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    Default Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

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    So, there was another Nintendo Direct about this game today, dropping a lot of new information about the game. And holy moly, they are turning this into a dream come true. A short summary of major things it showed off:

    - New Characters: Simon Belmont and King K. Rool.
    - New Echo (Clone) characters: Richter Belmont, Dark Samus, Chrom.
    - New Assist Trophies: Alucard, Zero, Shovel Knight, the Moon (from Majora's Mask).
    - Stages: there are 103 total, before counting the Final Destination and Battlefield variants of every stage.
    - You can turn off stage hazards for the first time in the franchise's history.
    - New Donk City Hall stage, which is a Delphino Plaza-style stage where a platform takes you to various areas as the fight goes on.
    - The Castlevania stage, which is of course Dracula's Castle, will feature a lot of bosses from the series, including Dracula himself.
    - Rathalos from the Monster Hunter series will be both a stage hazard boss and an Assist Trophy.
    - New "Stage Morph" feature, where you select two stages at the start and the stage will transform from one to the other mid-match.
    - A new option to have an actual super meter, similar to more traditional fighting games, which when filled lets you do a weaker version of your Final Smash.
    - A new mode called "Smashdown," where players compete in consecutive matches, and after each fight the characters that have already been used become unavailable, until all characters have been used.
    - New 3v3 and 5v5 modes where either each player can select a team of multiple characters that they'll play consecutively (ala King of Fighters, it sounds like) or multiple players can be assigned to each different character.
    - The game's total amount of music tracks is over 900. Not counting menu music and assorted sound effects it's still over 800.
    - A tease of a major new mode they're not talking about yet. (A new form of adventure/story mode, maybe?)

    And this is all on top of the previously-announced stuff from E3, such as that the game will have every character who has ever previously been in the series playable, plus Inkling, Ridley, and Daisy.

    Holy crap, I don't know how they keep finding all of these things to add to the game that are all such genuinely good ideas, and actually doing all of them rather than deciding they don't have the time/budget for it. I mean, hell, I'm not even interested in any of the new characters revealed so far personally, and most of the new characters that I would have liked to see have been shown to be assist trophies, but I'm still excited seeing all the other cool stuff they're doing with the game. Turning off stage hazards and the super meter for a final smash options sound amazing in their own right to me. About the only thing that's missing for this to really be the Ultimate, dream-come-true Smash game is for them to announce much more robust online play options that include a lobby system where you can select your preferred rules from among any of those normally available offline when creating the lobby. Give me that and this is automatically Game of the Year at that point as far as I'm concerned.

    So, all told, we're looking at a game that has:

    • 74 playable characters (76 counting Pokémon Trainer as 3) in the base roster, including everyone who was ever in past Smash games, with one more coming as free DLC and another five as paid DLC.
    • New characters include long-requested classics like Ridley, King K Rool, and Simon Belmont; newer faces like the Inklings, Isabelle, and Incineroar; and bonus "Echo" (clone) characters including Chrom, Dark Samus, Daisy, Richter Belmont, and Ken.
    • Many changes large and small to various characters' moves, such as Ganondorf receiving new smash attacks where he uses a sword and Link being updated to be based on his Breath of the Wild version.
    • Many tweaks to the gameplay, including dodge-rolls having less invincibility when used multiple times consecutively and the return of directional air dodges.
    • 103 stages, before counting the Omega (Final Destination) and Battlefield versions of every stage.
    • A new story mode called World of Light.
    • A new Challenge/collectibles mode called Spirits Mode, which connects to World of Light.
    • Classic mode with unique setups for each character.
    • Substantially improved options online, including lobbies that don't require fighting people on your friends list.
    • A lot of new options for versus mode matches, including the ability to turn off stage hazards, the "Stage Morph" feature that causes a fight to transition between two stages, a 3v3 and 5v5 mode, and an optional super meter for Final Smashes.
    • A new mode called Smashdown, where you play consecutive matches after which the characters you used become unavailable, until you run out of characters to play.
    • 59 assist trophies, almost half of which are new. New ones include Alucard, Spring Man, Rodin from the Bayonetta series, Rathalos from the Monster Hunter series, Shovel Knight, Zero, Knuckles, Guile, the Moon from Majora's Mask, and Akira from Virtua Fighter.
    • Over 900 music tracks. Over 800 even if you leave off menu music and assorted sound effects.

    Living up to the subtitle indeed.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2018-11-10 at 06:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    It looks fun. I like the Smash games as just a way to kill some time with some friends, so this looks like it will be an excellent addition to that. I'll probably spend a decent amount of time playing just as Simon/Richter to see how different they are, like I did in Smash 4 with Little Mac.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    snip.
    So hunter from monster hunter confirmed as another playable character? I find it very surprising that they'd include Rathalos, but not include a playable character from monster hunter... Could be a dual character ala ice climbers (hunter+palico).
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    So hunter from monster hunter confirmed as another playable character? I find it very surprising that they'd include Rathalos, but not include a playable character from monster hunter... Could be a dual character ala ice climbers (hunter+palico).
    Nope, no mention of a playable Monster Hunter character, just Rathalos as a boss/assist trophy. And given we know they're doing some third-party content for franchises that aren't getting playable characters (Bomber Man and Shovel Knight as assist trophies, for instance), I'd assume that Rathalos being revealed without a character reveal means there won't be one. Still, a very fun little extra inclusion. Smash at this point has got to be the biggest crossover series of all time with so many third-party franchises popping up in one way or another.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    I'm not too sure on that one. It could just be part of the agreements Nintendo has had with Capcom for their Mario/Link skins in the 3DS monster hunter games.

    Plus, Golden Sun characters have appeared as Assist Trophies for a bit, but that series hasn't been represented as playable characters.

    Also, the hill I will die on is that Waluigi can go take a hike and go away.

    Edit the second:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Smash at this point has got to be the biggest crossover series of all time with so many third-party franchises popping up in one way or another.
    The only thing I can think of being close are those Shonen Jump crossover games that have protagonists from all sorts of anime and manga fighting.
    Last edited by Jama7301; 2018-08-08 at 06:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Nope, no mention of a playable Monster Hunter character, just Rathalos as a boss/assist trophy. And given we know they're doing some third-party content for franchises that aren't getting playable characters (Bomber Man and Shovel Knight as assist trophies, for instance), I'd assume that Rathalos being revealed without a character reveal means there won't be one. Still, a very fun little extra inclusion. Smash at this point has got to be the biggest crossover series of all time with so many third-party franchises popping up in one way or another.
    It is worth pointing out that the Monster hunter stage is not shown as one of the 103 playable stages so it might belong to a new boss game mode or maybe some sorty or adventure mode.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jama7301 View Post
    Plus, Golden Sun characters have appeared as Assist Trophies for a bit, but that series hasn't been represented as playable characters.
    Actually, the one assist trophy from Golden Sun, Isaac, didn't appear in Smash 4, IIRC, just Brawl. Sadly the series is kind of dead at this point, after the failure that was Dark Dawn. Pity, Isaac's technically one of the only characters I'd be genuinely excited to see become playable in Smash that hasn't been revealed as an assist trophy already, but at this point I expect it's more likely because we won't see anything Golden Sun beyond maybe some trophies and a song, if that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jama7301 View Post
    Also, the hill I will die on is that Waluigi can go take a hike and go away.
    I have to agree. All of the Mario characters that are worth putting in are already playable - plus Daisy, now. Maybe when they do something with Waluigi besides use him as a filler character in the sports/party spin-offs he can be playable, but so far, that's all Nintendo seems to think is worth doing with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    It is worth pointing out that the Monster hunter stage is not shown as one of the 103 playable stages so it might belong to a new boss game mode or maybe some sorty or adventure mode.
    I thought that stage was that big plains one from Xenoblade? Would be surprised if they slipped up enough to show us part of that new mode they teased like that, when they could have just announced Rathalos as an assist trophy and saved the boss reveal for later if they wanted to.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I thought that stage was that big plains one from Xenoblade? Would be surprised if they slipped up enough to show us part of that new mode they teased like that, when they could have just announced Rathalos as an assist trophy and saved the boss reveal for later if they wanted to.
    That stage is the plains from the forest map from monster hunter ultimate...
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Actually, the one assist trophy from Golden Sun, Isaac, didn't appear in Smash 4, IIRC, just Brawl. Sadly the series is kind of dead at this point, after the failure that was Dark Dawn. Pity, Isaac's technically one of the only characters I'd be genuinely excited to see become playable in Smash that hasn't been revealed as an assist trophy already, but at this point I expect it's more likely because we won't see anything Golden Sun beyond maybe some trophies and a song, if that.
    If anything, Sakurai has shown he's willing to listen to the fans with Ridley and Chrom, so it's mostly a matter of getting enough people claiming Isaac for Smash.

    How old the game is not that important, Ice Climbers had just that one game in the NES after all.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    If anything, Sakurai has shown he's willing to listen to the fans with Ridley and Chrom, so it's mostly a matter of getting enough people claiming Isaac for Smash.

    How old the game is not that important, Ice Climbers had just that one game in the NES after all.
    Perhaps. But Golden Sun is niche enough that I wouldn't compare the amount of people who wanted to see Isaac to what Chrom, K. Rool, or especially Ridley had, and it's not the sort of very old classic like the Ice Climbers that they just seem to like to throw in a character or two from just for the fun of it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if it actually happens - Isaac was actually the character I submitted to the open ballot they did for Smash 4 DLC - but I'm not holding out much hope, not after they didn't even bother bringing back his assist trophy in Smash 4.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2018-08-12 at 10:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Perhaps. But Golden Sun is niche enough that I wouldn't compare the amount of people who wanted to see Isaac to what Chrom, K. Rool, or especially Ridley had, and it's not the sort of very old classic like the Ice Climbers that they just seem to like to throw in a character or two from just for the fun of it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if it actually happens - Isaac was actually the character I submitted to the open ballot they did for Smash 4 DLC - but I'm not holding out much hope, not after they didn't even bother bringing back his assist trophy in Smash 4.
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    Say does that mean we will Have Palutena Communicating with Snake or Snakes allies communicating to Palutena and Viridi on certain stages?
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    For some reason, I actually watched this thing. Anyone else notice the yellow and purple chairs in the background? Hmmm, I wonder..?

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Ive loved the Smash series since the 64, but i havent felt it was enough to buy a console for.

    Smash Ultimate though? I think this IS worth it. Ill be picking up a switch soon.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Smash 4 had DLC, so I wouldn't be surprised if anything that's missing showed up post launch, Isaac included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Say does that mean we will Have Palutena Communicating with Snake or Snakes allies communicating to Palutena and Viridi on certain stages?
    Wouldn't surprise me if they do both Snake's codices and Palutena's Guidance, and have at least one conversation apiece where there's some crossover. Maybe just one or the other, but either way, I'd bet on at least one conversation where the others butt in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromascope3D View Post
    Smash 4 had DLC, so I wouldn't be surprised if anything that's missing showed up post launch, Isaac included.
    That would surprise me, actually. I imagine if they were going to do more DLC for Smash Ultimate, it would be someone less niche who is more likely to sell to a greater portion of the audience. The main character of Fire Emblem: Three Houses getting in that way like Corrin did wouldn't surprise me, or new Pokčmon, or someone like Dixie Kong that is a relatively big name from a middle-tier mainstay franchise that they just haven't included yet. A character from a dead franchise like Golden Sun I think is either getting thrown in with the base roster or just not happening, unless he manages to win another DLC ballot somehow.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2018-08-13 at 05:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    That would surprise me, actually. I imagine if they were going to do more DLC for Smash Ultimate, it would be someone less niche who is more likely to sell to a greater portion of the audience. The main character of Fire Emblem: Three Houses getting in that way like Corrin did wouldn't surprise me, or new Pokčmon, or someone like Dixie Kong that is a relatively big name from a middle-tier mainstay franchise that they just haven't included yet. A character from a dead franchise like Golden Sun I think is either getting thrown in with the base roster or just not happening, unless he manages to win another DLC ballot somehow.
    Tru, but anecdotally, Isaac is the most requested character I've personally seen (that hasn't been confirmed already and isn't Waluigi) since they started taking requests with Smash 4, at least over here. I dunno what the priorities of the Japanese audience are. :p

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    I have to confess, I'm a little worried about content overload here. There's just so much being promised, and I've already heard that the stage selection screen is going to feature miniscule thumbnails since it's including every stage. I can't even imagine how they're going to try and balance the roster, or if they will try and balance the roster.

    That said, really digging the Final Smash meter option; the thing I never liked about Final Smashes was the "winner takes all" nature of Smash Balls. It tends to create a snowball effect if someone gets lucky or is really good at grabbing them. Letting everyone evenly charge up Final Smashes makes the game more about landing those Final Smashes, because if you whiff, your opponent still has theirs and is now advantaged.
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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Cloud gets double limit break gauges, which is neat.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    I'm really happy that a lot of things appear to be unlockables. I've come to really miss the concept of having to unlock extra material in games you play. These days, everything is already unlocked unless it's DLC so there is no excitement about playing a new character because you already have all the characters in the game.
    So yeah, looking forward to unlocking things through playing the game!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    I'm really happy that a lot of things appear to be unlockables. I've come to really miss the concept of having to unlock extra material in games you play. These days, everything is already unlocked unless it's DLC so there is no excitement about playing a new character because you already have all the characters in the game.
    So yeah, looking forward to unlocking things through playing the game!
    I recall this being one of the major problems with the 3DS Smash Bros. There were around a dozen character unlocks, a handful of stage unlocks, and then that was pretty much it. Given how much unlocking stuff was a feature of the previous games, the lack of content was a pretty big disappointment. Looking at the Wii U version, it seems like there were unlockables there. Buuuuut...that would have meant buying a Wii U, so....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I recall this being one of the major problems with the 3DS Smash Bros. There were around a dozen character unlocks, a handful of stage unlocks, and then that was pretty much it. Given how much unlocking stuff was a feature of the previous games, the lack of content was a pretty big disappointment. Looking at the Wii U version, it seems like there were unlockables there. Buuuuut...that would have meant buying a Wii U, so....
    I don't know about unlockables on the 3DS version, but the Wii U had no unlockable characters.
    It did have unlockable move variants though, which was pretty cool.

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Walking the unlockable line is tricky, though.

    On the one hand, unlockable stuff is a great achievement and incentive to keep playing. I remember older versions of Smash where I worked for hours to unlock various characters.

    On the other, though? Smash is a social game. You play it, ideally, with friends. (Or in a tournament, hey, do you.) And there's a decent chance that, in your circle of friends, one or two of you have the game, and the rest play it with them.

    Now you have a problem. See, in order to unlock everyone's favorite characters, ("Hey, why isn't Meta Knight unlocked?") you need to have played the game. For hours. And if it's your game, you're basically the only one getting those hours of play experience.

    Let's say you grab some barrels of freeze-dried food, call in your office with the plague, and sit down to play your game for a week straight or until you have absolutely everything unlocked, whichever comes first. At the end of that time, you take several showers, call your friends, and invite them over to play your fully-unlocked Smash game. Who's going to win every single game? Who's going to absolutely dominate? Is it the friends who just showed up to play? Or the obsessed completionist who just spent a week straight in unwashed boxer shorts grinding this game until he knew every possible trick?

    It takes some of the fun out, when your friends show up for a fun crazy game, and one player is able to utterly own the field like that, is my point.
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    Well I think it's something we think because we're all old and have jobs and responsibilities.
    But from the viewpoint of children or teenagers who have free time and can hang out with each other often.
    Every hour they put it Smash together is an hour in which they unlock characters together.
    That might be Nintendo's angle there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Well I think it's something we think because we're all old and have jobs and responsibilities.
    But from the viewpoint of children or teenagers who have free time and can hang out with each other often.
    Every hour they put it Smash together is an hour in which they unlock characters together.
    That might be Nintendo's angle there.
    But not all unlocks are done in versus, are they? I mean, if they are, I'm sold. But I remember versions of Smash where the unlock condition was "beat this level" or "do this thing" or somesuch, frequently in solo play.

    Sure, if it's just a case of "X hours spent in versus mode," that's fun for everybody. Except where everybody doesn't have their favorite character unlocked yet. But those guys are jerks.

    Because they play Meta Knight.
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    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

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    Jun 2018

    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Gonna have to admit I don't actually know how unlocks are made. I do remember in Melee however that most characters could be unlocked either through time played in versus or through single player games, although some could only be unlocked through versus.
    I'm reminded in particular of Mewtwo. It actually scared the crap out of my brother and I when the 'a new challenger approaches' screen appeared because we had no idea Mewtwo was in this game.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    CarpeGuitarrem's Avatar

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    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Walking the unlockable line is tricky, though.

    On the one hand, unlockable stuff is a great achievement and incentive to keep playing. I remember older versions of Smash where I worked for hours to unlock various characters.

    On the other, though? Smash is a social game. You play it, ideally, with friends. (Or in a tournament, hey, do you.) And there's a decent chance that, in your circle of friends, one or two of you have the game, and the rest play it with them.

    Now you have a problem. See, in order to unlock everyone's favorite characters, ("Hey, why isn't Meta Knight unlocked?") you need to have played the game. For hours. And if it's your game, you're basically the only one getting those hours of play experience.

    Let's say you grab some barrels of freeze-dried food, call in your office with the plague, and sit down to play your game for a week straight or until you have absolutely everything unlocked, whichever comes first. At the end of that time, you take several showers, call your friends, and invite them over to play your fully-unlocked Smash game. Who's going to win every single game? Who's going to absolutely dominate? Is it the friends who just showed up to play? Or the obsessed completionist who just spent a week straight in unwashed boxer shorts grinding this game until he knew every possible trick?

    It takes some of the fun out, when your friends show up for a fun crazy game, and one player is able to utterly own the field like that, is my point.
    Also, there's the competitive angle. Every unlockable character is another one that needs to be taken care of on every single Switch that you use to host a tournament, because you have to give everyone access to the full roster of playable characters.

    Plus, y'know, "Play as all these characters, but in order to foster a sense of pride and accomplishment, you need to grind out these characters in gameplay."
    Ludicrus Gaming: on games and story
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Mar 2012

    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    "Play as all these characters, but in order to foster a sense of pride and accomplishment, you need to grind out these characters in gameplay."
    Well remember this the internet TODAY. Before it was like:
    "Hey buddy you like those 30 characters right?....PSYCHE WE HAVE 20 MORE!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fralex View Post
    A little condescending
    That pretty much sums up the Scowling Dragon experience.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zevox's Avatar

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    Default Re: Super Smash Bros: Ultimate - Living up to the subtitle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromascope3D View Post
    Tru, but anecdotally, Isaac is the most requested character I've personally seen (that hasn't been confirmed already and isn't Waluigi) since they started taking requests with Smash 4, at least over here. I dunno what the priorities of the Japanese audience are. :p
    Your impression of how heavily he's requested is higher than mine then. As well as your impression of Waluigi's - since when does he have a serious fanbase, as opposed to the occasional random troll who says they'd like him in?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    I have to confess, I'm a little worried about content overload here. There's just so much being promised, and I've already heard that the stage selection screen is going to feature miniscule thumbnails since it's including every stage. I can't even imagine how they're going to try and balance the roster, or if they will try and balance the roster.
    Eh, balance has always been kind of a joke in Smash. Especially because, perhaps more so than even more traditional fighting games, balance for competitive play is completely different than balance for casual play. I honestly don't think the designers themselves know or care enough about competitive play to balance it for that, and most people won't care about balance at a casual level unless someone is blatantly ridiculous even in a beginner's hands, which I don't think we've had before. Maybe early Little Mac, who seemed to cause a lot of frustration when Smash 4 first came out, but that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    I'm really happy that a lot of things appear to be unlockables. I've come to really miss the concept of having to unlock extra material in games you play. These days, everything is already unlocked unless it's DLC so there is no excitement about playing a new character because you already have all the characters in the game.
    So yeah, looking forward to unlocking things through playing the game!
    Ugh, I'd forgotten about that. I'm very much the opposite, that's the one thing that's been announced about the game that I genuinely dislike. Not looking forward to spending the first however many hours with the game jumping through hoops in order to unlock the basic content I want to play, probably by playing some parts of the game I'd otherwise prefer to ignore. That's the sort of thing that I wish would just die out entirely and no longer be a thing we need to worry about in modern games, personally.
    Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!

    "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

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