirdly specialized. Its only known powers are mass producing cheap golems and casting curses. The former is a one trick pony. The latter sounds kind of cool, but the price is a bit high.

    It certainly has its uses, but I imagine even rulers that only care about winning probably prioritize other caster types higher.

  2. - Top - End - #812
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    Also, maybe its just because Wanda's personality is too crippled to use it properly, but from what we've seen so far, Croakamancy seems to be weirdly specialized. Its only known powers are mass producing cheap golems and casting curses. The former is a one trick pony. The latter sounds kind of cool, but the price is a bit high.

    It certainly has its uses, but I imagine even rulers that only care about winning probably prioritize other caster types higher.
    Still, the ability to use the same army twice without additional cost is a great force multiplier. The key problem is you cannot stockpile undead units, which does limit its use to ongoing warfare. It is additionally useful for rush invasions, since any defenders you croak can be used to attack the next outpost. It would create a runaway effect, if it were not for limited mana a single caster has.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  3. - Top - End - #813
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    Jojo mentioned that all the Naughtymancers are on Charlescom's side and against Gobwin Knob's, so yeah, I'm guessing Wanda has a poor relationship with her colleagues.
    So when will Charlie unleashed his necro squads?

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    Their ability is kind of creepy, which leaves a bad taste in their would-be employers.
    They seem to love the taste of thinkmancy mindraping every morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    Also, maybe its just because Wanda's personality is too crippled to use it properly, but from what we've seen so far, Croakamancy seems to be weirdly specialized. Its only known powers are mass producing cheap golems and casting curses. The former is a one trick pony. The latter sounds kind of cool, but the price is a bit high.

    It certainly has its uses, but I imagine even rulers that only care about winning probably prioritize other caster types higher.
    Shockmancers are pure nukers and healomancers are pure healbots yet both are in pretty high demand.

    Just think about it, instead of loading your tower with blasting spells, you could load it with necro spells!

    And if you negotiate right, you can probably get an huge discount just in return to giving the croakmancers a bunch of corpses you had no other use for anyway.

    The ability to get a valuable use from what's otherwise an useless resource is pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Still, the ability to use the same army twice without additional cost is a great force multiplier. The key problem is you cannot stockpile undead units, which does limit its use to ongoing warfare. It is additionally useful for rush invasions, since any defenders you croak can be used to attack the next outpost. It would create a runaway effect, if it were not for limited mana a single caster has.
    In particular the bit where Erfworld croakmancers must pick between cheaply animating lots bodies but they'll have pretty crappy stats or focus in only a few to get superior quality at the cost of numbers.

    Like the mass-uncroaking spell can get all the bodies in an hex moving at your command, but they'll only last about 3 turns so that's barely any time to even reach the next city.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  4. - Top - End - #814
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    From what we've seen, rulers and warlords native to erfworld seem to be exceptionally unwilling to explore what their casters (and casters in general) are capable of doing. They latch on to the first obvious thing the caster can do (like healing, creating dolls, speak to people at a distance) and not think any further. They seem to be even less willing to consider caster types that they don't have access to and what they could bring to the table. Charlie is of course the one exception.
    On the reverse, barbarian casters don't seem to actively advertise what they can do either, even though their existence literally depends on finding employment.
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  5. - Top - End - #815
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    In particular the bit where Erfworld croakmancers must pick between cheaply animating lots bodies but they'll have pretty crappy stats or focus in only a few to get superior quality at the cost of numbers.

    Like the mass-uncroaking spell can get all the bodies in an hex moving at your command, but they'll only last about 3 turns so that's barely any time to even reach the next city.
    There is actually a way around that but I do not think anyone actually tried to stockpile dead bodies - they do not go away if you move them and take them with you. The downside is, you need a way to transport your would-be army, but this should be solvable. Use some to cover you as you travel and keep the most fresh till the next big battle, where you can gather the next payload.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    From what we've seen, rulers and warlords native to erfworld seem to be exceptionally unwilling to explore what their casters (and casters in general) are capable of doing. They latch on to the first obvious thing the caster can do (like healing, creating dolls, speak to people at a distance) and not think any further. They seem to be even less willing to consider caster types that they don't have access to and what they could bring to the table. Charlie is of course the one exception.
    On the reverse, barbarian casters don't seem to actively advertise what they can do either, even though their existence literally depends on finding employment.
    Essentialy almost everyone in Erfworld plays the game as it was intended by the system designers. Something like an iconic fireball-throwing wizard in D&D 3.5 and healbot cleric - both can work and both are not using even a fraction of their potential.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  6. - Top - End - #816
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    From what we've seen, rulers and warlords native to erfworld seem to be exceptionally unwilling to explore what their casters (and casters in general) are capable of doing. They latch on to the first obvious thing the caster can do (like healing, creating dolls, speak to people at a distance) and not think any further. They seem to be even less willing to consider caster types that they don't have access to and what they could bring to the table. Charlie is of course the one exception.
    On the reverse, barbarian casters don't seem to actively advertise what they can do either, even though their existence literally depends on finding employment.
    It also seems that the casters don't really want to/are allowed to share all they are capable of doing with their rulers due to secrets and whatnot.
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  7. - Top - End - #817
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    A lot of the "trade secret" stuff casters do doesnt make sense to me. Free casters should be doing everything they can to make rands for upkeep. Sided casters should have a Duty to their side to be as effective as possible.
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  8. - Top - End - #818
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerusthegreat View Post
    A lot of the "trade secret" stuff casters do doesnt make sense to me. Free casters should be doing everything they can to make rands for upkeep. Sided casters should have a Duty to their side to be as effective as possible.
    Erfworld units are programmed with instincts and drives that serve no discernable purpose in their setting. For example, the sex drive.

    Casters happen to be programmed with guild/scholastic chauvinism in much the same way. Not because it makes sense in the setting, but because whoever thought that people ought to have a sex drive thought that wizards ought to have guilds and behave like guildsmen.

  9. - Top - End - #819
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Casters happen to be programmed with guild/scholastic chauvinism in much the same way. Not because it makes sense in the setting, but because whoever thought that people ought to have a sex drive thought that wizards ought to have guilds and behave like guildsmen.
    Yup, their holy book even outright says that casters are meant to keep secrets, especially the Thinkamancers.

  10. - Top - End - #820
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Rob finally announced his kickstarter. Over halfway into it. It's roughly on course to finish funded (was rocky at the onset)
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  11. - Top - End - #821
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Kickstarter failed to be funded and Rob will he relaunching it as soon as Kickstarter lets him (5 days is what his comment says)
    The Chaotic Evil Dungeon Master

  12. - Top - End - #822
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by balder
    If we can't pull it off, then Erfworld just goes away.
    It's rather amusing that he finally put a gun to the heads of his supporters.

    I am just absolutely stunned his 'team' couldn't put together a 2D comic once a week to get massively more money than his current Kickstarters are doing. Just freaking mind-boggling.

    I wish I could tap into his ardent supporters. I would love to do 10% of my job for 100% of my pay

  13. - Top - End - #823
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    I'm just waiting for a "if you don't pledge, this dwagon will die" picture now...
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  14. - Top - End - #824
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    I look at comics like Unsounded, with *amazing* art (and it has gotten significantly better since the comic began, which is impressive), done by a single person, and then I look at comics like Erfworld, where there's apparently a dozen or two people working on it, $3k+ on the line per update, and the 'team' is unable to generate even a weekly 1-2 panel update. And I ask 'why'.

  15. - Top - End - #825
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayson View Post
    I look at comics like Unsounded, with *amazing* art (and it has gotten significantly better since the comic began, which is impressive), done by a single person, and then I look at comics like Erfworld, where there's apparently a dozen or two people working on it, $3k+ on the line per update, and the 'team' is unable to generate even a weekly 1-2 panel update. And I ask 'why'.
    I know software teams of 1 or 2 people who make crazy things and teams of 12 that don't produce a damn thing
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  16. - Top - End - #826
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    At this point I'm not even sure why we have a comic thread. It's basically a panhandling thread to point out the latest time that he's begging for a handout. Does the comic even still exist anymore?

  17. - Top - End - #827
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    I'm just waiting for a "if you don't pledge, this dwagon will die" picture now...
    That's an empty bluff by now because we know that chances are Rob will kill dwagons anyway if the story does continue.

    Even barbarian warlords eat them for breakfast, also archers, archons, even the trees beat the crap out of them. Wood beats fire, sure. The only thing that dwagons can take on a straight fight is unled infantry, but then who can't do that?

    Then sometimes they just blow up your own army.

    It goes to show how badass Stanley is that he was a successful warlord despite handicapping himself with crappy dwagons. Although I guess the arkenhammer does make massing them easy and then they're at least flying zerglings that can carry more capable units.

    There's a reason why dwagons literally grow on trees yet nobody besides GK bothers collecting any.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerusthegreat View Post
    I know software teams of 1 or 2 people who make crazy things and teams of 12 that don't produce a damn thing
    "Work smarter, not harder". A few people being efficient will be a lot more productive than even an hundred poorly organized people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Not so long ago, I asked myself how many times Rob could dip back into the well before it dried up, and we are seemingly getting an answer MUCH sooner than expected. Honestly, I think that it's more about people aren't interested in the stuff for sale, rather than being unwilling to buy the things, but I don't have any constructive advice I could give as to what would work better.

    Quote Originally Posted by cervidal View Post
    It's rather amusing that he finally put a gun to the heads of his supporters.
    <Blinks>
    No. That can't be right, can it? *checks*

    Huh. No, that's pretty much exactly what he's doing. Damn, that is harsh. After everything that the community has given to him, he pulls out the nuke option. I'm a little offended by this. He's still making making a good thousand bucks plus per non-update (8 non-updates a month, minimum, means at least 8k a month) by his rain or shine patrons, and he'd make three times that amount if he just posted a damn update instead of these limited art projects. I refuse to believe that writing an update is really that much more work than these kickstarters. God damn, you know how many people DON'T get to make money for taking months/years off work? This is not the way to be thanking your supporters for their incredibly generous rallying.

    The thing that galls me most is that this is a flat out lie. Rob will NEVER officially shut down Erfworld, because he doesn't have any other way to make money for free. He needs to keep telling his readers that there is a roadmap to updates again, because he's screwed otherwise. What he probably means is that his current vision for Erfworld will not happen, and he will have to come up with an alternative.

    I take note of this bit in particular.

    But. It's still a bargain. Remember when Book 3 was going to be a novel unless we raised a budget to pay the artists about $65,000?
    Hey guys, remember that artist that I talked up during the kickstarter as being a professional that will raise the quality of Erfworld but we need to pay him a premium to do it? Remember how he turned out to be the least popular artist in the entire history of Erfworld (I liked him, but I am aware he is generally looked down on) and he ended up dropping the project before book 3 was finished?

    I do, in fact, remember that. Wonderful comparison there Rob. Just remind us how the last time you asked your fans to give deep for a guy that was massively talked up but ended up failing, and then tell us the exact same thing for the new team and assume we'll just believe you when you say, essentially, "this time will be different"? I got no reason to think that this new artist funding investment will do any better than the last one.

    Frankly, the art has never been all *that* good. I mean, it's not bad, by any means, but I don't read Erfworld for the the exceptional art, that's not really a selling point. I think Xin did, by far, the best of it but I've seen plenty of other comics that do perfectly fine jobs as well, without all this confusion.

    My advice? And this is my genuine advice, as someone that is still a fan despite my many, many, criticisms.
    If you, honest to god, can't make the money you feel you need, just bite the bullet, scale back, make the layoffs you need to, and go lower quality, like a normal business that's hitting hard times. Get rid of colour if you need to. Colour is nice but it's not NEEDED, we've seen plenty of non-colour pages in the text updates. Hell, I wouldn't care if the art was stick figure. I am a fan of OOTS, after all.

    Just accept that when Erfworld returns, the art will be with someone that is sub par. I know it's something you absolutely do not want to do, but there are no other viable alternatives (shutting down Erfworld is NOT a viable alternative because you know you need the money from your rain or shine patrons. It's the last move you'd ever want to make, in my opinion). Just accept it, cause you can't afford those artists now that it's going to be an additional 6 months of no new content. There isn't really a big number of new readers to the comic anyway to attract by having a beautiful current page. The one fortunate bit in all of this is that it's the start of a new book. If you are going to make jarring changes as to how you are presenting Erfworld, this is the time to do it.

    Besides, did you know that some people do really crappy art, and then when they publish the art, it gets redone? If you can't do the good art at this time, then do really crappy art, and then when you have saved up enough money from posting actual updates, you can hire a competent artist again, and redo everything that was done up until this point. This works especially well because patrons will be paying for both the bad art updates, and the good art updates, which is basically getting paid twice for the same content. I've seen some comic artists write a complete book with the bad art, and then redo the entire book again with their better art.

    One Punch Man is an amazing example of this in action, the original art (the book for that is called "One Punch Man (One)") is horrific, but the story was good enough to get a mind blowingly amazing redo, and the fans read BOTH works. So you could write book 5 twice and be paid for every update that way. I think that would probably work.

    I doubt having whatever your idea of sub-par art is, that it would significantly lose readers. On the other hand, the current artists are nothing but a drain, and if there is no way to tide them over until Erfworld can get running again, then what else can be done except either get bad artists or, as you say, make it so "Erfworld just goes away". I don't think you can afford the latter option though, and you owe it to the fans that have supported you during all this to make something work, so just bite the bullet.

    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-06-08 at 03:44 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #829
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    I doubt having whatever your idea of sub-par art is, that it would significantly lose readers. This idea of stopping everything in order to being a new level of artwork ISN'T WORKING.
    Well, it is kinda working, people still paying him him for non-updates.

    Rob would just like for people to pay him even more for some bits of 3D art with no story attached.

    Remember before the kickstarter spam, he set up the readers mining bitcoins for him, then he ditched that when it crashed.

    Rob's not gonna go "lower art quality" until he's tried every other money making scheme out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  20. - Top - End - #830
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Yea, you are right, I was a bit confused, but I think I understand the situation now. He'll be not updating regardless, he just needs money to tide his artists over, and he's currently not making enough money from not updating to do it, so he needs alternative revenue, which he can't get, assuming the kickstarters keep failing.

    If he can't retain the artists, he's threatening to shut down Erfworld, but the logical alternative is to actually just hire worse artists. Shutting down Erfworld is not a viable option, it's not. He needs the money it generates, badly. So, what other alternative is there except to fire the art team and hire sub-par replacements when Erfworld starts up again? I understand that this is an unbelievably bitter pill to swallow, but that's life.

    I changed my post to reflect that.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-06-08 at 03:51 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #831
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    It's even worst I believe.

    Rob's paying the current artists to produce a bunch of people/terrain/building 3D models.

    And then they leave before the comic actually restarts.

    Meaning that Rob won't be able to improvise anything once the current 3D artists leave. This will only work if he already the full story perfectly planned out to the last detail, every character and place that will be met, with zero room to maneuver or improvise.

    But this is the same author that ended up extending the story book by enough that it ended up fitting two books.

    So we're probably watching a slow-motion disaster right now. Rob's doubling down on his "make every 3D model we'll ever need and that will enable us to do all of book 5" plan, but I just don't see how it can realistically work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  22. - Top - End - #832
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Well, I'd say that he'd just need to abandon he 3D stuff altogether, and just chalk it up as a sunk cost. He was basically reaching beyond his grasp, and took on costs when he couldn't afford them. Maybe if bad thing two hadn't come up, then it could have worked out, but bad thing two DID happen, and now he's hitting the limit. I've invested money that went belly up and lost all value, and I know it sucks, the loss ruined a lot of my hopes and dreams, and I can't say I've fully recovered from it, the idea of investing again, after that loss, causes mental pain, I feel a bit sick to the stomach bringing it up right now. I just can't bring myself to do it, but I don't have any other choice but to accept reality that I spent a decade supporting a company that f*cked me over, and move on.

    Better to realize that sooner, rather than later. Like I said, switch to stick art if he needs to. Art is not going to gain or lose patrons at this point. *shrugs* Threatening to quit Erfworld instead is not only an empty threat but also just reeks of desperation. Maybe it will work though, we'll see with the next kickstarter, but if it doesn't then he needs to come up with a better plan than quit Erfworld, cause he still needs the money it generates.

    I just came up with an alternative way for him to get the money he needs. Instead of doing a kickstarter for collectables, make the collectables and have them as prizes for the rain or shine patrons that donate 10$+ per non update? I bet he could use that as a way to talk people into increasing their donations.

    Actually, here is ANOTHER suggestion, albeit one that has likely been basically said before but it bears repeating. Rob is locked on the idea that you need to give a normal Erfworld update to be paid, but that's not true, you just need SOMETHING. Some tiny benefit. Hell, I bet he could get away with a god danged Hampstard update. I mean, why not? Why not just make a side comic that is easy to create and use that as an alternative? He could do a Count Downer segment. Remember those? They were fancomics where the author just had a reader ask a question and Count Downer gave an answer. How SIMPLE would that be? (Answer: Very simple) Just give the readers SOMETHING.

    For God's sake, man, they desperately want to give you their money, all you have to do is just give them an excuse.

    Maybe if he had an actual benefit for being a patron, he could get a steady supply of money.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-06-08 at 05:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    The fact that the last kickstarter failed and had less than 300 dudes coughing out money (where there's over 2000 promising money for another comic) seems like a sign to me that people aren't that looking for any excuse to throw money at Rob, at least not anymore.

    It means that roughly 85% of the people who are willing to give money to Erfworld the comic aren't actually willing to give money for Erfworld anything. No wonder Rob's getting desperate. He may actually need to make a new comic to get that sweet cash! In 2D! The horror!

    Weren't there the pin-ups as a reward for patrons? Although seems like most recent one was at the end of April so even those seem to have dried up.

    Comic Countdowner was pretty awesome while it lasted, I particularly liked giant Stanley looming in the background now and then. Yet another great example of how basic art can still be pretty entertaining. But Rob's doubling down in "bestest art or no art".

    As for sunk costs, the author himself made it a central plot point in the "so be it alliance" sidestory. So is this a case of the healer that can't heal themselves? Or was it a subconscious cry for help all the way back?
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-06-08 at 05:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  24. - Top - End - #834
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Given how little sense it makes to not publish if you get $2985.95 per update at most twice a week, I think that number is conflated or a lie.
    The Chaotic Evil Dungeon Master

  25. - Top - End - #835
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    One thing to consider is that he's provably obligated to give a much larger portion of profits from the comic to his employees than from his kickstarter schemes.

  26. - Top - End - #836
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    One thing to consider is that he's provably obligated to give a much larger portion of profits from the comic to his employees than from his kickstarter schemes.
    I don't buy it. 1. Kickstarters have 8-10% fees on them which goes to nobody on the erfworld staff and 2. The kickstarter is officially to pay the staff. Now there's no accountability there, so he could be using it to put a down payment on a new car, but I doubt it makes more financial sense to run a kickstarter for (after fees) $4500 every 10 days (if it succeeds) than to post 2 text only game mechanics or other background info to make $5800 every 7 days.

    Someone raised the point that in all the updates of what the issues are, the script/writing has not been brought up at all. Except for Rob to say in his facebook update that he cannot do book 5 as a novel.
    The Chaotic Evil Dungeon Master

  27. - Top - End - #837
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Technically speaking, he makes closer to 2k, rather than 3k. Remember that 1k-ish is free money, that goes into his pocket every week, regardless of what he does.

    Therefore, the situation is more like

    Code:
    -Rob makes 2k per week.
    
    -Rob can make an additional 4,000$ per week if he does an update.
    OR
    -Rob can make an additional 3150$ per week if he does a successful kickstarter.
    (45k per 10 days. One week is 70% of 10 days)
    .
    That's a lot closer to the ballpark, and he does, in theory, a lot less work this way. Furthermore, 1k for doing nothing is probably on the low side. If he's already getting, say, 1.5k per non-update (3k per week), then doing an update drops down to an additional 3000$ per week, which would be less money than he could get for doing a kickstarter.

    I don't know how much money he makes from Rain or Shines, and I don't want to know either (because I would view that as a shaming tactic to bring other patrons to pony up), but I'm 90% sure that the math probably works out for him so that the kickstarter method is financially viable.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-06-08 at 09:13 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #838
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    Technically speaking, he makes closer to 2k, rather than 3k. Remember that 1k-ish is free money, that goes into his pocket every week, regardless of what he does.

    Therefore, the situation is more like

    Code:
    -Rob makes 2k per week.
    
    -Rob can make an additional 4,000$ per week if he does an update.
    OR
    -Rob can make an additional 3150$ per week if he does a successful kickstarter.
    (45k per 10 days. One week is 70% of 10 days)
    .
    That's a lot closer to the ballpark, and he does, in theory, a lot less work this way. Furthermore, 1k for doing nothing is probably on the low side. If he's already getting, say, 1.5k per non-update (3k per week), then doing an update drops down to an additional 3000$ per week, which would be less money than he could get for doing a kickstarter.

    I don't know how much money he makes from Rain or Shines, and I don't want to know either (because I would view that as a shaming tactic to bring other patrons to pony up), but I'm 90% sure that the math probably works out for him so that the kickstarter method is financially viable.
    Except for the fact that it's going to eventually drive people away and cost him money in the long run while just updating would have the opposite effect and build goodwill. There has to be some other benefit that we can't see. Unless people have been so generous for so long that he's actually deluded himself into thinking they'll do it forever.

  29. - Top - End - #839
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    Can you say they won't keep donating forever? I honestly don't get the attachment to keep donating, I personally decided to never donate another penny after the first kickstarter fell through (it was only 10 bucks but Erfworld is still the recipient of one of a very limited number of kickstarters I have backed, and if Rob had delivered I would have stepped up at least a few more times), but a lot of people get emotionally attached.

    I'll mention again Gone With The Blastwave, a comic that has been around for over a decade and has only 77 pages, TOTAL. His last update was December 18th, 2018. If there is any man that should have been abandoned by his patrons, it's this guy, and yet he is listed as getting 952$ per month. The guy has actually said, "give me money for doing nothing". Really pisses me off that people still give him money.

    You wanna talk about a guy that burned his fanbase? Look as Sinfest, his change in content DESTROYED the vast majority of his readership, and yet he's still currently making 1,438$ per month.

    Neither example makes anywhere near what Rob makes, but they are still respectable amounts when compared to the official patreon lists. It's honestly a little sad that a top notch creator like Howard Taylor, a guy that has NEVER missed an update since maybe the beginning of his comic, which was well over a decade ago, can only gather up 3,230$ a month.

    Clearly, there are many factors that go into how much money you can get on patreon, and update rate is probably not among the most important reasons.

    There's also the fact is that Rob's current dry spell is not the first he's gone through, and I don't think it's even the longest, and yet I don't recall ever seeing a massive drop in patrons from a lack of updates. Sure, there's been a drop from the high, which I think was around 3,400$ish at the top? That said, the vast majority continue to support him, and given the fact that there is a lot of sympathy due to his wife having cancer, many people would be loath to withdraw funding for any reason. I'm honestly more surprised by Rob starting to fail on his kickstarters, than I am with the idea that people will keep giving him money no matter what.

    In my mind, the only thing Rob could do that would really hurt his patron donations is to say that the comic is canceled, which is why I know that his threat to do so is an idle one.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2019-06-09 at 09:30 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #840
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    Default Re: Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

    The gravy train ending for Rob has been a long time coming all things considered. The fact it hasn't happened sooner is a wonder and we should all probably regret just how much the man's squandered in his pursuit to run his ship the way he wanted without anyone steering him to a more sensible business framework. The writing's been on the wall for a considerable amount of time. He's been through as many artists as he has been "books.: He's had a ton of kickstarter projects, failed to provide the things promised, taken more downtime than any other comic I can think....the list goes on.

    Rob showed long ago that the rot in his business starts with him. The fact has long since been made that there are better webcomics with fewer staff producing more consistent and on time strips out there. The move to 3D modeling wasn't the worst idea, insofar as it would give the team a library to draw models from and thus churn out a lot of comic strips. The issue however was never with the ability to produce a strip. How many threads were thrown taken up with discussion on Rob's backlog? The thing he continually assured readers he was producing when we know now that was never the case? Why would we expect him to have a backlog once modeling was done, when he couldn't do it before? Or refused to do it. Whatever the reason.

    Not to mention the fact that the 3D library is solving a problem of their own creation. The story doesn't need to explore all the crap Rob insists they explore. We don't need to see all these sides to tell a good story, no matter how loudly Rob proclaims it. There's also the fact that all of this new tech has a very large upfront cost with a learning curve. Neither of which the comic can support on top of Rob dealing with his wife's health and the numerous other "real bad, can't talk about it" crises that seem to plague the guy literally every other week of the year.

    Any sensible person would see these kickstarters for what they are. A quick cash grab in the midst of the final death throes of a webcomic that's long outlived its welcome. We could get into the artificial scarcity of the 3D models or the frankly scumlord tactics of churning one out every couple weeks with the added call of "support us or the whole thing's over". Rob had to predict diminishing returns. A yearly kickstarter doesn't look like a beggar on the street corner with an empty cup. A bi-monthly one? Absolutely does.

    The fact is, Erfworld died a long time ago and it's been on life support thanks mostly to the legion of very dedicated fans the story attracted. A better comic would have made sure to make itself worthy of that support. Rob didn't do that and Erfworld is going to die. Maybe not in the next month or two but the damage has been done. The end is here.

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