Help me build my very first Wilder (to actually play)....because I have to ...

[GrayDeath]

Funny title, yes.

We found our local group has one weekend free at the same time for the first time since forever. Sow e`re going to do a Weekend game.

As the GM has little time to prepare, he gave us a list of 5 classes, and let us roll which one we would use (toa void the usual long long decision making^^).

I got the Wilder.

Now I never actually played one (always thought them too limited), so I thought I`d ask the forum:

The other CHaracters are a Barbarian (the player was lucky, he knows his shtick in mmelee), a Dragonfire Adept, a Rogue and a Bard (that player also never played his rolled class before, but he likes support stuff, so it should be fine).

We are allowed to use maximum one Prestige class, no other classes mixed in, no traits, no flaws, no cheese, Pointbuy 40pts, and up to one LA +1 Template (normal buyoff,e rgo free).

We start at Level 9.

Go wild (no pun intended^^)!

Deadline is this Friday around nowish.

[jdizzlean]

if dragon mag is allowed, there is a human variant called Athasian Humans that is just bonus powers and pp as you level up


this isn't a whole lot of help, but i very briefly considered playing a wilder, so there is some info on this char sheet for it, including an ACF

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1120019

there's also always kalashtar from races of eberron i think that gets an extra pp per character level, so that can help out as well.

wilder's just get less powers, but i've always thought that the wild surge ability is a great mechanic and equalizer, and really just embraces the ROLL playing aspect of D&D

there's a fairly decent handbook on wilders here as well:
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1355.0

[sleepyphoenixx]

You'll definitely want the Educated Wilder ACF. That's a no-brainer since Volatile Mind sucks.

You'll also have to decide on a playstyle because you don't have the powers known to diversify.
Wilders function well as either blasters or constructors since both require few powers to set up, leaving you more room to pick up utility powers like Dimension Door, Energy Adaption and so on.
A psionic gish is also possible but far more difficult to squeeze all the powers you want into. And probably worse off than a Psychic Warrior.

Basically you'll be limited to doing one thing only in combat unless you spend a lot of feats on Expanded Knowledge, and even then you're often better off picking up utility powers.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

An Athasian human wilder with the educated wilder ACF (both noted above) would definitely be my choice. Note that Athasian human abilities are in addition to the feat, skill points, and humanoid [human] features of normal humans. And they also gain the [psionic] subtype regardless of what their class(es) might be.

Could you use a variant wilder, maybe? Since psychic enervation gets worse as you level in wilder, it's generally a good idea to either use a variant wilder class that actually improves your ability to resist enervation, or to PrC out ASAP, to prevent you from spending all of your rounds enervated. That, or find ways to mitigate enervation as much as you can.

Soul manifester is a decent choice, for the reasons listed here. You might also consider specializing in one of your few powers known, such as the 3.5 constructor, or maybe taking a class that can save you powers known for various effects, such as crystal master.

[Calthropstu]

I am playing one now.
Going off the top of my head I believe you have 5 power choices.
Depending on whether you are playing 3.5 or pathfinder you will have either 3 feats or 5. Either way:
Use a feat to get expanded knowledge, pick up Astral Construct
Choose the following powers:
Energy missile (precision)
Energy burst (area blast)
Mind thrust (solo attack)
Ego whip (to attack something other than hp)
And fold space (to get out of sticky situations)
Your other feats I suggest light armor proficiency and empower power.
If pathfinder grap the 2 astral construct boosting feats so you get an extra menu selection AND get more menu options.
This allows you to cover almost all your bases. For items:
Headband +4 cha
+2 chain shirt
Cloak of resistance +3
And some misc items to suit your play style.

[thorr-kan]

Here's the stub of the wilder build I monkeyed with a few weeks ago. You're not using flaws, so that limits you some what. I don't have any suggestions on how to adjust for the lack of feats at 1st levele.

Spoiler: Shifter ACF Wilder Face

Show

Shifter (truedive), using the first level wilder (egoist) ACF, the second level Mantled Wilder ACF (Creation mantle), and fifth level Educated Wilder ACF.

Feats: Shifter Senses, Skin of the Construct, and Psycrystal Affinity.

Flaws: Choose two; need the feats! Noncombatant and Frail.

Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Sense Motive; Autohypnosis, Concentration; spread some points around Listen, Spot, Knowledge (psionics)

Powers: Mantled Wilder means you have to choose the mantle's powers as soon as possible, so start with Astral Construct. Egotist and Educated Wilder will expand your options. Plunder other lists at will!

[daremetoidareyo]

Psiforged body warforged is a great way to go because of the free armor, and the ability to treat yourself as a confidence crystal. If you have a bonus feat at first level, you can pick up another warforged feat for bigger armor (adamantine body).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psiforged body warforged is a great way to go because of the free armor, and the ability to treat yourself as a confidence crystal. If you have a bonus feat at first level, you can pick up another warforged feat for bigger armor (adamantine body).

For most characters*, I'd rather go with the dragonborn template, get rid of the armored body, and just buy armor.




*For almost anyone that isn't a monk, basically. Or a character using their slam attacks like there's no tomorrow.

[daremetoidareyo]

For most characters*, I'd rather go with the dragonborn template, get rid of the armored body, and just buy armor.




*For almost anyone that isn't a monk, basically. Or a character using their slam attacks like there's no tomorrow.

You have to blow feats on armor then. Although for a Wilder, what are the penalties for not having an armor proficiency? Will they really affect the Wilder?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You have to blow feats on armor then. Although for a Wilder, what are the penalties for not having an armor proficiency? Will they really affect the Wilder?

At mid-to-high levels, spending 25 gp per day on power stones of inertial armor will (potentially) blow the AC bonus of even extremely high-AC magical full plate out of the water, especially if you use your own power points to manifest it and wild surge the crap out of it. Use a mithril chain shirt for all of your special armor abilities and rely on the very cheap power stones for your AC. Plus, if your Dex is good, you can have a decent touch AC, as well (not to mention a sky-high incorporeal touch AC).

Or if you have a psionic companion in the party (including a psicrystal with Hidden Talent), you can manifest it from their powers known in the same way, without spending gp.

[Rebel7284]

Are power link shards allowed? If yes, Kalashtar all the way! Start the game with as many of them implanted as you can and enjoy overchannel to over 9000! (More like 20+ pp)

[noce]

Draconic template for +2 str, +2 con, +2 cha comes to mind, assuming you're going gish.

[Jack_Simth]

Get Psychic Reformation. It lets you change powers known. Yes, there's an XP cost attached (assuming 3.5), but it's relatively minor.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Lords of madness has the quick recovery feat for helping to deal with enervation. Saving throw is kind of stiff but it's better than nothing.

Oh, and since you're gambling when you use wild surge anyway, anarchic initiate can amp it even further (if it doesn't nerf the shot).

[ff7hero]

One poster mentioned it offhand, but as a Wilder fan, I've got to endorse Hidden Talent. It's basically a bonus Expanded Knowledge with bonus PP. Astral Construct is my go to pick with it, it's such a versatile power, you really can't go wrong. Educated Wilder is also great. Basically, do whatever you can to increase your Powers known.

Talk to your DM about Psicrystals. A certain interpretation of RAW allows them to get feats (they have an Intelligence score and Hit Dice, but it is a grey area). If they can get Feats, you can get a lot of mileage out of having them take Hidden Talent/Expanded Knowledge and using the manifest-from-another quirk of Psionics. If you can squeeze Vigor and Share Pain into your build, your Psicrystal can also help improve your staying power.

I wouldn't recommend the laundry list of offensive Powers that another posted listed above. Crystal Shard and Ego Whip are usually enough to get by after you've created an Astral Construct, which will be your main source of consistent, PP-economic damage. There's a few ways to mitigate Psychic Enervation, the Handbook upthread probably covers them better than I could, though.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Talk to your DM about Psicrystals. A certain interpretation of RAW allows them to get feats (they have an Intelligence score and Hit Dice, but it is a grey area).

Err... No it isn't. It isn't grey at all. It's extremely clear; psicrystals gain HD, explicitly. They aren't mindless. All non-mindless creatures gain feats based on their HD unless otherwise noted. The default psicrystal entry even has its 1st level feat listed.

The only "certain interpretation" is a common verbiage read-through of what the psicrystal entry says, as well as the same in regards to creatures gaining HD. Any other interpretation is demonstrably incorrect, though the DM could always Rule Zero it so they don't get feats and ability score increases.

All of the above apply to animal companions and paladin mounts too, incidentally, so it's not exactly without precedent.

[ff7hero]

Err... No it isn't. It isn't grey at all. It's extremely clear; psicrystals gain HD, explicitly. They aren't mindless. All non-mindless creatures gain feats based on their HD unless otherwise noted. The default psicrystal entry even has its 1st level feat listed.

The only "certain interpretation" is a common verbiage read-through of what the psicrystal entry says, as well as the same in regards to creatures gaining HD. Any other interpretation is demonstrably incorrect, though the DM could always Rule Zero it so they don't get feats and ability score increases.

All of the above apply to animal companions and paladin mounts too, incidentally, so it's not exactly without precedent.

I've had a DM tell me that my Psicrystal was gaining Construct HD so it didn't get skills or feats. I wasn't saying I didn't think it should work, just that some DMs (at least one, from my experience, and not a bad DM, either) wouldn't allow it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I've had a DM tell me that my Psicrystal was gaining Construct HD so it didn't get skills or feats. I wasn't saying I didn't think it should work, just that some DMs (at least one, from my experience, and not a bad DM, either) wouldn't allow it.

Constructs gain feats like everything else does. The only reason most construct-type creatures don't is because they're typically mindless. Any construct that isn't mindless would gain them just fine.

ie, your DM was wrong.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If they can get Feats, you can get a lot of mileage out of having them take Hidden Talent/Expanded Knowledge and using the manifest-from-another quirk of Psionics.

Not really. Psicrystals could conceivably take Hidden Talent, but since they have no power progression beyond that they'll never qualify for Expanded Knowledge.
What they can do (and the reason that so many DMs don't want to have psicrystals get feats imo) is take Metapsionic feats that you can then use with Feat Leech to leave your own feats free for Expanded Knowledge.

I've had a DM tell me that my Psicrystal was gaining Construct HD so it didn't get skills or feats. I wasn't saying I didn't think it should work, just that some DMs (at least one, from my experience, and not a bad DM, either) wouldn't allow it.

Constructs generally don't get feats because they're non-intelligent, not because they're constructs. So your DM is wrong in this case.
You can of course houserule it, but the RAW is as clear as it can be. Psicrystals get feats, same as any other intellient creature.

[GrayDeath]

Thank you all!

I ahve decided on a Kalashtar Wilder with Educated Wilder, focussing on Astral Cosntruct and movement Pwoers for now.
Keeping the "Steal/lborrow powers form others" in the can for now, as the game wont likely involve much other psionic stuff, and its a BIT cheesy (and only days of play, sigh^^)

Lets see how it palys (not going to be on in all likelineses for the LOOONG game weekend^^).

[thorr-kan]

Thank you all!

I ahve decided on a Kalashtar Wilder with Educated Wilder, focussing on Astral Cosntruct and movement Pwoers for now.
Keeping the "Steal/lborrow powers form others" in the can for now, as the game wont likely involve much other psionic stuff, and its a BIT cheesy (and only days of play, sigh^^)

Lets see how it palys (not going to be on in all likelineses for the LOOONG game weekend^^).

Let us know how it goes!

[GrayDeath]

Ah, sorry, forgot (it was aver yloong weekend^^).

It went reasonably well until we began to run into encounters in too tight spaces, where my Focus on Astral Construct and mobility began to show its flaws.

The Character died very shortly before the end, to an Adult BLack Dragon that betryed us (we had temaed up with it to kill the actual Big Bad....well, that could hav egone better^^).

Still, even if it was a more clearly focussed character than I usually use, it was fun.

[thorr-kan]

No worries; thanks for the update!

You made it most of the way. Glad it was a fun character.