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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    So apparently a new category is being added to the Oscars: Outstanding achievement in popular film. Based on analysis, this is apparently the category for the blockbuster films, and other genres that don't normally get Oscar nods (horror, etc.).

    Have to agree with the writer of this story... This seems like a way for the Oscar committee to keep popular blockbuster films out of the Best Picture category.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    When was the last time a blockbuster was nominated for Best Picture? I honestly can't remember if it's happened since Return of the King.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    That seems fairly condescending.

    I suppose its intent is to make the Oscars more popular by having a category which regular movie-goers can be invested in. It's like having a new Olympic event for out-of-shape people because athletes are hard to relate to though.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2018-08-08 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Well, if the ratings trend continues they can just cancel the big ceremony in a few years and hand out the awards in a conference room in the local Hilton, with a press release most people will ignore as clickbait.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    I don't really see it.

    While essentially creating an 'audience award' seems superfluous, I don't understand the reasoning of this being made to keep popular films out of the 'Best picture' category, where only 'artsy' stuff is allowed. I mean, looking at 'Best Picture' since 1990, most of those were won by widely popular, commercially succesfull movies from all kinds of genres.
    Last edited by Iruka; 2018-08-08 at 03:09 PM.


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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Well, if the ratings trend continues they can just cancel the big ceremony in a few years and hand out the awards in a conference room in the local Hilton, with a press release most people will ignore as clickbait.
    I haven't watched the Oscars in years - so whatever - but who cares? Like, lots of organizations have internal recognition rewards without it being a bloated international media event.

    Granted, it's still a useful PR exercise for Hollywood - which still needs it as much as it did with the Fatty Arbuckle scandal apparently - but there's just so much media in general now that it's impossible to satisfy such a fragmented audience. Particularly when politics show up.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2018-08-08 at 03:23 PM.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iruka View Post
    I don't really see it.

    While essentially creating an 'audience award' seems superfluous, I don't understand the reasoning of this being made to keep popular films out of the 'Best picture' category, where only 'artsy' stuff is allowed. I mean, looking at 'Best Picture' since 1990, most of those were won by widely popular, commercially succesfull movies from all kinds of genres.
    Successful, yes. Wildly popular? Not sure if that applies. We're talking about the Blockbusters here, and I have to agree with Rogar, there hasn't been one of those since 2003.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    Successful, yes. Wildly popular? Not sure if that applies. We're talking about the Blockbusters here, and I have to agree with Rogar, there hasn't been one of those since 2003.
    Hm, I'll concede that the '90s skewed my perspective. Since 2003, I'd argue that Departed and Slumdog Millionaire might be in the blockbuster league but since 2010, I don't even recognize most of the movies.


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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    When was the last time a blockbuster was nominated for Best Picture? I honestly can't remember if it's happened since Return of the King.
    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    We're talking about the Blockbusters here, and I have to agree with Rogar, there hasn't been one of those since 2003.
    The Martian, in 2015 ($228 million domestic). American Sniper, in 2014 ($350 million domestic). Gravity, in 2013 ($274 million domestic).

    In 2010, Toy Story 3 ($415 million - the highest-grossing film of that year) and Inception ($293 million domestic).

    And in 2009, one of the biggest blockbusters of all time, Avatar ($750 million domestic).

    It's relatively common.
    Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2018-08-08 at 04:18 PM.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    That is an extremely clickbaity thread title.

    And I’m not much of a movie person, so that’s all I have to say about this.
    Last edited by rooster707; 2018-08-08 at 04:18 PM.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    I'm in favour of it, if they rename "Best Picture" to "Outstanding achievement in pretentious film" at the same time.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I'm in favour of it, if they rename "Best Picture" to "Outstanding achievement in pretentious film" at the same time.

    GW
    Well, by that reasoning they could rename the whole thing from The Oscars to The Pompous, Self-Fe- ya know, never mind, let's keep it G-rated.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    I think the story of how this category unfolds will depend on how the Academy defines eligibility. Presumably 'popular' has something to do with commercial performance, so you could group the pool out of box office results (domestic only one imagines, since this is an American award). A possible choice is requiring that a 'popular' film make a minimum of $100 million dollars at the domestic box office, but that will still bar certain films. For instance, in 2017, that would leave out John Wick: Chapter Two ($92 million). There were also only 33 films total that managed to make that much and it is difficult for even high-end horror films to crack that barrier. If you limited candidacy to the top 25 or 30 films of the year that's particularly restrictive, but will still allow the academy to snub blockbusters.

    For example, if you had to pick five nominees for this category out of the top twenty-five of 2017 you'd probably get:
    1. Wonder Woman
    2. It
    3. Thor: Ragnarok
    4. Logan
    5. Dunkirk

    Which, actually, isn't nearly as bad as I thought, and Dunkirk is the only double-counted one. Logan would probably win, and I think most of us would be fine with that.

    Doing the same thing for 2016 is...less promising:
    1. Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
    2. Finding Dory
    3. Hidden Figures
    4. Deadpool
    5. Moana

    2016 had a large number of high-grossing animated films with four in the top ten (amazingly Sing was the #10 movie of 2016) and a stunning 7 in the top 25 that distorts the pool. Deadpool probably deserves to win this one, but I struggle to imagine the Academy being that brave.

    Let's go for three and do 2015.
    1. Star Wars: The Force Awakens
    2. Inside Out
    3. The Martian
    4. The Revenant
    5. Mad Max: Fury Road

    That's even worse. With the exception of TFA - which only makes it do to its juggernaut status, all four of the others were nominated in other categories anyway. Mad Max would win, but this definitely supports the thesis that films like that would be hurt by this category. Mad Max: Fury Road was honored far better by receiving an actual Best Picture nomination than it would be by winning this category.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I haven't watched the Oscars in years - so whatever - but who cares? Like, lots of organizations have internal recognition rewards without it being a bloated international media event.
    They're bloated international media events because that's what the industry is--if it wasn't a self-indulgent media blitz, it would be like not serving alcohol at the award ceremony for a wine or craft beer competition.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    They're bloated international media events because that's what the industry is--if it wasn't a self-indulgent media blitz, it would be like not serving alcohol at the award ceremony for a wine or craft beer competition.
    Yeah, I only liked the Oscars when the hosts were humorous, and that hasn't been the case (for my tastes anyway) in a decade or more.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Maybe they want to distinguish between entertainment and art. I hope you'd all know what this means.

    I can only really speak for things I've seen and I won't bother trying to compare nominees to one another, so considering that for my example...

    Something like Jurassic Park and Requiem For A Dream are really two completely different types of movie. It takes skill to make a movie fun, but it also takes skill to give the movie an impact that lasts longer than it takes to eat all the popcorn.

    Maybe there's some confusion or dissatisfaction from their general audiences for that event from people who enjoy one of those categories of movies, but not the other?
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Back in the early 2000's, after they snubbed Beauty And The Beast an Lion King for best picture, they created Best Animated Movie. Since then we've seen hugh numbers of animated movies get snubbed cause they now all have to compete in this one category, and were put there by the admission of the academy voters cause they don't watch cartoons. (That's a quite from one of them the year The Boss Baby got a nomination.)


    This is them repeating that. At last, they can ignore the movies people actually got to see by ghettoing them into this one category.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Until 2016, the AMPAS (the committee who votes for the Oscar winners) was something like an average age of 63, 76% male, 94% white and overwhelmingly US citizens. There was a particularly high-profile protest by people such as Will Smith and Jada Pinkett-Smith who boycotted the ceremony that year, and the AMPAS were forced to take on a large number of new, more diverse members - they're now something like 40% female and 13% PoC.

    As such, I can't help but feel that this new proposal is just a a snobbish way of the old guard trying to maintain their control over what they see as being the "rightful" winners, giving them an excuse to dismiss popular films compared to "worthy" offerings for the Best Picture award by 'hiding' them in a new category. It's segregation, of a kind - an "the same but not equal" mentality.

    So I think that it just proves that we ought to remember more keenly: The AMPAS is a private committee of self-appointed judges who have no formal authority and any prestige they have is entirely illusionary. While I'm sure that winning any award is nice for a film maker, the Oscars represent no one but themselves and their own private opinions - they've never meant to reflect public preference.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Well, by that reasoning they could rename the whole thing from The Oscars to The Pompous, Self-Fe- ya know, never mind, let's keep it G-rated.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeerMug Paladin View Post
    Maybe they want to distinguish between entertainment and art. I hope you'd all know what this means.
    That it's a stab at them being utter snobs?

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    The only reason any blockbusters are nominated for best picture nowadays is because they doubled the number of nominees for best picture in 2009 to specifically allow nominating “popular” movies (to get viewers) with no intention of having them win.

    Might as well call a spade a spade and make a specific category instead.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    I have a counterproposal: an Oscar for movies about making movies. Let's be honest, you know that they aren't judged fairly. People in the commission see themselves in the characters and then go all like “oh this film is so deep, it really touches the viewer” and don't understand that it only works like that on people in their field of work.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I'm in favour of it, if they rename "Best Picture" to "Outstanding achievement in pretentious film" at the same time
    Further refinement:
    In addition to those two categories, and the existing Best animated feature and Best Short, add maybe one or two other categories to cover all major approaches to film, and have Best Picture be voted only from the winners of those categories. The voting to be done by the attending public to the event at the time and/or the viewers via text message.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Further refinement:
    In addition to those two categories, and the existing Best animated feature and Best Short, add maybe one or two other categories to cover all major approaches to film, and have Best Picture be voted only from the winners of those categories. The voting to be done by the attending public to the event at the time and/or the viewers via text message.

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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Are you suggesting that a cabal of upper-class socialites are not automatically the most qualified to know quality and to honestly award prizes based on an objective standard? Blasphemy!
    What do you expect, for them to actually watch the movies they vote on? Wealthy old people don't have that kind of time, ya know!
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Are you suggesting that a cabal of upper-class socialites are not automatically the most qualified to know quality and to honestly award prizes based on an objective standard? Blasphemy!
    Oh, no, no, I wouldn't dare make such pronouncement. They are most certainly the most qualified for the Outstanding Achievement in Pretentious Film. And I will defend their right to believe that such award is the most important one in the ceremony. To their faces, anyway.

    (I would pick a non-sarcastic bone with the idea that a popular vote is an objective standard, though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Oh, no, no, I wouldn't dare make such pronouncement. They are most certainly the most qualified for the Outstanding Achievement in Pretentious Film. And I will defend their right to believe that such award is the most important one in the ceremony. To their faces, anyway.

    (I would pick a non-sarcastic bone with the idea that a popular vote is an objective standard, though)

    Grey Wolf
    I wouldn't call it objective, but I think if you set up the voting structure right, you could establish a reasonable hierarchy of overall enjoyability. Actual filmmaking quality should require more of an objective examination than a popular vote, I agree.
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    Default Re: New Oscar category will actually HURT popular films?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Further refinement:
    In addition to those two categories, and the existing Best animated feature and Best Short, add maybe one or two other categories to cover all major approaches to film, and have Best Picture be voted only from the winners of those categories. The voting to be done by the attending public to the event at the time and/or the viewers via text message.

    Grey Wolf
    This isn't actually a terrible idea.


    Honestly, I'm surprised that they didn't call the category 'Best Genre Film'. Because I suspect that's part of the intent, get these silly genre films out of the running so that they can concentrate on the cinema....litera....'proper' films. Although I suppose that doesn't get the modern day bang bang films out as well.
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